It's kind of a shame that an interesting world as the DB world has been so confined to a small amount of stories

[Jord]

When you look at other franchises, they have expanded a lot in various forms. Not every expansion is successful but there are plenty of good examples.

Star Wars has had an completely expanded universe, various novels/shows/games not focused on the main characters, but just as gripping. The Jedi Knight games were fun, as was Jedi Survivor. Andor got great reception as well. SW has Galaxy's Edge, the "Star Wars land" in some of the Disney Parks, where you can walk around in basically the Star Wars world.

Harry Potter has an amazing world as well, expended on with Fantastic Beasts, the extremely successful Hogwarts Legacy game and the theme park sections in the US parks as well as the recent Epic Universe Ministry of Magic expansion. Of course they're going back to the well with the upcoming live-action series but its safe to say there has been a fair amount of content that relies on the world the HP books and films build that didn't relied on Harry and his buddies.

Both SW and HP have a lot of immersive options for players/readers/viewers to get to experience the world in new ways.
DB has a similar interesting world, in ways comparable to both and we just got cartoons, comic books and video games focused on Goku and friends. Perhaps the most interesting thing in regards to world building is DBO, which was unfortunately limited. A proper game like that, where you can train in various styles and as various races, like in DBH could be kind of like Hogwarts Legacy, but on a galactic level with different planets and such. There are so many possibilities with it.

As far as theme parks go, I know they're building one in the Saudi region but we can only judge it when it's done. To say it would live up to Disney or Universal's level would be a boast. I've been to the Jump indoor theme park in Ikebukuro and while small, it does prove how well DB can work in a theme park setting with cool staff costuming, "props" and such. I know there have been stage shows in Japan with DB characters as well, but from what I've seen, they looked kinda goofy. You'd think that when DB got big with Western audiences, TOEI would strike and allow for more than just rereleases and video games. Actual rides at Universal would hit big.

Heck, even the MCU, which is far more recent, has done well in regards to theme parks and such.

[The Dark Knight]

The original manga has 10 stories, starting from Pilaf all the way up to Buu.
DB had 3 filler arcs.
Z's movies and two filler arcs are 15 additional stories.
The Hatchyack OVA is another one.
GT has 4 stories (the 3 main arcs & the TV special).
Modern DB has Super's 9 stories, Daima, the 2008 special, and Heroes' 5 stories.

That's 49 altogether, so DB is by no means confined to a small amount of stories. If you mean good DB, then yes, it's pretty much confined to the original manga, with a very small handful of exceptions here and there. I am not someone who thinks a franchise should be milked into oblivion like the examples you mentioned, where it's all about quantity over quality, so I would've preferred if DB had even less stories than what we have now, not more.

[JulieYBM]

I kind of just shrug my shoulders. You're not going to see me turning down a new good story and ultimately it doesn't really matter in the long run if new stories keep getting pumped out. There's no stopping it, even if we topple capitalism at last. People will continue to put out new stories that they want to see, whether it's for profit or not.

I very much expect Dragon Ball to go the way of Big Two comics and be spun-off into infinity. We've all got several more decades left in us, so it's inevitable that we'll see it happen. We could have been having this conversation thirty or forty years ago and we're definitely going to be having it in thirty or forty years' time, too.

I think it does us all more good in the long run to think about, well, the long run. Ignore what you don't like and like what you do like. Not every little thing needs to require us having opinions on them, after all.

[angeldreamZ004]

I agree that would be cool to see the DB world explored like that, but while I don't consume, I'm well of aware of what series such as Stars Wars and Marvel did, and I don't feel well about them as I see many people complain that they milked these franchises with a lot of low quality content.

So I personally prefer to only have one-off projects done with that purpose (like Xenoverse 3) instead of making several content with that intent. Have a single movie, anime, manga or game do that in a complete format every 3 or 4 years that will be good in the long term.

A big franchise I like to compare with constantly is Pokémon, from the Pokémon media you have anime, movies, games and manga. And then there is sub category with minor games, animations and spin-offs. The animations always follow their own direction, and the games as well, then the manga sometimes adapt the anime and the games, but also have their own stories.

With Dragon Ball you'll see something similar, the anime went in its own direction with GT. The movies had no tie to the manga, and several games too.

The problem with Dragon Ball in my view, and which I believe may be the reason for your feeling, is not exactly it being confined to "a small amount of stories", but rather being confined to "the same stories", in other words "the amount of official works by Toriyama"

They like to highlight, prioritize or mostly expose us to things that he worked on, and when there's no involvement from him, they like for the new content to revolve around what he did. Examples.

Instead of delivering the story made by Toyotaro already (Moro arc), they decided to prioritize Daima first, which he got involved, and remaking first 3 Super arcs which also worked on.
Xenoverse 3 is presented as heavily Toriyama-centric game, with only characters created by him showing up so far, and the world and other things were said to have big involvement from him as well.

Other projects despite not having his involvement, revolve around the things he created.
The big majority of the games were about retelling his manga (though mostly Raditz-Boo only)
Xenoverse 1 and 2 did the same thing but with a few new original content and characters, and Toriyama designed some of the characters they used as main villains.
FighterZ used Z era characters and settings for a new story with only one (or two) new character, designed by Toriyama.
Legends does loose retellings of Z and Super arcs, while also using Old Movies and GT characters, but prioritize the characters Toriyama created for the original manga and the modern movies and anime. And the 3 new original characters were designed by Toriyama.
Kakarot covers Z, later part of the first anime, Beerus, Golden Freeza, Daima, Android 21, Mira and Towa shows up. The Bardock story is technically not from him but the character does appear with that design in his manga so...
Sparking Zero story modes covers Z and Super only.
Super Divers if I'm not wrong has been doing the same thing as well, but with GT and Old Movies included I think.

(Also, you mentioned DBO. Guess it, had Tori involved as well.)

What I'm trying to say basically is that the Dragon Ball franchise relies too much on its creator and his creations, and almost everything else has to be heavily derivative from stuff that he worked on, this being the reason it gives the feeling that it's confined to small amount of stories.
I believe the furthest the franchise managed to stray from that pattern was with GT and Heroes, and maybe Toyotaro's two arcs for the Super manga.
Heroes I think was very clear attempt of a "Pokemonalization" as you had original characters as protagonists, a bunch of new original characters as well being villains or playing a role in the stories with new settings, while Toriyama's characters returned through time travel but also mainly through collectible cards as if they were pokémon and you the trainer.

The thing with Pokémon though is that it didn't need to rely on its creator(s) to expand and be successful in other areas, yeah Game Freak is kind of a Toriyama for TPC and Nintendo, but whathever it's done with the IP, whether it's a mainline game, a spin-off, a new anime, a new movie, it doesn't matter, it's important for them to expose us to it because it's Pokémon.
Dragon Ball has done the opposite, it's important for them to expose us to new content because it had Toriyama's involvement, and if there was no Toriyama, they prioritize the characters and content created by him.

I think it's maybe the biggest problem with this IP now. Pokémon originated from Game Freak which started as a independent team, then they evolved when working with Nintendk and the franchise also evolved alongside them later on until it became the giant that is nowadays, that much beyond the recognition of the studio by people, and everything becomes popular because it's Pokémon.

Dragon Ball for them is popular for CCT and Shueisha because it's Toriyama, who was just one simple man who was just another children's comic creator doing his own manga, then started to be treated as some kind of deity. This is complicated, because Shueisha, Toei and Bandai expanded the franchise to give it a Pokémon-like treatment, but the series itself is essentially a Kirby-like series (no offense to that series as I am kind of a fan of it after all but it operates nothing like Pokémon)
And even the Kirby series itself actually, despite being a more simple, intimate, linear IP, managed to evolve beyond the talent of Masahiro Sakurai, so every new release matters regardless of who's working on it, because it's Kirby. Sakurai only returns to work in a few games (I think would've been the ideal for me in the revival era of DB, follow a linear release of new stories, each one made by different artists, Toyotaro, Naho Oishi, Toriyama himself returning from time to time, not for every story)

What Dragon Ball does? Decides to stop with the manga because its creator passed away, and the one who should be the successor is kept inside the fridge for indefinite time.
They had the opportunity to go to new horizons by continuing the manga with Toyotaro in the lead but there's the possibility that it won't even happen, and the new video game could've been a new opportunity too, but it's going to be another Toriyama-centric project.
Even in the past, could seem like that GT's failure scared them forever, but Toei was about to make more animated project without Toriyama twice, but he ended up involved in both of them, and the fact that they were a financial success probably made them think "hmm... if it wasn't for Toriyama..."

So for me this is the reason you feel that Dragon Ball is confined to small amount of stories, it's not that, but being confined to its creator who is not even in this world anymore, this is making the franchise be about the creator and not the series, it's Toriyama universe and not Dragon Ball universe.

You won't see this with Pokémon, or even Star Wars, despite the criticism, as far as I know a lot of the new content in that franchise was original, introducing a lot of new characters, while also bringing back George Lucas characters and ideas but in a more moderate way, not exaggerated to make it feel like totally derived from the movies, and George Lucas himself wasn't involved in these new content.

Now in Dragon Ball, the next mainline project is a anime remaster of 3 stories made by Toriyama, then next year or 2028 they'll adapt a story created by Toyotaro finished 6 years ago, only to jump to another Toriyama story right after and then we don't know what'll come after. The manga is in the hospital bed, and the next videogame is Dragon Ball Toriyamaverse 3.

It's troubling if they continue doing that, after the game is released and the anime finishes adapting all the Super manga stories is completely unknown territory.

So if there's someone you want to blame for, I believe it may be Shueisha and Capsule Corp Tokyo (Akio Iyoku)

[Yuji]

Dragon Ball is a media mix franchise propped up by the sign of Goku. It does not exist without him, it cannot exist, in its current form, without his image. Goku gives meaning to Dragon Ball, not the other way around. Goku is probably more recognizable than "Dragon Ball" itself, they are not synonymous entities anymore.

It contrasts with other fantasy like Star Wars, Harry Potter or Pokémon, where the world is, inherently, the draw. You are following Goku, and Goku's story, and whatever resonates with you within Dragon Ball comes from this very narrow viewpoint. The world was created in service of Goku, around Goku. It did not exist a priori.

It would not be possible to simply hard pivot into a media model where the world becomes the focus. The franchise would need heavy restructuring from a narrative and marketing standpoint.

[MasenkoHA]

A small amount of stories and it’s a manga that ran 11 years straight and it’s animation adaptation. A anime exclusive series. 21 movies. A co-existing manga and anime sequel that has been running off and on for 11 years. 3 tv specials. 2 OVAs and a short run prequel manga. And a MMO game I had to remind myself exist


Small amount of stories? Okay sure. Right

[Jord]

Dragon Ball is a media mix franchise propped up by the sign of Goku. It does not exist without him, it cannot exist, in its current form, without his image. Goku gives meaning to Dragon Ball, not the other way around. Goku is probably more recognizable than "Dragon Ball" itself, they are not synonymous entities anymore.

It contrasts with other fantasy like Star Wars, Harry Potter or Pokémon, where the world is, inherently, the draw. You are following Goku, and Goku's story, and whatever resonates with you within Dragon Ball comes from this very narrow viewpoint. The world was created in service of Goku, around Goku. It did not exist a priori.

It would not be possible to simply hard pivot into a media model where the world becomes the focus. The franchise would need heavy restructuring from a narrative and marketing standpoint.

It's only Goku's story as long as the powers that be allow it. Star Wars for a long time was exclusively Luke's story as well until it was opened up.

If you eliminate Goku and the other famous characters you still have an interesting world with different creatures, races, planets, magic, technology and of course the Dragon Ballls. Just having a story line where other people, powerful or not, race to gather the dragon balls, could be interesting in its own. In DB we've seen other people collect dragon balls but the solution is usually that the other people hand over the dragon balls or that they get beaten up. There is so much more you can do with just that concept.

[angeldreamZ004]

I don't think there would be the need to abandon Goku's figure.
Yes, he's the ultimate protagonist and never left that spot, even during the Z era where other characters constantly had the spotlight for them.
But just because Goku is the main figure doesn't mean the world can't be explored beyond him. There were already attempts on that in the past actually, the Z and GT Tv specials are examples for that, or Z movies 9-11, or the story that Toriyama himself made which is Jaco the Galactic Patrol. Their stories aren't about Goku, but he plays a important role in them while the focus is exploring the world using different characters.

The problem in my view is that most of these attempts, even the ones with Goku in the lead such as GT and Gaiden, are stuck to the 90s only. It gives the impression that GT's failure doomed any more attempts like this again, and whenever they tried again, it would have Toriyama involved.

I believe the games I mentioned previously are examples for Jordan's problem, games like Shin Budokai 2, Ultimate Blast, FighterZ, Dokkan Battle, Legends, Xenoverse 1, 2, they try to tell original stories, some of them without Goku as the protagonist. The problem is that they're hugely limited to having a very small amount of new original characters and ideas, and even some of the new characters were actually Toriyama creations. They're restricted to use the characters and setting that he created. In the modern era, Heroes was the furthest they've gone so far, and a lot of it is Japan exclusive content or without conventional distribution.

That really doesn't help if you want immersion. Feels like that just there's no room for more creativity in the franchise outside of "Toriyama's view"

Toyotaro was allowed to create his own stories, characters and concepts for the Super manga, but only under Toriyama's supervision, since he passed away, Toyo can't do anything more.
Naho Oishi is stuck to making a parody of Toriyama's manga, and is easy for anyone to miss or forget that she was the one behind Episode of Bardock, which despite being a short story had him going SSJ in a new seeting with new characters, and had no Goku in the forefront.

Goku is the Pikachu of the Dragon Ball franchise, you may say "but Pikachu is not a character" but Nintendo, TPC and Game Freak evolved rhe franchise enough so the Pikachu symbol could become it's own character and the IP mascot, from having it appear in every game alongside other primary pokémons, to being Ash's 1# pokémon for 3 decades and still is a major character in the anime despite of abandoning Ash.

For Goku it could work the same way, but it doesn't, and I believe the reason for it is not because it's about "Goku's story" but "Goku's story, from Toriyama's view", he's the franchise's mascot solely for that reason and I think this is a problem.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the Japanese don't care about GT for example. To this day you'll see a lot of western fans complain about GT because it had no involvement from Toriyama other than the initial designs and concepts, or complaining about certain aspects and parts of Super and blaming Toei and Toyotaro for them, even if part of that actually had Toriyama as the head.
I don't think that's a problem, but the symptom, also other things such as the Super anime and movies being a lot more popular than the manga, we know how when it comes to the animation part, they rely more on Toriyama's name, while the manga, at least originally, says Toyotaro is the author.

So what I'm trying to say is that they trained the fans so they can think that only the stories made by Toriyama matter.
The problem is that overrelying on the creator only works if it's a minor or indie series. For Dragon Ball that won't work in the long term as it has expanded to a Pokémon-like franchise status, but Pokémon doesn't need that kind of treatment.

It's probably the biggest issue I have with it as a franchise, while I really enjoy the characters, stories and concepts that Toriyama created in the more linear series format, when it comes to the larger franchise, it's just not that pleasing when compared to other big franchises, because everything else feels too limited or derivative, and I see that as a curse.

That's one of the main reasons I'm so excited to see the Super manga to return, even if it ends up not being good, if they continue it and Toyotaro is allowed to create whole new characters, concepts, worlds, stories, that will be enough for me to consider the curse as broken.
From the videogame side we'll have to wait post-XV3, as that game already has the Toriyama mark on it.

It's at least the way I see it, it's impossible for Dragon Ball to not give that feeling because they want the franchise to be Toriyama-centric.

[TheBigBoy]

I'd love to see a spinoff. Young Kamesennin seems like an easy one would allow us to explore the wackier world that's shown in the early parts of the series.

A spinoff about the Saiyans working for Freeza has potential but I guess you'd have to deal with the fact your protagonists are a people who commit genocide for fun and profit which worked for the original Bardock special but might not work for an entire series. Unless they also significantly soften the Saiyans like they've done with Bardock in recent years (also not ideal).

[SupremeKai25]

Just because Dragon Ball doesn't put out endless slop like Star Wars and Marvel doesn't mean its potential is untapped. We've gotten a sequel series that has introduced 12 universes, 8 of which all had varying degree of spotlight. It fleshed out the cosmology of the setting, fleshed out the Demon Realm, introduces a whole new level of transformations, new villains, new recurring characters, and so on.

Just because DB doesn't make a trilogy about what food Jaco had for breakfast like SW made endless movies about what your favorite childhood toy was doing that one year or Baby Yoda doesn't mean DB is wasted potential. It just means it's found a nice middle ground between endless slop and no new content.

Also, Xenoverse 2? FighterZ? Kakarot? Sparking Zero? We're just gonna ignore all these highly-successful videogames?

[kemuri07]

I was actually thinking about this recently too. Started re-reading og Dragonball, and was reminded that Bulma does go over a very brief historical summary over the origins of the dragon balls and how “the last person who collected the Dragonballs became king”, and I started thinking how that might be a fun piece of history to fill in. And you can go crazy with it because almost none of the things that we identify with Dragonball even exists.

I don’t really buy into the notion that you can’t make a Dragonball story without Goku. There is a difference between “can’t” and “won’t”. A talented artist/writer can absolutely craft a compelling prequel story. But Toei “won’t” allow it because it doesn’t see money in a story that doesn’t have Goku and Vegeta in it. And unfortunately, there’s a large segment of the audience who “won’t” accept any story that does not have Goku and Vegeta because all they are here for is for “The Super Saiyan Show”.

[goku the krump dancer]

The original manga has 10 stories, starting from Pilaf all the way up to Buu.
DB had 3 filler arcs.
Z's movies and two filler arcs are 15 additional stories.
The Hatchyack OVA is another one.
GT has 4 stories (the 3 main arcs & the TV special).
Modern DB has Super's 9 stories, Daima, the 2008 special, and Heroes' 5 stories.

That's 49 altogether, so DB is by no means confined to a small amount of stories. If you mean good DB, then yes, it's pretty much confined to the original manga, with a very small handful of exceptions here and there. I am not someone who thinks a franchise should be milked into oblivion like the examples you mentioned, where it's all about quantity over quality, so I would've preferred if DB had even less stories than what we have now, not more.

Basically this.. we don’t need spin off stories on characters whose main plots were wrapped up either earlier on (Pre Raditz) or somewhere during “Z”. One can argue that the Cell arc climax was the wrapping up of Gohan’s character and that’s why Toriyama switched back to Goku in the Boo because he realized he was just writing a an epilogue for Gohan and everything post Boo has been the same thing rehashed over and over again about him slacking on his training and finding his spark again.

I’ve even seen people say things like how they’d like a complete spin off of the characters from the other universes from the T.O.P and to that I say YUCK . The last thing this franchise needs is a 50 episode spin off where paint dry personalities like Jiren or Hit are the primary protagonists or even the other Saiyans. Cabba and Caulifla going threw different battles while they wrestle with their insecurities of constantly comparing themselves to Goku and Vegeta ( while we the audience do the exact same) isn’t necessary, especially when we got pieces of that through Gohan, Future Trunks, Gotenks and even in “A Heroes’ Legacy”.

I do hope that something really interesting happens in the next main storyline. Somehow I doubt that Freeza is gonna be the big bad like a lot to people are assuming. If anything it’s seems more like he’s gonna team up with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Broly to fight against whatever he believes is coming. Unfortunately we won’t know anything about that though probably until 2028.

[The Dark Knight]

Basically this.. we don’t need spin off stories on characters whose main plots were wrapped up either earlier on (Pre Raditz) or somewhere during “Z”. One can argue that the Cell arc climax was the wrapping up of Gohan’s character and that’s why Toriyama switched back to Goku in the Boo because he realized he was just writing a an epilogue for Gohan and everything post Boo has been the same thing rehashed over and over again about him slacking on his training and finding his spark again.

Every main character had their story wrapped up by the time the original manga concluded, with Vegeta being the very last one during the fight against Kid Buu. That's basically why so many characters have regressed and gone through similar plot points as before; there's just nothing left to tell about them.

I’ve even seen people say things like how they’d like a complete spin off of the characters from the other universes from the T.O.P and to that I say YUCK .

I would not watch a single episode centered around anyone from the other universes, much less an entire series.

I do hope that something really interesting happens in the next main storyline.

Don't get your hopes up too much; the decision to limit the story to this setting (10 year time gap) and characters (Goku and friends) has pretty much killed any potential modern DB has to be interesting or innovative. We'll definitely see potential of great stories, but that potential will be buried under nostalgia and the fear to do anything new with the world and characters.

Somehow I doubt that Freeza is gonna be the big bad like a lot to people are assuming. If anything it’s seems more like he’s gonna team up with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Broly to fight against whatever he believes is coming.

This will just be a repeat of the arc they went through during the tournament of power of starting out not trusting him, but being forced to put their differences aside for the greater good.

[JulieYBM]

I was actually thinking about this recently too. Started re-reading og Dragonball, and was reminded that Bulma does go over a very brief historical summary over the origins of the dragon balls and how “the last person who collected the Dragonballs became king”, and I started thinking how that might be a fun piece of history to fill in. And you can go crazy with it because almost none of the things that we identify with Dragonball even exists.

I don’t really buy into the notion that you can’t make a Dragonball story without Goku. There is a difference between “can’t” and “won’t”. A talented artist/writer can absolutely craft a compelling prequel story. But Toei “won’t” allow it because it doesn’t see money in a story that doesn’t have Goku and Vegeta in it. And unfortunately, there’s a large segment of the audience who “won’t” accept any story that does not have Goku and Vegeta because all they are here for is for “The Super Saiyan Show”.

The only way that it's really happening is if you basically do what Daima did, only more successfully focus on the non-regular characters. Want to do a story about the guy who collected the Dragon Balls? That's going to have to be a time travel story where Goku plays a side character/mentor role. It's basically the Pocket Mosnters Advanced Generation and Pocket Monsters Diamond & Pearl formula: Satoshi would travel with newbie trainers like Haruka and Hikari as they grew up and advanced with his occasional guidance and wisdom—in so much as a ten year old boy could have over a fellow ten year old, at least.

Maybe toss in Bulma to fulfill the Takeshi role from those two series: even older and wiser, with more technical skills.

Wait, that's Dragon Ball GT!

[Skar]

I do hope that something really interesting happens in the next main storyline. Somehow I doubt that Freeza is gonna be the big bad like a lot to people are assuming. If anything it’s seems more like he’s gonna team up with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Broly to fight against whatever he believes is coming. Unfortunately we won’t know anything about that though probably until 2028.

I remember a fan idea that the next main villain could be whatever race Freeza's empire has been selling planets to. Maybe it's revealed Kold made a deal with them to conquer and sell planets to keep them at bay. U7 has a shortage of planets and only 20 something left at this point so that race decides to conquer the rest themselves and Freeza has to teamup with the Z fighters. I think it's an unlikely idea since it would be a super powerful race that none of the U7 gods knew about but I thought it was interesting.