New-found love for the Freeza saga

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:25 pm

The thing that really impressed me about the Freeza Saga, and started my love of it, was the soundtrack (the Japanese one of course). The Saiya-jin Saga wasn't too great on the music (or maybe I just didn't notice it because of all of the fighting) and the Namek/Ginyu Saga's didn't really have anything new. But once the Freeza Saga came around we heard some new music and some songs that just fit the scenes they were used in perfectly.

For me, the greatest thing about the BGM of the Freeza Saga was that much needed/wanted use of the fourth piece of the The Sleeping Princess in the Devil’s Castle BGM collection. The song was first used for that movie back in July 1987 and was an awesome part of the film. The song then was not used until the end DBZ episode 027 when Piccolo was killed by Nappa in November 1989 (listen to it here). The song was then not used until the Freeza Saga, where it was much appreciated and used often.

The thing that I found most interesting about the songs use in the Freeza Saga (and DBZ as a whole) was that when the song was first used it was used as a kind of opening theme for the demon army, but for DBZ it was pretty much used as a death theme, being played when Piccolo died and in the Freeza Saga when Kuririn was gored by Freeza, when Vegeta died, when the flashback of Freeza killing the Saiya-jin race was played and in one or two other spots as well. I know the song is kind of dark and morbid but that is pretty much what the Freeza was, so I saw it as a perfect fit.

That's pretty much what first think of when I think about the Freeza Saga, and since the song was never again used (to the best of my knowledge) it really is something special about the Freeza Saga.

Did anyone else notice and like the music that was used throughout the Freeza Saga, or was it just me?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:53 pm

russ869 · Post by **russ869** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:04 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:The whole Ki masking thing is played to great effect by Toriyama throughout, and he uses it to create some of the most nail biting situations in the whole series, like in perhaps the single best scene in the whole saga; the scene where Gohan and Kuririn are forced to sit by and watch helplessly as Freeza and his men terrorize (and murder) Dende’s whole village. This is IMO easily the most breathless moment in the whole manga/anime, and almost never again do we ever see villains who quite get to that level of pure slime. Excellent way to set up your main villains.

This is too true. What makes the Freeza saga so great is the crazy suspense of it all. Not to mention it the single saga of Dragonball that is most tensely focus on, what d'ya know, the Dragonballs! Not a second goes by when you're not wondering if they'll be able to keep Freeza from getting the Dragonballs long enough for Vegeta to wipe out his forces, or if they can stay alive long enough to make their journey millions of miles through space actually matter. Suddenly the series becomes so complicated and strategic.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:07 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Minor correction I wanna make here; the next time it was used was actually in Dragon Ball episode 81: Gokuu - Makai e Iku (Goku Goes to the World of Demons) in September 1987. THEN it was used in DBZ when Nappa kills Piccolo.

I never even knew that, thank you! Knowing that (especially the fact that it was played in that particular episode) makes me appreciate and realize the sheer greatness and symbolism behind that song.

Kunzait_83 wrote:I look at its use in the Saiya-jin saga almost as a piece of irony/contrast. That song was mainly used as a general Satanic/Demon theme back during Dragon Ball, and Piccolo’s sacrifice for Gohan pretty much marks the first time we really see him starting to prove that the Demon King within him is truly no more.

Playing it during that moment, for viewers who were familiar with DB before Z calls back to mind Piccolo’s demon roots, thus highlighting the stark contrast between his past as a murderous villain with his present heroic actions.

That is such a great, deep analysis and summarizing explanation of the piece! Your scrutinization of the song is so well done that it totally made me want to go and order the CD collection. This has been the highlight of my day (wow, over a single song? Is that really what I've become?)

Kunzait_83 wrote:Random observation/trivia; both times that it’s used in Dragon Ball as well as the one time it’s used in the Saiya-jin saga, the song contains the full choir vocals. But once it’s used during the Freeza saga, the choir is dropped and it’s used strictly as an instrumental. That to me always helped separated the two variations of the piece; with the choir – demon theme. Without the choir – Freeza theme.

I noticed that too. It really sucks that the instrumental version has never been released on CD...but there's still hopes for a BGM rip to pop up somewhere (as long as the instrumental version doesn't get released on CD of course).

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:20 pm

@Velasa- looking back at your post a page back, would I be correct in assuming that I'm not alone in feeling the anime nailed something the manga missed out on with Piccolo going to Gohan's aide?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:25 am

Yes. It did. Remember the part a little before that when Son sent Gohan off to fight (a now again fully healed, thank you jackass) Cell and Pic was none too happy about that? Time and time again, Pic has always been the first one to come to Gohan's aid when he needs him. I don't see why all of a sudden Vegeta, who doesn't give a damn about the kid, would be the first to get there.

Onikage725 wrote: It just happened that Goku's mid-life "they can't rely on me forever" crisis hit at the same time as Gohan's long-built emotional "I really don't want to be doing this shit" baggage showed up.

This gets even cuter when you remember that he not only merrily tossed his child in, but he felt compelled to heal the enemy first so that he could sustain as much pain as possible. It's one thing when you help your enemies and they're just gonna kick your ass. It's another thing entirely there. I like Son, really, but his interactions with family members make me want to strangle him. [/quote]

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:51 am

Velasa wrote:Yes. It did. Remember the part a little before that when Son sent Gohan off to fight (a now again fully healed, thank you jackass) Cell and Pic was none too happy about that? Time and time again, Pic has always been the first one to come to Gohan's aid when he needs him. I don't see why all of a sudden Vegeta, who doesn't give a damn about the kid, would be the first to get there.

Onikage725 wrote: It just happened that Goku's mid-life "they can't rely on me forever" crisis hit at the same time as Gohan's long-built emotional "I really don't want to be doing this shit" baggage showed up.
This gets even cuter when you remember that he not only merrily tossed his child in, but he felt compelled to heal the enemy first so that he could sustain as much pain as possible. It's one thing when you help your enemies and they're just gonna kick your ass. It's another thing entirely there. I like Son, really, but his interactions with family members make me want to strangle him.

It could possibly be due to Gohan saving Vegeta from almost getting hit by Cell's blast... or it's because Vegeta wanted to get his revenge on Cell for killing Trunks... because, y'know, that really made Vegeta break. And as for the Goku-giving-Cell-a-Senzu-bean bit... Goku might have felt that this way... the match would be fair, since Gohan had the power to transform into a Super Saiya-jin 2 (which would totally kick Cell's ass to the ground), but he didn't quite have that rage yet to trigger it... and Gohan got too cocky when he was an SS2. Also, you have to remember that when a Saiyan is near the brink of death... they grow stronger... and I guess in Gohan's case... he, later on, got really pissed off when Cell brought out the Cell Juniors to attack Goku and his friends and when Cell destroyed #16. But I dunno; those are just my observations, call 'em half-assed or anything of that nature, if you wish to.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:20 am

I know, fair fight, all that stuff. But this is your only child. Does he really have to have the hardest fight possible? Or is it more important that things are fair. Son has skewed views of things but that always just drives me crazy.

And I can see the notes on Veg's possible motives, but I can't see that outweighing.... what was it at this point, seven years of friendship? I'm also extremely Pic-centric so I have a bias here. but Pic going in first when Pic has always gone in first makes the most sense for me.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:17 am

Velasa wrote:I know, fair fight, all that stuff. But this is your only child. Does he really have to have the hardest fight possible? Or is it more important that things are fair. Son has skewed views of things but that always just drives me crazy.

I agree. With that one action of giving Cell a senzu, Goku was just as guilty as Vegeta ever was when he let Cell transform. Maybe more so since he knew Cell was so strong.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:49 am

He figured Cell was going to mop the floor with him anyway, though. Cell was the one going to get his clock cleaned.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:18 pm

Velasa wrote:I know, fair fight, all that stuff. But this is your only child. Does he really have to have the hardest fight possible?

He's the son of Goku, a Saiyan. Why wouldn't he want the toughest fight possible?

At least, that what Goku's thought process was, I think.

And when was it that Vegeta rushed in to save Gohan?

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:45 pm

Onikage725 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:I'm a little iffy on it. Gohan knows he's strong enough to take on Cell and he knows he has his old man's complete trust. Instead of being gracious for his old man's deep rooted trust he's sort of an [ungrateful] *** about it. At least, that's how I see it.
Heh, you make it sound like his dad asked him to pick up the groceries.
I'm sure if Goku had been soundly beaten by Cell, Gohan would have been the first one to jump into the ring. But Goku just backed off, refused senzu, and forced Gohan to take his place.

It just happened that Goku's mid-life "they can't rely on me forever" crisis hit at the same time as Gohan's long-built emotional "I really don't want to be doing this shit" baggage showed up.

And yet it still occured to him his dad was right.

And...thirty's a midlife crisis?

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:36 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Velasa wrote:I know, fair fight, all that stuff. But this is your only child. Does he really have to have the hardest fight possible?
He's the son of Goku, a Saiyan. Why wouldn't he want the toughest fight possible?

At least, that what Goku's thought process was, I think.

And when was it that Vegeta rushed in to save Gohan?

Well... maybe not "rush" in, but remember how he blasted Cell when SS2 Gohan and Cell were having a Kamehameha beam struggle?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:And when was it that Vegeta rushed in to save Gohan?

I'm refering to how in the manga, Vegeta is the one to help during the beam struggle when in the anime Pic and the people that actually like Gohan are the ones who go in first.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:38 pm

Velasa wrote:I'm refering to how in the manga, Vegeta is the one to help during the beam struggle when in the anime Pic and the people that actually like Gohan are the ones who go in first.

Ah, that. Well, I've pretty much said my piece on that.

And actually, it doesn't make any sense in the anime. Cell's been getting pummeled by everybody with no effect, why does a single blast from base Vegeta (weaker than Piccolo) make any difference?

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:23 pm

I always thought he basically give him a Final Flash or something. In the anime he was Super Saiyan I think. Which makes more sense, doesn't it? Although in the manga it's just the surprise, I guess.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:25 pm

A lof of things didn't make sense by that point- like Cell still being perfect after loosing 18, and a lot of other things you already noted. That scene with everyone blasting at Cell's back and Gohan's reactions was one of the only good parts of the fight by that point< <

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:46 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I always thought he basically give him a Final Flash or something. In the anime he was Super Saiyan I think. Which makes more sense, doesn't it? Although in the manga it's just the surprise, I guess.

After checking, you're right, he was Super Saiyan in the anime. But the blast was a simple ki blast.

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:52 pm

Rocketman wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:I always thought he basically give him a Final Flash or something. In the anime he was Super Saiyan I think. Which makes more sense, doesn't it? Although in the manga it's just the surprise, I guess.
After checking, you're right, he was Super Saiyan in the anime. But the blast was a simple ki blast.

I think that got Cell's attention for the most part.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:53 pm

mAcChaos wrote:He figured Cell was going to mop the floor with him anyway, though. Cell was the one going to get his clock cleaned.

Except, Cell didn't mop the floor with him. Goku had hurt Cell enough to weaken him. Gohan may never have needed to go SSJ2 to beat him. But then Goku stupidly gives Cell a senzu, and all of a sudden everyones lives are riding on the hidden power of kid who doesn't know how to(or just wouldn't) access it.

Rocketman wrote:He's the son of Goku, a Saiyan. Why wouldn't he want the toughest fight possible?

But it was him who was going to fight. He basically forced the fight onto an unwilling child. Idiotic move, even inspite of the whole "Saiyan's love a challenge" thing. Even dumber than when Gohan let Cell regenerate.

Kanzenshuu

New-found love for the Freeza saga

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