Is this a plothole?

[NeptuneKai]

Since I don't feel like digging through huge quote towers I just want to add plot and continuity are two different things goodguy.

[Jerseymilk]

It's about understanding the story not enjoyment.

*headdesks*
*headdesks*
*headdesks again for good measure*

Buddy, go find a girlfriend, seriously. >>

[Xyex]

I've only got one thing I want to bring up in here, and them I'm butting out because this entire thread is a waste of time.

There are two types of Science Fiction. Hard Sci-fi and Soft Sci-fi. What's the difference? Hard Sci-fi is something akin to Star Trek (though even that gets soft a lot) where everything is explained and detailed and made to be realisitic. Soft Sci-fi doesn't give a shit. Soft Sci-fi just does what it wants and calls it science. Dragonball is pure Soft Sci-fi. It's full of technology that borders on magic with no attempts to explain any of it. The only reason it's even considered science is because they outright say it's done through technology.

But things like Capsules could just as easily have been explained as being magic and not had to change a single element of their fucntion or design. It's never explained how minor alterations to average humans can result in beings much more powerful than Freeza. Never touched upon how people can travel through space at many times faster than light without any time dilation occuring. Never mentioned how a Capsule stores things inside it. Never even asked how scouters works. Etc. The 'science' in Dragonball just is. It's magic wrapped in shiny metal and given nice little buttons and flashy lights.

Even with it's Sci-fi tinges Dragonball is, at its core, pure fantasy. And the technology all reflects this.

[goodguy777]

-edit- The part about not understanding Cell is pretty simple, here's a dumbed down version for someone who doesn't know science; Cell was made by an evil doctor and he knows how to use other characters powers, you don't need to know anything deeper than that.

I said HOW?.

I just did, I gave you a way to explain the supposedly so biologically complexe character of Cell to somebody who doesn't know much about science.

It's a story not a process.

Let's try this again.

Star Trek is a science fiction series. DragonBall is not.

In Star Trek, science is the primary focus of the series. In just about every episode, they have to do something fancy with the ship's technology, like recalibrate the deflector dish or hit something with an inverse tachyon beam or fix the sonic showers again because they're misaligned and making horrific, high-pitched-to-the-point-of-inaudible screeching noises that are giving everyone migraines. Science is the focus of that series.

In DragonBall, people have large-scale martial-arts battles. Every so often, somebody will have used a spaceship to get to where the battle is happening, or one of the combatants will be a scary monster who was grown in a tube. Science is NOT the primary focus of DragonBall.

Ok, it's not a primary focus but most of it's elements are consists of science and science-fiction.

I've only got one thing I want to bring up in here, and them I'm butting out because this entire thread is a waste of time.

There are two types of Science Fiction. Hard Sci-fi and Soft Sci-fi. What's the difference? Hard Sci-fi is something akin to Star Trek (though even that gets soft a lot) where everything is explained and detailed and made to be realisitic. Soft Sci-fi doesn't give a shit. Soft Sci-fi just does what it wants and calls it science. Dragonball is pure Soft Sci-fi. It's full of technology that borders on magic with no attempts to explain any of it. The only reason it's even considered science is because they outright say it's done through technology.

But things like Capsules could just as easily have been explained as being magic and not had to change a single element of their fucntion or design. It's never explained how minor alterations to average humans can result in beings much more powerful than Freeza. Never touched upon how people can travel through space at many times faster than light without any time dilation occuring. Never mentioned how a Capsule stores things inside it. Never even asked how scouters works. Etc. The 'science' in Dragonball just is. It's magic wrapped in shiny metal and given nice little buttons and flashy lights.

Even with it's Sci-fi tinges Dragonball is, at its core, pure fantasy. And the technology all reflects this.

Dragon Ball has more science-fiction than fantasy.

[SSJ2bardock]

I said HOW?.

I just did, I gave you a way to explain the supposedly so biologically complexe character of Cell to somebody who doesn't know much about science.

It's a story not a process.

Which is exactly how it's explained in the series. They never go into detail about how Gero scientifically did any of this or explain his "process" of how he did it.

[Kaboom]

Dragon Ball has more science-fiction than fantasy.

No it doesn't. All of DragonBall is fantasy/action, a LITTLE BIT of science fiction gets introduced in the Saiyan/Freeza and Androids/Cell arcs, and then Majin Buu is all fantasy again. A very small fraction of the story has basis in any kind of science, and even then, it's hokey, made-up science.

[goodguy777]

I just did, I gave you a way to explain the supposedly so biologically complexe character of Cell to somebody who doesn't know much about science.

It's a story not a process.

Which is exactly how it's explained in the series. They never go into detail about how Gero scientifically did any of this or explain his "process" of how he did it.

Funny, you didn't mention anything about TINY SPY-ROBOT, CELLS AND MAIN COMPUTER. Those are scientific terms that are needed a definition.

Dragon Ball has more science-fiction than fantasy.

No it doesn't. All of DragonBall is fantasy/action, a LITTLE BIT of science fiction gets introduced in the Saiyan/Freeza and Androids/Cell arcs, and then Majin Buu is all fantasy again. A very small fraction of the story has basis in any kind of science, and even then, it's hokey, made-up science.

You said it yourself:

Saiyan, Freeza, Android and Cell Arcs = Science-Fiction

Majin-Buu Arc = Fantasy

Therefore, it's more than a Science-Fiction than fantasy.

Genre:

Fantasy = Wish from the dragon, water that can make you strong, sorcery, demon, nyoibo, Goku's cloud, gods, senzu beans and after-life.

Science-Fiction = Robots, cyborg, genetic engineering of cells, aliens from another planet, hoipoi capsules, fying cars and motors, spaceship that can travel from galaxy to galaxy, time machine, mutants and advance architectural design.

[KinoFourpaws]

... You're not considering the whole series, are you?

There was plenty of story before Z started, remember? :/

[goodguy777]

... You're not considering the whole series, are you?

There was plenty of story before Z started, remember? :/

King Piccolo or Piccolo Jr. is a namek.

[SSJ2bardock]

It's a story not a process.

Which is exactly how it's explained in the series. They never go into detail about how Gero scientifically did any of this or explain his "process" of how he did it.

Funny, you didn't mention anything about TINY SPY-ROBOT, CELLS AND MAIN COMPUTER. Those are scientific terms that are needed a definition.

True, I didn't mention those elements, but you have to ask yourself this: Without knowing of the spy-bots or main computer, would you comprehend Cell's character any less? These aren't terribly important elements to the story.

[KinoFourpaws]

... You're not considering the whole series, are you?

There was plenty of story before Z started, remember? :/

King Piccolo or Piccolo Jr. is a namek.

That "fact" was only put into place in Z, though. Before that, Piccolo and his spawn were all described as "demons", not aliens. The whole concept of "alien" wasn't even expounded upon until later. So, with that in mind, the whole of DB (before Z) was, actually, almost entirely fantasy and fighting-based.

[goodguy777]

... You're not considering the whole series, are you?

There was plenty of story before Z started, remember? :/

King Piccolo or Piccolo Jr. is a namek.

That "fact" was only put into place in Z, though. Before that, Piccolo and his spawn were all described as "demons", not aliens. The whole concept of "alien" wasn't even expounded upon until later. So, with that in mind, the whole of DB (before Z) was, actually, almost entirely fantasy and fighting-based.

Still, if you count the whole story. Piccolo is still an alien.

[Kaboom]

You said it yourself:

Saiyan, Freeza, Android and Cell Arcs = Science-Fiction
Majin-Buu Arc = Fantasy

Therefore, it's more than a Science-Fiction than fantasy.

No, dude. Are you forgetting about the 16 volumes worth of material BEFORE Raditz showed up? Those two arcs are a small fraction of the story as a whole. And within them, the science portions are still nothing more than means to the end.

If they'd decided to beat Freeza by adjusting their ship's sensors to cause a weird feedback that would absorb his ki and weaken him, to the point where they could cause Namek's suns to go nova and trap him in a black hole, that would be science fiction. But no, Goku became a Super Saiyan and pounded the crap out of him.

If they'd decided to destroy Cell by developing and infecting him with a specially-tailored virus that would disable his powers and cause him to revert to his imperfect form, THAT would be science fiction. But no, they beat him my beating him around and then frying him with a Kamehameha.

[gus738]

Quite simple you can figure it out. As an example see how the thread is going from a simple thing to a non related or lol moment like how if you don't know about science you won't get into dbz lol

Also vegeta and napa were out of a planet and blew it up, this was when they were on a course to planet earth.

I laughed my ass off at how you just avoided the current debate. That was pretty funny.

[Xyex]

Still, if you count the whole story. Piccolo is still an alien.

King Piccolo is the evil of the god of the Earth given form and is more Demon than alien. Piccolo is the reincarnation/son of King Piccolo. Even with the alien stuff tacked on Piccolo's origins are still almost entirely fantasy.

[goodguy777]

Which is exactly how it's explained in the series. They never go into detail about how Gero scientifically did any of this or explain his "process" of how he did it.

Funny, you didn't mention anything about TINY SPY-ROBOT, CELLS AND MAIN COMPUTER. Those are scientific terms that are needed a definition.

True, I didn't mention those elements, but you have to ask yourself this: Without knowing of the spy-bots or main computer, would you comprehend Cell's character any less? These aren't terribly important elements to the story.

My point is you wouldn't understand how cell created if you know nothing about biology, take note "CELL".

You said it yourself:

Saiyan, Freeza, Android and Cell Arcs = Science-Fiction
Majin-Buu Arc = Fantasy

Therefore, it's more than a Science-Fiction than fantasy.

No, dude. Are you forgetting about the 16 volumes worth of material BEFORE Raditz showed up? Those two arcs are a small fraction of the story as a whole. And within them, the science portions are still nothing more than means to the end.

If they'd decided to beat Freeza by adjusting their ship's sensors to cause a weird feedback that would absorb his ki and weaken him, to the point where they could cause Namek's suns to go nova and trap him in a black hole, that would be science fiction. But no, Goku became a Super Saiyan and pounded the crap out of him.

If they'd decided to destroy Cell by developing and infecting him with a specially-tailored virus that would disable his powers and cause him to revert to his imperfect form, THAT would be science fiction. But no, they beat him my beating him around and then frying him with a Kamehameha.

You're just explaining an event, please use the genre of the manga:

Pilaf Arc = 60% fantasy and 40% sci-fi

Tournament = action

Red- Ribbon = 40% action, 20%fantasy and 40%sci-fi

Tournament = action

King Piccolo = namek

tournament = piccolo is namek

Still, if you count the whole story. Piccolo is still an alien.

King Piccolo is the evil of the god of the Earth given form and is more Demon than alien. Piccolo is the reincarnation/son of King Piccolo. Even with the alien stuff tacked on Piccolo's origins are still almost entirely fantasy.

Use the genre of the manga please and not the twist of the story.

[SSJ2bardock]

Funny, you didn't mention anything about TINY SPY-ROBOT, CELLS AND MAIN COMPUTER. Those are scientific terms that are needed a definition.

True, I didn't mention those elements, but you have to ask yourself this: Without knowing of the spy-bots or main computer, would you comprehend Cell's character any less? These aren't terribly important elements to the story.

My point is you wouldn't understand how cell created if you know nothing about biology, take note "CELL".

And my point is you don't need to understand how Cell was created to understand that he's powerful and he's a baddie. I'm done arguing over this because you can't seem to comprehend that people can enjoy a story without fully understanding what they're watching or reading.

[NeptuneKai]

Jesus Bardock, you have a quote tower big enough to rival Korin tower.

[Kaboom]

You're just explaining an event, please use the genre of the manga

/Sigh/

Okay, that was apparently too many words. It seems I need to make it simpler.

It's only a science fiction story if it's ALL science-fiction centered. Both the problems and the solutions. Even if the problem has a basis in science, in DragonBall, they don't respond with science. They respond by beating it up. That's the stark difference.

Just because there's some advanced technology doesn't mean the series is Sci-Fi. In Yu Yu Hakusho, Yusuke likes to visit a Pachinko Parlor every so often during his free time. Would you categorize that manga in the games drama category, like Yu-Gi-Oh or Hikaru no Go because of that? No, of course not. So why are you trying to categorize DragonBall as a Sci-Fi just because they use spaceships to get to the planet where the badguys were in ONE story arc?

It's a long story. 42 volumes. Only TWO story arcs in a dozen or so had ANY science-fiction elements in them relative to the plot. Pick up and actually read the early volumes of the manga and tell me if that says "Science Fiction" to you.

I'm done arguing with you now. If you want to go on warping the series into something it's not within your own head, then fine. Call me up sometime, and we'll discuss how One Piece is all about space exploration because Eneru flew to the moon in a golden boat that one time.

[goodguy777]

True, I didn't mention those elements, but you have to ask yourself this: Without knowing of the spy-bots or main computer, would you comprehend Cell's character any less? These aren't terribly important elements to the story.

My point is you wouldn't understand how cell created if you know nothing about biology, take note "CELL".

And my point is you don't need to understand how Cell was created to understand that he's powerful and he's a baddie. I'm done arguing over this because you can't seem to comprehend that people can enjoy a story without fully understanding what they're watching or reading.

And my point is you wouldn't understand how cell created. Some people enjoy the movie or comics because of the story and some enjoying it because of the artwork, it depends. You're explanation on how cell created is not detailed unlike in the manga.

You're just explaining an event, please use the genre of the manga

/Sigh/

Okay, that was apparently too many words. It seems I need to make it simpler.

It's only a science fiction story if it's ALL science-fiction centered. Both the problems and the solutions. Even if the problem has a basis in science, in DragonBall, they don't respond with science. They respond by beating it up. That's the stark difference.

Just because there's some advanced technology doesn't mean the series is Sci-Fi. In Yu Yu Hakusho, Yusuke likes to visit a Pachinko Parlor every so often during his free time. Would you categorize that manga in the games drama category, like Yu-Gi-Oh or Hikaru no Go because of that? No, of course not. So why are you trying to categorize DragonBall as a Sci-Fi just because they use spaceships to get to the planet where the badguys were in ONE story arc?

It's a long story. 42 volumes. Only TWO story arcs in a dozen or so had ANY science-fiction elements in them relative to the plot. Pick up and actually read the early volumes of the manga and tell me if that says "Science Fiction" to you.

I'm done arguing with you now. If you want to go on warping the series into something it's not within your own head, then fine. Call me up sometime, and we'll discuss how One Piece is all about space exploration because Eneru flew to the moon in a golden boat that one time.

I didn't said it's sci-fiction, I said most of its element. The problem is not with me anymore, go ask Toriyama and Shuiesha about this.