An observation on Dragon Ball's English-speaking fanbases.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Um it's not about the Japanese voices. Quite frankly the Disney characters suck in Japanese and each language has flaws really.

Look how I saw it on that subject was that the Disney characters and Kingdom Hearts original characters all minus Roxas were great in English. There's not reason why they shouldn't be speaking English. However thanks to Square's incompetents the FFVII characters in KH II sound hideous. Hearing the all important Aerith, Cloud, and Sephiroth talk in Kingdom Hearts II makes me want to cry. But that's not the point that I was talking about, it's the fact that they edit Disney stuff. As in stuff that they made themselves in their levels from their movies. For example the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean level don't have guns in the American version even though they had them in the movie. Also in Hercules whenever Hydra's heads got knocked off in movie Hercules remember how there was that green goo that come out of it? Well Disney got rid of it, for the American version only.

To me, I could have expected that since Disney is insane with edits but Hell, they fucking show Hercules on TOON DISNEY without edits. And it pretty much shows that they're xenophobes because they edited out content on accident thinking that it was Japanese .

There are also other minor edits to KH II. I don't think there were any in KH I. But it's still stupid that they edit their own content that they still show on TV.

About the Kingdom Hearts thing, we don't really know what went on. I think it's not completely unlikely that the ESRB got involved and said "These two tiny details would give the game an M Rating".

Since games in Japan are rated by a different authority, it can be pretty easily deduced that the two groups would have differing standards. And, frankly, those edits were so minor that I really don't even care.

And I don't play Final Fantasy games, I don't like them. So I wouldn't know about the Final Fantasy character's voices being off or whatever, but it seems rather nitpicky.

[Casual Matt]

I believe that most Japanese cartoons are done in post where the voices are dubbed in after the animation is completed.

However, most North American cartoons have the voices recorded before the animation and then any necessary changes to sync, additional voices, or grunts and whatnot for fight scenes are put in afterward.

I think you got that the other way around if I read that right, if I didn't I'm sorry. I remember reading interviews from seiyuu and they always talked about how they could never see the animation and how they had to sometimes recorded without even knowing what they were doing because the animation hadn't even been completed. Then I always read that anime VA's always looked at the footage.

I might have read wrong though .

I'm not sure about Japanese cartoons but, North American made cartoons definitely have the voice recording done before the animation.

North American dubbing of Japanese cartoons is another story, obviously.

[Vekurotto]

And I don't play Final Fantasy games, I don't like them. So I wouldn't know about the Final Fantasy character's voices being off or whatever, but it seems rather nitpicky.

Square Enix just fucked up on the FFVII characters only. Everybody else from the other Final Fantasy games were fine. Granted FFVII actually was the last series to get a dub but I think they just really messed up.

[SSj_Rambo]

I believe that most Japanese cartoons are done in post where the voices are dubbed in after the animation is completed.

However, most North American cartoons have the voices recorded before the animation and then any necessary changes to sync, additional voices, or grunts and whatnot for fight scenes are put in afterward.

I think you got that the other way around if I read that right, if I didn't I'm sorry. I remember reading interviews from seiyuu and they always talked about how they could never see the animation and how they had to sometimes recorded without even knowing what they were doing because the animation hadn't even been completed. Then I always read that anime VA's always looked at the footage.

I might have read wrong though .

I'm not sure about Japanese cartoons but, North American made cartoons definitely have the voice recording done before the animation.

I know that the voice track for Akira was recorded before the footage was put together (in Japan). I don't know about other anime, but for the case of shows like Dragonball that were often animated in other cities and sometimes countrys I'll bet that the voices were done after the animation was finished.

[AnzuMazaki]

I guess I fall into the "Japanese version fans" category because I haven't touched the dub since the late Boo arc in 2003 when I started watching that arc fansubbed because CN refused to air all of the episodes in a timely manner. I think the Boo arc went from late 2001-2003 or some sort of bullshit. I just couldn't wait around for that any longer. Ever since then I haven't even chosen the dub since I just found the original to just be better in every way.

You know I really don't like this type of fan.

"The Z fans who don't like Dragon Ball"

Why oh why? Do they realize that they are missing half of a series? Do they realize that Z essentially has no story because all of the aspects that are common in Z were in Dragon Ball first and where extremely shocking where in Z they aren't? Do they realize that the fighting in Dragon Ball is actually not people becoming lines and going across the screen and having sonicbooms come out and actual punches and kicks are being performed? Do they realize Dragon Ball was actually funny and not fake serious with lukewarm comedy? Do they realize YADA YADA YADA.

Yeah I know I can go on but they just annoy me a lot. When they try to explain the story form a Z prospective it's almost laughable and sad at the same time.

I agree, I have been trying to get some of my Yugioh Watchers into Dragonball but one of them won't watch it because "it's one of those animes that she doesn't get"

She should at least watch the original Dragonball not because it's the first but it's the best one I consider out of the three series.

People only consider Dragonball Z and ignore Dragonball, as if their DBZHigh Fanfics were the canon prequel and Dragonball fucking wasn't!

It's the opposite and they have to deal with it (Dragonball's canon, DBZ High's not)

Sometimes I want to say "I'm sorry Spongbob (random name chosen, don't ask me why I chose Spongebob)! But you have to watch the first Dragonball series" whereever I read a fanfic with summaries like "Cheerleader Bulma's Baseball Star Boyfriend cheats on her/abuses her and she meets the Local Bad Boy Vegeta, will she, and her best buddies Launch,. Chichi and 18 get their first kiss and get married? Find out on DBZ High!"

or when I see the Grown Up Z fighters in High School in a fanmanga .

[Kunzait_83]

b

[SSJ2bardock]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s, SonEric84’s, Yuugi’s Balck Magician’s, omegacwa’s, NeptuneKai’s, SSJ Kaboom’s, TripleRach’s, Thanos6’s, Tsukento’s, Castor Troy’s, Meri’s, Herms’, Kid Trunks’, Valesa’s, Super Ghost Kamikaze’s, Vekurotto’s… fuck even people with whom I generally disagree with nearly everything that comes out of their mouth like SSJ2Bardock, Xyex, and Rocketman (loveable prick that he is )… the list of fun cats just keeps going, and going, and going to the point where I could be here all day listing everyone.

Glad to see that I'm the first person who came to mind on the people you disagree with.

But I couldn't agree more. I had a big, BIG problem with the Dragonball fan community as a whole because, quite frankly, stupid people make me angry with all their foolishness. Ignorant fans of the dub versions of DBZ and Naruto are some of the most frustrating people to deal with on the internet and in real life as well. I was beginning to think that I was the only competent fan of the series and I would never meet anyone that I could truly discuss Dragonball intelligently with.

I had tried other forums before and it was just so damn'd hard to get your point across with some people and it felt very detached like I was just Joe Fan putting in his two cents and then being lost in obscurity again.

April 20th, enter Daizex. I came in green and got my posts in, took my lumps from the Reg's, got my mandatory newbie-EX-red-edit's every other post, and got in a few inevitable arguments with Kunzait, Onikage, and Velasa. Over time I got the swing of things and became a productive member of the forum. Then the people that matter here start to notice me as this dubbie-upstart with a growing post count and I finally get some recognition.

Now that I've been here for a while I just feel like one of the guys and a valued member of this niche little community that we've got going here. To tell you the truth, this group we've got here makes up for all the fantards that are out there and redeems the fanbase for me. I love coming here to agree with you guys on the things that I think are awesome and I love the sense of humor we have here, some of you guys are very witty. Hell, I even love coming here and getting my debating skills challenged by Kunzait and his awesome rants (occasionally by a verbal bitch slap) and I've become friends with a few people, like Velasa, simply by arguing with them. Basically, I could sum this whole rant up into 3 words: You guys rock! If it was possible for us all to meet up and just hangout that would be really awesome and I hope someday we'll have the opportunity to do that.

[Captain Awesome]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s

Man, now I feel all warm and fuzzy, look how high up I am on that list!

As for fan-groupings, what I love about it here is that despite the fact that we're a crazy mix of purists, dub fans and "can't I like both!?" everyone for the most part gets along, I think it says a lot about the people that make up this community that dubbies and subbies can actually co-exist.

I think everyone knows by now that I hate the dub, I hate the acting, I hate the music, I hate the re-writes, but pre-Daizex I didn't believe there was a single intelligent, articulate and emotionally stable FUNimation dub fan out there.

I guess what I'm saying is that nothing keeps your fandom ticking over like a great community of intelligent cool people to share it with.

[Castor Troy]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s

Man, now I feel all warm and fuzzy, look how high up I am on that list!

We're totally Super Elite!

[SSJ2bardock]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s

Man, now I feel all warm and fuzzy, look how high up I am on that list!

We're totally Super Elite!

Oh yeah? Well check out how high up I am on this list.

even people with whom I generally disagree with nearly everything that comes out of their mouth like SSJ2Bardock, Xyex, and Rocketman

Wait a minute....

[Velasa]

Aaaaaaw, I'm getting all warm and fuzzy just sitting here ^^ I love call-outs! Especially from such cool people. And I totally started typing this before I read Captian Awesome's post, damn you!

... It sorta makes me wish I remember my history coming here o_O I just remember hearing something about an actual dragonball community with posts every day and leaping into the fray.

As for the topic at hand? I'm basically in Snaku's position... except instead of the fansubs I went and bought those godawful 'uncut dub tapes' for 20-25$ each thinking 'at last, an original version!'. The first episode I ever saw in Japanese was when Trunks showed up. And it's been dvds from there.

Oh, and it gets even more complicated when you start listing off character loyalties. Like how before anything at all in that list I'm a Nameccian girl through and through.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Come on guys. I thought we were grown-up enough to not obsess over name dro---OHMYGOD I'M ON THE LIST WTF I JUST SHOWED UP HERE SERIOUSLY O_____O

=p

You guys. ^_^

[NeptuneKai]

I'm angered and confused at the concept that there is more then one Kai of Neptune!

[Chuquita]

*Also feeling warm 'n fuzzy because she's on the list* X3

Aww, you guys are all so awesome.



I remember waiting for Daizex to open. The first time I visited was during its downtime where all that was up was an image of Goku and a brief message that the site would be returning soon.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Raki]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s, SonEric84’s, Yuugi’s Balck Magician’s, omegacwa’s, NeptuneKai’s, SSJ Kaboom’s, TripleRach’s, Thanos6’s, Tsukento’s, Castor Troy’s, Meri’s, Herms’, Kid Trunks’, Valesa’s, Super Ghost Kamikaze’s, Vekurotto’s… fuck even people with whom I generally disagree with nearly everything that comes out of their mouth like SSJ2Bardock, Xyex, and Rocketman (loveable prick that he is )… the list of fun cats just keeps going, and going, and going to the point where I could be here all day listing everyone.

I almost wanna say that I wish that the series stood underground so I could just enjoy it by myself (and with my real life friends like Onikage ) hassle and bullshit-free (like I do with HnK), but then I look at this forum and… fuck… I hate having a conscience sometimes.

Nice to see the regulars mentioned. I do consider this to be the only Dragonball forum online that means anything. If the detractors could see what we see in the series, I doubt they would be detractors that long.

[Kendamu]

I guess you could say I'm a pro-Ocean dub, Japanese dub convert.

My first exposure to the series was the Ocean dub in '97, and once Funi switched voice actors to their own I hated it. I gave them until the end of the Freeza saga before I stopped watching Funi's new dub. So I started watching the Japanese dub in bootlegs through snail mail, starting at Trunks' arrival. And that's how I finished the series.

I always wanted to hear the Ocean group's dub of the rest of the show, but copies of the episodes are so hard to find, and there's still no official release.

I had a similar history, but I never really got into the DVDs so much. Instead, I moved on to the various releases of the VIZ manga and eventually the Japanese version.

[Vekurotto]

Ranma ½ sold well enough amongst the early 90’s cult fanbase for Viz to press on and finish the whole damn series; and it was 161 episodes. So going by that kind of success, the concept wouldn’t have been TOO outlandish.

Yeah so if that was the case licensing the first 153 episodes wouldn't have been that difficult.

Dude… no. I’m not being rude in the least I’m really not, but just… that couldn’t be any further from the truth.

Yes Dragon Ball is intended for kids… Japanese kids. Culturally speaking though, what sells to Japanese kids has historically proven to also sell to much older Americans as well (otherwise we all wouldn’t be talking on this forum now would we?) due to their kids shows being treated with far more… adult sensibilities compared to the U.S.

Kids aren’t thought of as complete simpering idiots in Japanese culture apparently, and that makes their shows equally attractive to young American adults who are generally raised on and used to cartoons that treat them (quite literally in many cases) as if they’re mentally retarded.

That is true. I wouldn't disagree with that one bit. I find that a lot of Japanese entertainment minus a few things like Pokemon-esque type series really do have a mass age appeal unlike a lot of western entertainment where something is forever damned to being in a age group slot unless it's something like Star Wars or maybe even to a lesser extent the current WWE.

Um… guess what? Hokuto no Ken was in fact made for little kids in Japan too!

Yeah I knew that. It's just hmm, HnK doesn't really feel like it's for children half the time. The series kinda had the same impact on me like Crying Freeman did which is definitely not for children. But it didn't matter to me I rented it when I was about 12 from Hollywood Video and pretty much got no hassle for it because it was a cartoon. So I guess some good came out of the whole "cartoons=kids" mentality even though at the same time, not really. But back to HnK after a while the series does become to a point where it's like shounen series from now. The episodes that are HnK 2 I thought was a prime example.

And Dragon Ball was NEVER mocked as being “not adult enough” amongst its old cult fanbase. In fact, all its biggest critics at the time predominantly felt that the series WENT DOWNHILL when the series got more “serious” in Z. That’s right; original DB, while certainly not as visibly high profile, was all in all better liked generally (in what passed for the English speaking anime community at the time) than Z was in those days!

Well that's good to know about Dragon Ball. Particurally it seems like I think that back then nobody knew about anything until it showed up outside of Japan and I guess that's pretty naive of me. At least that was how it was with me and my anime experience . I'm also glad that people actually thought about stuff back then and respected the foundation that the series was created on unlike today where people are skipping entire arcs of content to get to "the fightins" and "the seriounesses" and had somebody else liscened Dragon Ball I don't think we'd be at the point where you can only find Z and even GT boxsets while finding any of the Dragon Ball sets would be laughable.

Far less people would’ve probably heard of DBZ. Almost assuredly. But speaking strictly from my own POV that would have absolutely no impact on me personally whatsoever, anymore than it does with HnK. I would’ve still been a fan, and I would’ve still eventually owned the whole series in some fashion, more than likely through Pioneer, or whoever would’ve wound up handling it.

Far as I myself am concerned, things would’ve worked out more or less the same for me except that I’d have the series in MUCH better picture quality (one way or the other) and would have to put up with absolutely none of the idiot fanboys and bullshit stigma that I do today.

I think that's a good point. If the series wouldn't have been a success we'd still have it somehow. Also yes like I said earlier I'd rather have had Dragon Ball the way it should be rather than having a horrible wikipedia and places were you just can't get any decent information other than a few places. Somehow though I can't shake the mentality that if Dragon Ball hadn't been treated the way it did then the anime community would be very different than it is today. Particularly I think that because of Funi's fuckups, and also the fuckups of many others but I think Dragon Ball moreso, that companies are more careful how they release series because very very rarely do you see people blatantly skip entire series or edit and rearrange episodes anymore. Dubs, same, there are more accurate, well acted dubs with zero edits than there are edited poorly acted dubs today and that's for almost everything anime and not just the direct to video releases even though more anime is direct to video than ever. And even subtitles and the Japanese track as well. Very rarely do you see dub only releases and if there is a problem with the Japanese track a company will respond. And with the subtitles themselves they've gotten more literal as time has gone on, which is good and also bad. I just can't seem to imagine where anime would be right now if now for the screwing up of Dragon Ball. I found a lot of good and bad things because of it that have happened since but that's just me though.

Oh yeah, and as for HnK… had Manga not handled their dub and DVD release in the FUNimation-esque braindead fashion that they did, it very likely would’ve sold much better, both to the HnK fanbase as well as the more “hardcore” anime market and presumably we’d have probably gotten all (or at least most) of it. But eh… that’s what Heart of Madness is there for.

Yeah that pretty much killed it. Thank God for HoM right now even though they had to have "fuck" in their subs. 'Nuff said on that cause if I go farther I'll get pissy about it.

[SonEric84]

I’d almost happily shrug and put up with widescreen bars, disappearing lines, and all the “SOOPER SAYAN VERGETAH IZ MAH BOOOIIIII!!!!!” douchebags in the world, rather than trade a handful of VegettoEX’s, Chiquita’s, Raki’s, Jerseymilk’s, MajinVejitaXV’s, Captain Awesome’s, SonEric84’s, Yuugi’s Balck Magician’s, omegacwa’s, NeptuneKai’s, SSJ Kaboom’s, TripleRach’s, Thanos6’s, Tsukento’s, Castor Troy’s, Meri’s, Herms’, Kid Trunks’, Valesa’s, Super Ghost Kamikaze’s, Vekurotto’s… fuck even people with whom I generally disagree with nearly everything that comes out of their mouth like SSJ2Bardock, Xyex, and Rocketman (loveable prick that he is )… the list of fun cats just keeps going, and going, and going to the point where I could be here all day listing everyone.

haha Thanks man. Also, I agree with the rest of your list, definitely cool people.


I don't really worry too much about the state of the "fandom" and the differences between people who like what version. Yeah, the dub has its mistakes but we're all fans of the same show. The only thing that really bugs me are when people (mostly seen on youtube) are all "LOL the JAPANESE VERSION SUCKZ, IT'S the GAY!!!" because for one, without the Japanese version these kids wouldn't have a show to watch, and two, there were mistakes in the dub that caused confusion in the storyline. I just don't see how you could embrace that over the original source material. The only place I really see anyone talk about Dragon Ball anymore is here on Daizex, so outside of this forum/site I don't really know too much about the fandom.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

The only place I really see anyone talk about Dragon Ball anymore is here on Daizex, so outside of this forum/site I don't really know too much about the fandom.

Last time I wandered into an anime-related board, I distinctly remember a bunch of snobbish kids saying that Dragonball "wasn't real anime", like the WORD "anime " was a stamp of quality rather than a butchered Japanese word used in an english-speaking context to mean animation originating from Japan.

Apparently, the very idea that Dragonball or any monster-collecting show could possibly be even given the "title" of "anime" was a high insult upon their intellectually superior "medium".