Live Action Movie Thread

[Bardock the Mexican]

Disclaimer: I’m seeing these images for the first time. I also haven’t read the entire thread. So don’t jump off the deep end if I say something you’ve heard before.

That said, the Piccolo costuming decision just angers me, plain and simple. It just screams “Hollywood alien! Hollywood alien!” The black, overgrowth-style, exoskeleton-like body suit is something we’ve seen before; yes, it’s “cool-looking,” but only in a generic villain sense (Or Dracula, with that embroidered red coat or whatever he has on). It just isn’t Piccolo!

Piccolo is green, people; there shouldn’t be any negotiating that. The greenscreen theory simply doesn’t apply here, because “greensceen” is just one of the many different possible physical set-ups for chroma keying, which is the substitution of a color or range of colors with a separate video track. The fact that Dragon Ball would have colorful blasts, etc. would do nothing to prevent the use of certain keys because most of those digital effects are added in after the background has already been composited. If Goku wore a blue gi and Piccolo had green makeup on, they could just as well used a fuschia key if they wanted.

So I don’t really buy that their hand was forced in not making him look the way he’s supposed to. I think they were just trying to make the movie version unique (perhaps for marketing purposes) and decided that a demon and/or alien look was all that was necessary for him. Now, it would have been one thing to revamp Piccolo, giving him an updated look from the ’80s incarnation, but that’s not what they’ve done here. They stripped out the most distinctive physical attributes of the character (note the lack of antennae and “fleshy parts”), and to me that just demonstrates a lack of respect for the source material.

While I realize these are all merely aesthetic changes, and his personality could be exactly like it is in the comics—I certainly don’t doubt Marsters as an actor and apparently dedicated fan of the originals—let’s get real here. Nearly every bit of news we’ve gotten about this thing indicates a dissent from the original. The “pro-movie” folk don’t seem to lend much significance to the facts that:

• The setting of this movie is wrong
• The costumes of all of the characters are wrong except for Goku after he changes out of his sweater-vest
• The age of Piccolo is wrong
• The henchmen, while resembling something ostensibly out of DB, don’t really look like the type of crowd Piccolo would hang out with at all, nor are they likely to have unique personalities since they all seem to be clones of each other
• EMI and TETO were invented for no apparent reason
• There’s all of a sudden a table of six monks which I can only hope aren’t a council of elders appointed to protect the Dragon Balls or something
• The Dragon Balls themselves don’t even look like Dragon Balls in any of the pictures we’ve seen
• The story has something to do with the alignment of the planets and a solar eclipse (snoresville)

The movie could still be amazing, but honestly, who cares? It isn’t going to be Dragon Ball; it will merely feature similar characters.

You have to understand that the transition to live action was made in a shaky way and it would be difficult to do otherwise. It would be nothing short of a miracle if they had been able to make anything look the way we all expect it to look. Even if it was 95% perfect there would still be a 5% that would be crap. Even if you look for the good/bad and focus on it, you lose your ability to appreciate the movie. It's best if you treat your memories of Dragonball as if they never happened while watching this movie. Just enjoy it for what it presents itself to be and don't take it too seriously. You have seen worse movies in your life.

[Captain Awesome]

It's best if you treat your memories of Dragonball as if they never happened while watching this movie.

And that to me, is the definition of a failed adaption.

If you have to forget everything you know about a property, to enjoy the film adaption, then it is truly a complete and utter failure.

[Chrono Trigger]

With 7 more months until this movie come out, we're probably gonna have this same discussion about 47 and a half more times. Failed adaptation, wait for a trailer, no negative opinions, if you don't like it then leave, why isn't he green, Chatwin never smiles, Roshi isn't bald, Bulma's hair isn't blue, Power Rangers, and blah blah blah.

[MisterFlashdude]

It's best if you treat your memories of Dragonball as if they never happened while watching this movie.

And that to me, is the definition of a failed adaption.

If you have to forget everything you know about a property, to enjoy the film adaption, then it is truly a complete and utter failure.

Seconded.

This is the most unfortunate outlook you can have for an adaption, seriously, and I'm so sorry that your experiences with this movie and other failed adaptions have brought you to this point.

If other adaptions took this train of thought, we'd never have had fond memories we'd always imagined come to life like this or this.

It isn't the inability to adapt a popular franchise well in general, no. It certainly isn't because Dragonball in particular would be too difficult to translate believably. This has just been a series of bad decisions from stage 1.

Really, it seems to me like the supporters of this movie have only had one thing to be glad about, and that's Goku actually showing up in orange.
I hate to say it, but sometimes getting the main characters their right color isn't enough when everything around them is utter shit.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

And that to me, is the definition of a failed adaption.

If you have to forget everything you know about a property, to enjoy the film adaption, then it is truly a complete and utter failure.

Really, it seems to me like the supporters of this movie have only had one thing to be glad about, and that's Goku actually showing up in orange.
I hate to say it, but sometimes getting the main characters their right color isn't enough when everything around them is utter shit.[/quote]

In that movie's defense, it has an awesome poster.

[xzero]

Bob-omb. (see above post; also, check out http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videol ... -the-movie for greater detail)

Realistically speaking, fans will never like the movie. The dilemma is pretty simple in that there are two choices to be made with regard to making the movie:

1) Make it a really accurate rendition, even going so far as to use the Funi voices for authenticity, and render it as perfectly as possible, either as a retelling (ala Path to Power) or a side-story (ala the DBZ movies), or

2) Make it for the non-fans, telling the bare basics of the story as it originally was and making the other 80-90% of the movie up for non-fans to the disregard of DBZ's fanbase.

The problem with option 1 is that it would be Power Rangers or Pokemon syndrome. Fans flocked to those movies back in the day, but ultimately they totally tanked in the ratings because non-fans were like 'WTF is a Pokemon?' The problem with option 2 is that it represents them not giving a crap about us, the fans.

I think the option that they saw before them was ostracization of the DBZ fanbase or of the general movie-going public. They made the business decision that the public was probably a larger constituency to cater to, and would probably be more inclined to see the movie, discarding respect for the fans along the way. I could be totally wrong about this, but my expectations are decidedly low for this film.

[Kaboom]

Xzero has a point. With Mario, there were really two ways they could have gone with it. Keep it super-faithful and end up with a cartoon, or make it realistic and end up with... what they ended up with.

With Dragon Ball, it's a little easier to find a middle ground. They strike a balance between the original cartoony and "magic" appearance the series had, and a more modern, sci-fi oriented action/superhero movie. Difference is, DragonBall has more going on for it in terms of plot and realism than something like Mario, giving them more recognizable material to work with than just "costumes." Aiming for this middle ground may result in a better overall movie than if they'd just made a straight-up live-action version of the manga.

For the time being, I'm willing to take the changes in appearance with a grain of salt, and trust what Mr. Marsters has told us: "There have been some changes, but it’s true to the heart of DragonBall."

Whether that sort of thing is true or not isn't going to be determined merely by costumes and makeup. That's going to depend on the acting, the story, and the creators' and actors' passion for the project. And signs in that regard are promising.

Here's to the next major news.

[Chuquita]

And that to me, is the definition of a failed adaption.

If you have to forget everything you know about a property, to enjoy the film adaption, then it is truly a complete and utter failure.
Really, it seems to me like the supporters of this movie have only had one thing to be glad about, and that's Goku actually showing up in orange.
I hate to say it, but sometimes getting the main characters their right color isn't enough when everything around them is utter shit.

In that movie's defense, it has an awesome poster.

I have to say, it doesn't say much for the movie when the quote they use on the poster is the decidedly neutral, but-could-be-taken-either-way, "Almost unreal".


I do think I saw that movie at some point, but it was ages ago. I remember it being a little creepy--what with the lizard-headed guys in suits.

[MisterFlashdude]

For the time being, I'm willing to take the changes in appearance with a grain of salt, and trust what Mr. Marsters has told us: "There have been some changes, but it’s true to the heart of DragonBall."

Am I the only person here who didn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Why does everyone in this thread attend the Church of Spike?

I learned a long time ago not to trust an actor or actress promoting their movie before the movie comes out, even movies I like. It's their job to say they're working on the next greatest movie ever and that the fans are going to love it.

It isn't until after the movie fails that the actor admits he's so horribly ashamed of the piece of trash he's brought to life that he's willing to refund the cost of admission for anyone who approaches him on the street...

[Chuquita]

If it helps, I've never seen Buffy or Angel before, so I don't really have any opinion on Marsters at all.

[Velasa]

postpost

Alright- I read the intro to your post and I understand that this is the first time you've run into this stuff. I've been following this religiously and I'll reply with what we know.

On Daimaou- pretty much everyone is upset about his coloring, particularly me. Marsters had said distinctly about being green in previous interviews though, so the thought now is that Daimaou fresh from the Denshi is paled, but when he's young again/Pic he's actually green. I actually like his costume- black and red armor on a Daimaou man? I'm all for that. But there have been complaints on that as well, and that's a matter of opinion. He actually is the right age though- as this is Daimaou, not Pic, and he’s suppose to be so old most people had forgotten he was real and not a story.

Costuming- moreso matters of opinion, with some people for and some against (except basically everyone loves/can go with that kame gi adaptation).

Fulum- there was a few pages of discussion on them just a little back in the post and hopefully someone can link you to the start point.

School stuff/setting- The current thought/hope is that this part is just small and in the beginning and then we get back to the Dragonball part. Apparently Teto's scenes were filmed in a day and he is not Son's best friend. On the monks, they're probably from the Dragon temple- the man at the top of that shot is the guy playing Mutaito- and at least in my opinion, the order of monks is pretty cool because (especially given as Mutaito's there) they're the people who actually remember that Daimaou was real all that time ago and they're still keeping an eye on him. In that picture, it may be the Denshi jar at the center of the table.

Dragonballs- that shot from the recent trailer picture set does look odd, but we don't know what the situation is there. Possibly the balls aren't active/are trying to activate/who knows. In other shots, Son is always shown with the four star ball and it has its stars.

Story- that stuff all sounds like it's just being used to get Daimaou out of his jar and then we'll get back to the Dragonball.

Though, any of these things could suddenly get better or worse in Postproduction. We really just don't know.

[SonEric84]

If it helps, I've never seen Buffy or Angel before, so I don't really have any opinion on Marsters at all.

You're not missing much. (Although I am sure plenty of people will beg to differ. Nothing against Marsters though, I just can't stand those shows.)

[Daburcor]

For the time being, I'm willing to take the changes in appearance with a grain of salt, and trust what Mr. Marsters has told us: "There have been some changes, but it’s true to the heart of DragonBall."

Am I the only person here who didn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Why does everyone in this thread attend the Church of Spike?

I learned a long time ago not to trust an actor or actress promoting their movie before the movie comes out, even movies I like. It's their job to say they're working on the next greatest movie ever and that the fans are going to love it.

It isn't until after the movie fails that the actor admits he's so horribly ashamed of the piece of trash he's brought to life that he's willing to refund the cost of admission for anyone who approaches him on the street...

I love the 'Buffyverse' (mostly Angel) and am a fan of James Marsters, and I don't trust his word on this one iota. He can say "Yeah, it's Dragon Ball!" all day long, but that doesn't mean he's right or truthful... whether he's a fan or not. Someone telling me something's good, especially when they're involved in making it (and even more so when it's something that isn't out yet), means nothing to me. I find it best to form my own opinion on things.

Batman & Robin is terrible... I get the same feelings looking at the info and screens from this movie as I did seeing Batman & Robin in theaters; And none of them are good.

[Xyex]

The setting of this movie is wrong

How so? Because we've got 10 to 15 minutes of a Highschool before we go to the desolate wastelands and forests and volcanoes? There's nothing in this movie that doesn't appear in Dragonworld.

The costumes of all of the characters are wrong except for Goku after he changes out of his sweater-vest

Considering the only costumes in the series are gis anyway....

Roshi's got his gaudy shirts (and perv shirts too, for that matter!). Goku's got both gis, something I never expected. The only things off are Roshi not being bald or having (far as we've seen) glasses and 'Daimou' not wearing a gi. Though we don't know what 'Piccolo' will wear yet.

The age of Piccolo is wrong

So he's an exta 1700 years old, big deal. XD They probably felt that 300 years wasn't long enough for him to become nothing more than legend to the world.

And honestly, I kind of agree with them, from a real world perspective. The real world doesn't forget as fast as people in Dragonworld seem to forget. I'm sure Daimou was pure legend again by the time Raditz arrived. >>

The henchmen, while resembling something ostensibly out of DB, don’t really look like the type of crowd Piccolo would hang out with at all, nor are they likely to have unique personalities since they all seem to be clones of each other

While this is true, I don't see the Fulum being anything more than generic foot soldiers (much like the generic Foot Soldiers from the Turtles movie) they've still got Mai. And let's face it, Mai's a lot more fun to stare at for 2 hours than Tamborine would be.

EMI and TETO were invented for no apparent reason

Last I checked, there were people in cities and schools.

Though, honestly, they're just background characters. The exist for the same reason that Background Person #5869 in the Android Arc exists. To fill the world. Only they get to have a name and a few lines as well, that's all.

There’s all of a sudden a table of six monks which I can only hope aren’t a council of elders appointed to protect the Dragon Balls or something

I don't remember seeing this shot, but from what I've seen mentioned it sounds like it's Mutaito and his students prior to imprisoning Daimou.

The Dragon Balls themselves don’t even look like Dragon Balls in any of the pictures we’ve seen

That Dragonball was glowing pretty brightly, so who knows. And since this is leaked stuff anyway it's possible that it hadn't been fully finished in post production yet. For some... odd reason they're adding the stars in post.

The story has something to do with the alignment of the planets and a solar eclipse (snoresville)

It's a minor plot element. So what?

[SonEric84]

Am I the only person here who didn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

Nope, you're not the only one.

[Kaboom]

and 'Daimou' not wearing a gi. Though we don't know what 'Piccolo' will wear yet.

The bottom half of Lord Piccolo's outfit is a pair of baggy gi pants, like we've seen in the latest picture. The top, "armor" half of his costume, with the swirly designs, are supposed to imitate the green and pink patterns on series-Piccolo's arms and torso.

[Olivier Hague]

There's nothing in this movie that doesn't appear in Dragonworld.

Sure. For example, God knows that whenever I think of Dragon Ball, I think of dark caves or badly lit interiors.

The only things off are Roshi not being bald or having (far as we've seen) glasses

There's the beard, too, but I can't blame them: there are limits to special effects, after all.

EMI and TETO were invented for no apparent reason

Last I checked, there were people in cities and schools.
Though, honestly, they're just background characters.

So. How was the movie?

That Dragonball was glowing pretty brightly, so who knows. And since this is leaked stuff anyway it's possible that it hadn't been fully finished in post production yet.

Maybe they still don't know how big exactly they should be...

The story has something to do with the alignment of the planets and a solar eclipse (snoresville)

It's a minor plot element. So what?

Besides, that's kinda clever: yet another way to make things dark (and possibly Xtreme). You wouldn't want blue skies in your Dragon Ball, would you? That would feel so out of place (and possibly gay).

[MisterFlashdude]

I really hate these sentence by sentence responses, but since I'm being specific in my criticism, I hope you'll endure it with me.

The setting of this movie is wrong

How so? Because we've got 10 to 15 minutes of a Highschool before we go to the desolate wastelands and forests and volcanoes? There's nothing in this movie that doesn't appear in Dragonworld.

Because Dragonball's cities are populated by and ruled over by Anthropomorphic animal folk, and the wilderness is full of giant dinosaurs. Their approach to a "City of the Future" is flawed, in my opinion... as Toriyama's technology is primarily hover vehicles and capsules, with the rest of the technology being normal.
Though, if they actually featured hoi-poi capsules, I'd forgive any other design flaws with the city.

And it doesn't matter how long they show Goku in school. It could only last for one minute, it could only be one scene of him walking away from the school and saying goodbye to his friends, but it's still a drastic departure from the character.

The costumes of all of the characters are wrong except for Goku after he changes out of his sweater-vest

Considering the only costumes in the series are gis anyway....

Roshi's got his gaudy shirts (and perv shirts too, for that matter!). Goku's got both gis, something I never expected. The only things off are Roshi not being bald or having (far as we've seen) glasses and 'Daimou' not wearing a gi. Though we don't know what 'Piccolo' will wear yet.

Right. Kame-sen'nin is ancient looking, bow-legged, bald, has a long white goatee/beard, and constantly wears a pair of shades in addition to a button top, shorts, flip-flops and a giant turtle shell.
Chow Yun-fat is uh... pretty much the antithesis of just about every quality that makes up the character. But you're right! At least they got the shirt right... Sort of...
In addition, they seem to have followed through with him being a homeless beggar for some reason.

Piccolo bares an uncanny resemblance to a toss-away Star Trek alien, and just about every character suffers from 'Take-me-seriously' syndrome; A condition that requires a requisite amount of black in the costume while subduing all other instances of color.

By the way... is the Piccolo we've seen in the screen shots really supposed to be the "Old" version? He doesn't look all that old to me...

The henchmen, while resembling something ostensibly out of DB, don’t really look like the type of crowd Piccolo would hang out with at all, nor are they likely to have unique personalities since they all seem to be clones of each other

While this is true, I don't see the Fulum being anything more than generic foot soldiers (much like the generic Foot Soldiers from the Turtles movie) they've still got Mai. And let's face it, Mai's a lot more fun to stare at for 2 hours than Tamborine would be.

I guess Piccolo looking like a generic Star Trek villain means he needs generic alien looking foot soldiers. I really think it's a shame that they won't be putting the effort forward to recreate the multitude of henchmen that Piccolo actually spawned in the manga, I'd have liked to see them in place of these 'Fulum' even if they had to remain nameless.

EMI and TETO were invented for no apparent reason

Last I checked, there were people in cities and schools.

Though, honestly, they're just background characters. The exist for the same reason that Background Person #5869 in the Android Arc exists. To fill the world. Only they get to have a name and a few lines as well, that's all.

Yeah! They're exactly like the nameless, lineless background characters! Except that they have names.. and lines.. and roles in the storyline..
Anyway... A casualty of throwing Goku and Chi-chi in school means they need to make up new characters to compliment the ridiculous premise that Goku's in school.

The story has something to do with the alignment of the planets and a solar eclipse (snoresville)

It's a minor plot element. So what?

Yes. Like Goku's highschool. Totally minor.
Seriously though, how many times do we have to sit through the planets aligning?
Again, when you screw with the story, you have to paste it back together with these... uh... "tried and true" plotlines...
Why they can't have Pilaf make a cameo appearance as the hapless idiot who frees him? I d'no. It just wouldn't be as cool as an eclipse, I guess.

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on you, but all this dismissive behavior trying to glaze over this movie's glaring failures is frustrating me.
I promise I'll avoid making piece-by-piece posts like this in the future.

[omegacwa]

Well, if we are talking about movies that depart a lot from the original story, I have to bring up Silent Hill. That movie was actually pretty decent, even though it's story wasn't very accurate to the games, new characters were made up even though there was plethora to choose from, the lead was change from a father to a mother, Pyramid Head was used even though he had no relevance, and the whole clut storyline was botched. Yet, some how they nailed the Silent Hill feel. SO that's what I am hoping for with this movie, that they will at least nail the feel of it. This movie already has more accurate things going for it than the Silent Hill movie, so that's a plus.

[Kaboom]

To build on what omegacwa just said, a lot of the negative viewpoints seems to be based on the false assumption that they somehow HAVE to have everything be the same as the manga. They don't. They pick and choose what they do or don't need to tell their story, and carry things over accordingly. That's what 's an "adaptation" is.

By its very definition, it means "changed in order to work outside of its normal environment." Going into this movie judging it solely by how perfectly or otherwise it mirrors the manga is the completely wrong way to look at it. It's not going to be exactly the same, nor is or was it ever meant to be. Very few things of its kind can or should be.

I get the feeling a lot of people are only setting themselves up for disappointment when they see it and all they can let themselves think is "that's not how the MANGA did it."

We're not getting the DragonBall manga in live-action. We're getting a live-action movie based on the DragonBall manga.

Just like the Iron Man and Spider-Man were based on their comic books. Just like the Lord of the Rings films were based on the books by J. R. R. Tolkien. Just like The Passion of the Christ was based on the crucifixion stories from the gospels. The credits of this movie will say "based on the series by Akira Toriyama," not "the series by Akira Toriyama with real people." There's a big difference, and it should be judged accordingly.

It's something separate, like original storylines in the games, or how the 10th Anniversary Movie retold the early parts of DragonBall. The latter of the two had just as many offenses in story as this movie: Kuririn was omitted, Pilaf and his cronies were omitted, it skipped right to the RRA as the villains, no Ozaru, no Launch, Goku was splitting the skies from powering up and firing off HUGE Kamehamehas WAY sooner than he could in the series, etc... It was drastically different from the manga in a lot of ways, but I don't see anyone calling it horrible or citing it as an "insult" or an "abomination" or whatever.

So why, in light of and in contrast to that, is this movie from FOX automatically receiving so much widespread hate, before it's even released? Just because it's in live-action? Just because it's being made by a western studio? Given the medium and the development, OBVIOUSLY things aren't going to LOOK the same as the manga, nor is it logical to expect them to. But in terms of that and story, it's an original work, meant to accompany the manga and "be its own thing." To hold it up against the manga, and cite the differences as fatal flaws, is simply unfair. If you're going to judge this movie, judge it by its own standards, not the manga's.