Rocketman wrote:
For once it's not about that. It's that KKx20 Goku has to be weaker than 50% Freeza, otherwise the Kamehameha (which has been stated to be much stronger than its user, since the energy is concentrated) would've overwhelmed him.
The Kamehameha was nearly triple Goku's power when he used it against Raditz.
Eh, one of the reasons I think Toriyama so desperately needed to shed the corner he'd written himself into with power levels. The whole power level increase for a focused attack was basically ignored in the Freeza Saga, and would be a bitch to constantly calculate. You do have a point though- it with KKx20 and a very potent Kamehameha he kinda singed Freeza's palm. Yet in the Cell Saga he nails Cell with one and almost kills him. So Freeza must have been a good deal stronger than him with KKx20, and not exactly even as the Daizenshuu implies.
On Gohan vs Cell- Goku doesn't think Cell was at full power. He does say Cell is exhausted, which Cell confirms (he's very impressed with the effect of the senzu, and calls Goku a fool). But Gohan says that neither Goku or Cell was fighting at full power, or that the battle was all that impressive. Goku admits that he was maxed out, but that he "didn't know about Cell." And didn't he also tell Cell that he knew he couldn't beat him? So obviously Goku didn't think they were on a roughly even plane, or he would have just taken a senzu himself.
Goku also didn't know about SSJ2, as was said before. He was counting on Gohan getting angry. He basically assumed that Gohan, who at rest considered Goku's best to be dogging it, would be able to smite Cell with ease if he was pissed off enough. In this case he reasons for his rage and his level of power were sufficient to take him "beyond the Super Saiyan wall," but strictly speaking I don't think it was necessary. It would have been to defeat Super Perfect Cell, but not necessarily Perfect Cell. Think about it- Perfect Cell was much weaker than SSJ2 Gohan, to the point of being a joke. So his power, while vast, was in the high end of SSJ1.
On the Buu Saga, the Daizenshuu isn't infallible. In issues of contradiction, the manga is the highest authority. Hold the two volumes side by side, with Gohan facing off with Kibito and Gohan vs Dabura. Claiming Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura would be like claiming Vegeta was SSJ2 immediately after being Majined.
But y'know? It doesn't even matter. Both times, Vegeta states that Gohan was putting out less than when he fought Cell. The first time, he remarks that times of peace are bad for a warrior. The second, he tells Goku that the two of them are better than Gohan,
due to his lax training regimen. Later, before Gohan goes to confront Dabura again, Goku tells him to let himself get angry, the same as when he unleashed on Cell. He says if he can bring that side of himself out, noone cane stop him.
So it wasn't Dabura who was holding back in that fight, it was Gohan. Dabura was tough, but we can't take his declarations at face value. He told Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan to attack him at once. Let's be honest- the guy, while on the upside of the fight, couldn't deliver a decisive blow to the unfocused and sloppy Gohan. How would he have handled the heavily trained and lethally focused Vegeta (whom many on here even argue was SSJ2) and the already-revealed-to-be SSJ2 Goku individually, let alone in a 3 vs 1 fight?
To show my appreciation, I'll only beat them half to death.
