How did Goku achieve SSJ2 and 3?

[rkpres17]

I was wondering about this after watching DBZ "season 5" and "season 6" back to back. Goku initially turned Super Saiyan out of rage and to quote (or at least paraphrase) Goku while he was training Gohan, "in response to a need".

I can understand how and why Vegeta managed to turn SSJ2. He felt rage that Goku died the way he did and felt a need to keep up with Gohan, which feeds into making the anger even worse since it's Goku's son he's keeping up with.

But what type of scenario would cause Goku to transform in the afterworld?

[Kaboom]

From the looks of it, the rage or likewise burst of emotion only seems necessary for breaking through to the first level. With SSj2, Gohan needed a little "push" in order to let loose and reach it, but he was already capable. Goku and Vegeta both reached it through intense training on Earth, and Goku, who was already ahead of Vegeta, managed to go even further and achieve SSj3, as well.

[Rocketman]

The same way Gohan turned SSJ1 in the Time Chamber - get strong enough, then get angry.

To add fan-musing, maybe he had to get angry while a Super Saiyan; like, do the Super Saiyan transformation while already transformed.

[Captain-Sora]

Meh, I just think he got it through training, I mean, Goten and Trunks didn't exactly have a major need throughout their lives, unless wanting something like a toy pulled it off, but that would be down right nutty no?

Bah, the whole SSJ idea just went out of loop after "SSJ2 Gohan" which I thought was supposed to be just "SSJ Gohan Power Unleashed/Rage mode/etc" or something.

[goodguy777]

Meh, I just think he got it through training, I mean, Goten and Trunks didn't exactly have a major need throughout their lives, unless wanting something like a toy pulled it off, but that would be down right nutty no?

Maybe, Goten and Trunks were some kind of Saiyan mutation. It was also stated that Human-Saiyan breeding produces a "stronger race".

[SSJ2bardock]

Maybe, Goten and Trunks were some kind of Saiyan mutation. It was also stated that Human-Saiyan breeding produces a "stronger race".

That concept got thrown out after the saiyan saga.

[Kaboom]

Bah, the whole SSJ idea just went out of loop after "SSJ2 Gohan" which I thought was supposed to be just "SSJ Gohan Power Unleashed/Rage mode/etc" or something.

It strikes me like that, too. I've come to view the three golden-haired SSj stages as just escalating levels of the same thing. Like skyscrapers. Super Saiyan is one building, with multiple floors, Ozaru is another building, and then Super Saiyan 4 is the skybridge connecting the top floors of them both.

The transformation requiring a burst of rage is like having to break a window to get into the SSj building. From then, you can just take the elevator up. A tail is like having a keycard to gain access to the Ozaru building.


Hooray for analogies!

[Rocketman]

Meh, I just think he got it through training, I mean, Goten and Trunks didn't exactly have a major need throughout their lives, unless wanting something like a toy pulled it off, but that would be down right nutty no?

Our top scientists and researchers have discovered the exact moment where Goten went Super Saiyan for the first time.



Astounding.

[Xyex]

Yeah, I think SSJ2 and SSJ3 are triggered merely by level of power. Once a person reaches a certain level of strength in their SSJ form and then tries to push beyond that level they instead transform to the next. In Gohan's case it was just his normal anger power burst that pushed him beyond the "SSJ2 Threshold" to cause the transformation. With Goku and Vegeta it was likely just regular old training.

I mean, look at Gotenks. Goten and Trunks could only go to the first level about, what, a week in the RoSaT and Gotenks is at level 3? Gotenks would have easily had the needed level of strength to trigger the forms, he was stronger than Goku after all, so in light of his SSJ3 abilities it makes sense.

[Captain-Sora]

Meh, I just think he got it through training, I mean, Goten and Trunks didn't exactly have a major need throughout their lives, unless wanting something like a toy pulled it off, but that would be down right nutty no?

Our top scientists and researchers have discovered the exact moment where Goten went Super Saiyan for the first time.



Astounding.

A....A-At least that's a change from DBZ constipation jokes.

[goodguy777]

Maybe, Goten and Trunks were some kind of Saiyan mutation. It was also stated that Human-Saiyan breeding produces a "stronger race".

That concept got thrown out after the saiyan saga.

But it makes sense, Gohan, Goten and Trunks were stronger than a regular Saiyans.

[SSJ2bardock]

Maybe, Goten and Trunks were some kind of Saiyan mutation. It was also stated that Human-Saiyan breeding produces a "stronger race".

That concept got thrown out after the saiyan saga.

But it makes sense, Gohan, Goten and Trunks were stronger than a regular Saiyans.

Goten and Trunks never passed up Goku and Vegeta, 2 "regular saiyans", and Gohan pretty much cheated to get his power boost.

[goodguy777]

That concept got thrown out after the saiyan saga.

But it makes sense, Gohan, Goten and Trunks were stronger than a regular Saiyans.

Goten and Trunks never passed up Goku and Vegeta, 2 "regular saiyans", and Gohan pretty much cheated to get his power boost.

Because they lacked training and if you look at it, childhood of Vegeta and Goku were weaker than the childhood of Goten, Gohan and Trunks.

[Bussani]

Bah, the whole SSJ idea just went out of loop after "SSJ2 Gohan" which I thought was supposed to be just "SSJ Gohan Power Unleashed/Rage mode/etc" or something.

It strikes me like that, too. I've come to view the three golden-haired SSj stages as just escalating levels of the same thing. Like skyscrapers. Super Saiyan is one building, with multiple floors, Ozaru is another building, and then Super Saiyan 4 is the skybridge connecting the top floors of them both.

The transformation requiring a burst of rage is like having to break a window to get into the SSj building. From then, you can just take the elevator up. A tail is like having a keycard to gain access to the Ozaru building.


Hooray for analogies!

This is always how I saw it too, although I think there are certain points/levels where the transformation becomes more stable or easier to maintain. SSJ2 is much more efficient than USSJ, for example. Think of it like trying to climb that SSJ skyscraper without falling off, then every so often you reach a flaw that stops you falling so easily somehow.

Not a great analogy there...meh.

[Kaboom]

Earlier on in the series, Gohan got MUCH more out of training than Goku ever did at his age. To delve into the dark pit of power levels for a moment, Goku was at around 400 at age 20, and Gohan was over 1000 at age 5, just from half a year's worth of training with Piccolo. Then 3 years of training with Goku and Piccolo, and another year-ish with Goku in the RoSaT, and he was the most powerful Super Saiyan around.

[Victator Supreme]

Maybe, Goten and Trunks were some kind of Saiyan mutation. It was also stated that Human-Saiyan breeding produces a "stronger race".

That concept got thrown out after the saiyan saga.

Except for future Trunks and Goten and Trunks being incredibly powerful. They acheieved power in their childhood that Goku and Begeta never dreamed was possible.

[Miracles]

I always thought Goku attained Super Saiyan 2/3 through fighting and training in Heaven. Unlike Gohan and Vegeta who needed anger to go above and beyond.

[Horgus]

I think part of the reason Vegeta got less out of training than Goku/Gohan is because Vegeta never wanted to train with anyone else.

When he and Trunks went into RoSaT, they both trained alone.

When Goten and Trunks went in, they trained together and made excellent gains (even if they cheated with Fusion).

Vegeta always trained by himself, and that held him back. I think the anime tries to imply this at certain areas.

EDIT: Additionally, I think that the Vegetto fusion also sort of implies what immense potential they would have if Goku and Vegeta were ever to train together.

[Pain]

I think part of the reason Vegeta got less out of training than Goku/Gohan is because Vegeta never wanted to train with anyone else.

When he and Trunks went into RoSaT, they both trained alone.

When Goten and Trunks went in, they trained together and made excellent gains (even if they cheated with Fusion).

Vegeta always trained by himself, and that held him back. I think the anime tries to imply this at certain areas.

Very well put.

[Dayspring]

It was always my thought that, because of all the "surpass/beyond/above SSJ" talk, SSJ2 and SSJ3 were merely streamlined forms of USSJ and USSJ2. That is, USSJ was an imperfect form of SSJ2 and USSJ2 an imperfect form of SSJ3.

When Vegeta, Future Trunks and Goku trained in the RoSaT, they achieved USSJ levels by stressing themselves out like crazy. I think this stress is merely how they simulate anger, which is only one of two necessary components required to achieve any given level of SSJ. It also takes a lot of strength/power/energy which they hadn't achieved yet at that time.

Gohan is an exception, however. His inner strength was always a product of his anger, so when he became angry during the Cell Games, rather than just produce enough stress to achieve USSJ, he also gained the power he needed to create a successful SSJ2 transformation.