What are people's opinion on GT?

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:21 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Quick question, if something did not change when transitioning from life to death to life again with the Artificial Humans how do you explain #17 and #18 contributing to the Genki Dama at the end of the Buu arc in the manga? Oh and by the way, those kids are almost in their thirties by that time.

#17 and #18 are human-based cyborgs. #18 gave birth to a live human child. It stands to reason that they should put forth a normal human amount of ki. #19 is an android, built from scratch, devoid of true life (and thus, any actual ki). To be honest, him even having passed into the afterlife should count as a plothole.

And fine, the younger guys. Gawd, I'd hate to hurt their feelings or anything :p

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Onikage725 wrote:#17 and #18 are human-based cyborgs. #18 gave birth to a live human child. It stands to reason that they should put forth a normal human amount of ki. #19 is an android, built from scratch, devoid of true life (and thus, any actual ki). To be honest, him even having passed into the afterlife should count as a plothole.

I always figured the reason they couldn't be sensed was not because they had no ki at all, but because it was near-impossible to differentiate their ki from any other normal human's. Or, perhaps the process of "de-humanizing" them and replacing various parts with mechanical components decreased their amount of natural ki, to the point where they were indistinguishable from an animal or something.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:05 am

Onikage725 wrote:#17 and #18 are human-based cyborgs. #18 gave birth to a live human child. It stands to reason that they should put forth a normal human amount of ki. #19 is an android, built from scratch, devoid of true life (and thus, any actual ki). To be honest, him even having passed into the afterlife should count as a plothole.

Well maybe artificial intelligence is counted in the same manner as other organic creatures when they go for judgment and if for some strange reason they come back to life, they have Ki. Possibly the two Saiyans noticed #19’s movements or some bull like Kakarrot talked about sensing air currents when he fought Yakon. All I am saying is that what most people call plot-holes big enough to drive an 18-wheeler through can be explained away in some manner using the data we have on hand. When I first saw Dragonball GT I noticed all those things but when I really thought about it they were not a big deal after all and I went on to enjoy the show.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:16 am

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:18 am

GT was alright for what it was. I saw most of it but not all.

Jackal puFF · Post by **Jackal puFF** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:28 am

GT sucked for me. It was okay at best. Things would always annoy me everytime I would watch it.

Trunks looking like a total wimp compared to his future counterpart.

Everyone is weak, everyone..

Goku being a kid was pretty annoying too.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:29 pm

I never really separated Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. I looked at it as one big continuing story. When I was a kid, I was dying to see Dragon Ball GT...which is weird when you think about it, since I didn't even get to see any of Dragon Ball, or more than 50 something episodes of Dragon Ball Z. But, GT was floating around the internet with pictures of Super Saiyan 4 and whatnot, and I just used to think how cool that was. Remember, I'm talking 4th/5th grade here. At that time, Dragon Ball Z was like the biggest thing. I recorded every episode of Dragon Ball Z. I knew it was Japanese, but I really didn't care. I knew it had a Manga, but hey, it was in Japanese, what did I care? It was basically a feeling that I got off the series. So, how does that relate to GT?

I was a huge fan of the show. When they started banging out new episodes it was like...Godly to me. I watched and recorded every episode of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball that came on Toonami. And then in 2003, Dragon Ball GT hit. I remember at the time, I had Entertainment Weeklys come to my house and there were two pictures of GT DVDs and it was...painful because I wanted to see it so bad, but thought I'd never own the entire show on DVD, which is something I've been wanting since I was a kid. So then GT came on Cartoon Network... And... I watched the first episode, the second...and then didn't watch any of it. I occasionally watched it and I enjoyed the scene where Vegeta fights Baby Gohan.

Then of course, I got the entire thing on DVD because I found it to be vital that I own the entire series. In fact, besides the "Path to Power" movie, the first DVD of the Lost Episodes was the very first DVD I got of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, or Dragon Ball GT. I enjoyed the first and second episode (not the ones they showed on TV, these are after all the "lost episodes"). Then, I skipped the Lost Episode DVDs 2-5 and got the rest of the series. And it was very boring. The music was disgustingly terrible (the dub, the original music I felt was incredible). It was just so boring.

I felt it was either really entertaining, or horrible, it had no medium. Super Saiyan 4 was awesome, I LOVED Vegeta's new Yamcha/Gohan hair (though DESPISED the mustache and original hair change), I loved the fight between Gohan and Baby Goten, I loved the fight between Vegeta and Baby Gohan, I loved the interaction they had between Vegeta and his family, I loved Uub or... "Majuub", I loved the fight between Super 17 and Goku, I loved the little tiny bit where Hell's fighters come back and Vegeta kills Nappa again, I loved Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta, I loved Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, I loved the idea of the Evil Shenrons, I loved the Universal Spirit Bomb, and I loved the ending. BUT... I hated like everything else. Them in space was just...eh, I hated how they portrayed Trunks and Goten, I hated the stupid weird ass part where Goku was playing an inter-dimensional game, I hated how Old Kai was "training Goku" by making him grind coffee beans, I hate how they fought all those stupid ass Evil Dragons, I HATED how Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta acted, and how the fights were so ridiculously short. Oh yeah, and that they didn't give anyone a chance other than Goku...who was a little kid. Why a little kid? I mean yes, it's cute, brings me back to the Dragon Ball series, but come on!

However, I'd never go so far as to say, "it didn't exist" because it did exist. If you go by the Manga, it didn't, but in the Anime it did. And that's how I'd like to keep it. No matter how terrible, you can't simply say it didn't exist. Especially since Akira Toriyama was slightly involved in it. I think it's biggest downfall was that people weren't ready for it. It came out too early. And it strayed so much from the other series. If it had come out 5-10 years after it did, maybe the world would be a bit more ready for it. It's kind of like a sequel to a movie. If a sequel comes out one year later, followed by another one a year after that, eventually people are going to say, "who cares?" But if you let it sizzle and have people remembering the great series, and rise demand...then people would explode for it. It's what FUNimation did, and GT sold very nicely for them. Even with the Ultimate Uncut line. I mean, it's episodes we've seen again and again and again until we couldn't stand it. And yet, they released them again 5 years later with a different voice cast (though practically the same dialog) and a handful of added scenes (not talking about the editing) and people were watching it...a lot!

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:26 pm

Like the majority of DB fans - I think it sucks.. Don't really hate it per se, just dislike it and anything it stands for... (including "Dan Dan") and I don't see my opinion changing anytime soon..

There is filler I enjoy a lot more. I can't be arsed though to explain why,, but it would be for the reasons most others don't care for it. Plus I don't like how they gave some of characters like Trunks, bigger noses.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:11 pm

For the most part, I dislike GT. The concepts for the arcs aren't what erks me..it's just the way they were executed; the direction of the fights, the animation, the pacing..all really lackluster. Also, in terms of the animation, in most instances, most of the characters look like they're made out of some form of elastic. However, I'm reserving full, complete judgement upon the series until I finally get to see the series in it's entirety.

ultimatedbzfan · Post by **ultimatedbzfan** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:16 pm

I know people will agree with me on this. Goku's attitude sucked in GT. In DBZ, Goku was a very cunning and taticial fighter. But in Gt, he never thought anything through. Always rushing into battle, and getting his ass handed to him.

Minigt · Post by **Minigt** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:04 pm

ultimatedbzfan wrote:I know people will agree with me on this. Goku's attitude sucked in GT. In DBZ, Goku was a very cunning and taticial fighter. But in Gt, he never thought anything through. Always rushing into battle, and getting his ass handed to him.

Agreed. They were like totally different characters. Personally I pretend GT never happened. Who the hell would give Vegeta a moustache!

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:43 pm

ultimatedbzfan wrote:I know people will agree with me on this. Goku's attitude sucked in GT. In DBZ, Goku was a very cunning and taticial fighter. But in Gt, he never thought anything through. Always rushing into battle, and getting his ass handed to him.

One could argue upon being turned into a kid Goku's body began to flow with a bunch of new Saiyajin testosterone making him just want to get out there and fight. His constant increased hunger could be a testament to this too.

Goku was very headstrong as a child originally in Dragonball, such as charging into the Red Ribbon base with nothing but a red stick. Or charging after Cymbol ignoring Muten Roshi's warnings about the "Ma" clan.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:05 pm

ultimatedbzfan wrote:I know people will agree with me on this. Goku's attitude sucked in GT. In DBZ, Goku was a very cunning and taticial fighter. But in Gt, he never thought anything through. Always rushing into battle, and getting his ass handed to him.

I disagree. Goku was made more like his early self, and I found this to be very endearing.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:49 pm

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:07 am

I enjoyed what I have seen of it (random episodes here and there on Toonami). It has the highest quality animation of the whole series and it is just all around fun to watch. I don't see why some people dislike it so much. I mean, I do not consider it part of the canon necessarily, but as a new take on where the series could have gone. I very much enjoyed the early episodes (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga) as well as the Evil Shenlong arc. I haven't really seen any episodes from the Super 17 arc, and I have only seen a few from the Bebi arc, so I cannot comment on those quite yet until I view them.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:26 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Well maybe artificial intelligence is counted in the same manner as other organic creatures when they go for judgment and if for some strange reason they come back to life, they have Ki. Possibly the two Saiyans noticed #19’s movements or some bull like Kakarrot talked about sensing air currents when he fought Yakon. All I am saying is that what most people call plot-holes big enough to drive an 18-wheeler through can be explained away in some manner using the data we have on hand. When I first saw Dragonball GT I noticed all those things but when I really thought about it they were not a big deal after all and I went on to enjoy the show.

I dont think that level of fanon should be required. I mean... yeah, I have theories to explain away inconsistencies too. But having to tell myself that soulless automatons are granted souls when destroyed, and if they are somehow resurrected get to become real boys is pushing it. Looking at the other end, if all they went on was the sound of movement or air currents, then... lucky guess guys! If the implication wasn't supposed to be that they sensed a large negative ki source, then these two who never met #19 would be acting very recklessly by firing blindly into alley based on strange sounds. That coulda been a fricken refugee.

No. Toei thought it would be a cool scene, and they didn't do the research. It *was* a cool scene, that whole sequence was. But I appreciate it when a story has just a little internal consistency.

ACCloud · Post by **ACCloud** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:55 am

Personally, I really disliked GT. Before I watched it I knew it was non-cannon so I went in with an open mind but seriously...
For some reason after becoming a kid again, Goku loses all his experience and sense and became, for me, a really annoying character. And I'm a huge Goku fan.

Also, as many other people have said, all the other characters apart from Goku don't get much screen time at all which leads to scenarios like
Trunks:"Hey Goten, wanna do a fusion to create an ultra-cool SSJ3 adult Gotenks?"
Goten:"Yeah, sure!"
Goku:"Don't worry about it, I'll take care of this enemy which defeated Vegeta and Gohan, who is also stronger than me, using only my base form!"
(Actually the Gotenks part really did happen in the Bebi saga)

But I believe the absolute worst thing GT does is that it kills Toriyama's ending. Basically, Uub (or Oob if you want) was being trained by Goku to be the next 'Protector of Earth', in otherwords take over Goku's role (as is also illustrated in the 'new' ending of the manga in which Uub is compared to Goku when riding on Kinto'Un); a role which he had been trying to pass on since the Cell Saga. Goku's story was over as he moved on from protector to teacher. However in GT, even after fusing with Majin Buu (Mr. Buu), Uub, set up by Toriyama to be the next hero of Earth, is tossed aside like a ragdoll while Goku in base form continues the fight.

But still, if you're a Dragon Ball fan you should still watch GT, even if it is only so that you can say that you've seen it. At the very least, Super Saiyan 4 is cool (even though the design makes no sense by comparison to the previous forms).

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:59 pm

Onikage725 wrote:...Looking at the other end, if all they went on was the sound of movement or air currents, then... lucky guess guys! If the implication wasn't supposed to be that they sensed a large negative ki source, then these two who never met #19 would be acting very recklessly by firing blindly into alley based on strange sounds. That coulda been a fricken refugee.

That could be the answer, if they did not feel the Ki of an average human or animal then they figured it was an Artificial Human, if androids do not receive anything that identifies them as living beings upon their return to life (if you want to call it that).

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:48 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:That could be the answer, if they did not feel the Ki of an average human or animal then they figured it was an Artificial Human, if androids do not receive anything that identifies them as living beings upon their return to life (if you want to call it that).

Two flaws there.

1. Normal animals, as shown by Sea Turtle, have power levels below 1. Surely any animal that would frequent an urban alley would be in that range or less. I seriously doubt while hunting for some of the strongest villains in the series, they're going to be able to discern a huge difference between 0.001 (Sea Turtle's PL) and 0.

2. Goten and Trunks have little experience with Artificial Humans, outside of their time around #18 (who would just feel like someone who could constantly supress to like a 5, similar to when Trunks took out Freeza's crew). They have no experience with #19's model, the 100% artificial variety. Trunks was an infant and Goten wasn't born. They're first assumption, based solely on the facts given in the series, wouldn't be "Noise? Android!"

Sweet icon btw. All I hear when I look at that is Scott McNeil >.>

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:15 pm

Onikage725 wrote:Two flaws there.

1. Normal animals, as shown by Sea Turtle, have power levels below 1. Surely any animal that would frequent an urban alley would be in that range or less. I seriously doubt while hunting for some of the strongest villains in the series, they're going to be able to discern a huge difference between 0.001 (Sea Turtle's PL) and 0.

Just because someone can sense a large Ki that does not mean that, they cannot fine-tune their abilities to where they can feel a Scouter rating of 1. Is there anything in the manga, anime, Daizenshus or movies that prove this is the case? Now you can argue that they were lazy and did not train but they had to have been able to do some after all Trunks performance throughout GT outdid anything that Son Gohan did in GT.

2. Goten and Trunks have little experience with Artificial Humans, outside of their time around #18 (who would just feel like someone who could constantly supress to like a 5, similar to when Trunks took out Freeza's crew). They have no experience with #19's model, the 100% artificial variety. Trunks was an infant and Goten wasn't born. They're first assumption, based solely on the facts given in the series, wouldn't be "Noise? Android!"

They may not have had experience with the other Artificial Humans but they could have been told all that they needed to know throughout the years by their parents. I believe that Toei treated the Artificial Humans in the manner that they did was because of Toriyama depicting #17 and 18# contributing to the Genki-Dama at the end of the Buu Saga. They were just going off what Toriyama laid out so I cannot blame Toei for their actions.

Sweet icon btw. All I hear when I look at that is Scott McNeil >.>

Thanks, that image of Dr. Wily was the closest thing I could find that depicted someone that looks like a professor acting like a Saiyan. However, I really wanted an image of the one of the doctors from the Bardock special and the Freeza Saga but I could not find one.