Is Goku just a dumb jerk?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:25 am

Kid Trunks wrote:
Chuquita wrote:I mainly mean characters who seem like suped up self-insert characters. Characters who seem like the author took their own personality as a template and wrote their ideal self into their manga; and who according to the author and other characters in the story "can do no wrong" even when they do wrong.
Hmm...sounds like a Steven Seagal movie to me.

Bumbaklaat!!!!!!

Yeah, Goku is a terrible father. Leaving his family 3 times is enough for me to pull the bad dad card.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:47 am

Raki wrote:Yeah, Goku is a terrible father. Leaving his family 3 times is enough for me to pull the bad dad card.

Uub is one, what's the other two?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:56 am

Hey, Yardrat sounds like fun!

Hey, I don't wanna come back- I can fight cool tough guys for seven years! I have a pregnant wife, huh? Nah.... she'll be fine.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:56 am

The only other two times I can think of were the ones where he died. (I still say his 2nd death could've been avoided and is the shared fault of bad decisions made by Vegeta - for letting Cell become perfect thinking he could defeat him in that form, Gohan - for going all "I want him to suffer!" instead of killing off Cell quickly, and Goku himself for giving Cell a senzu bean.)

Technically Goku's 1st death could've been avoided as well had he not listened to Raditsu's pleas; but if Goku hadn't died that first time there would've been no way they could've beaten Nappa and Vegeta.

EDIT: Forgot about Yardrat.

To be fair, did Goku know for sure that Chi-Chi was pregnant when he died the 2nd time? I'd find it hard to believe he'd willingly stay dead if he knew she was pregnant.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:29 am

Chuquita wrote:To be fair, did Goku know for sure that Chi-Chi was pregnant when he died the 2nd time? I'd find it hard to believe he'd willingly stay dead if he knew she was pregnant.

I doubt he did know. But even still, I hate how willing Goku is to die. As if he were happy about it.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:34 am

Chuquita wrote:To be fair, did Goku know for sure that Chi-Chi was pregnant when he died the 2nd time? I'd find it hard to believe he'd willingly stay dead if he knew she was pregnant.

Thus the added 'huh?' and the 'nyeh.... she'll be fine'.

I haven't actually seen Buu yet due to miriad of shit with dvd release times- does Son seems startled to have a tiny seven year old shadow when he pops back in?

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:55 am

The manga kinda glosses over it, but yeah, he's a bit weirded out in the anime, so it's clear he had no idea.

And hey, it's Goku - can we really expect him to know what causes pregnancy?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:31 am

Velasa wrote:Hey, Yardrat sounds like fun!

Controlled the Super Saiyan and learned a technique that saved everyone several times over.

Hey, I don't wanna come back- I can fight cool tough guys for seven years! I have a pregnant wife, huh? Nah.... she'll be fine.

Second death, can't come back, Shenron had already said so before Goku's farewell speech. Except on New Namek's Dragonballs....which nobody but he could get to.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:59 am

In Dragon Ball, between every tournament, they have Goku going off, completely forgetting his friends and doing his own thing. Which was fine, because they're his friends, no big deal, right? Then came Dragon Ball. The first death I believe could not have been avoided. What happened, happened. And his only way to be powerful enough to defeat the Saiyans was to train with King Kai and he knew it.

However, he could have come back to Earth after Namek, but decided to stay on Yardrat, as someone already mentioned.

Then he decided to stay in Other World for 7 years. But then again, he gave a good reason. He should have been dead a long time ago, it was only natural. Plus, he felt that villains targeted him, so he wanted to keep the Earth safe... Doesn't work out, but it's a fun thought.

Then, there were those 10 years that passed between the death of Kid Buu and the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament. Apparently, Goku did not visit his friends for 5 years. And then of course, he goes off for (apparently) 5 years to pal around with Uub.

Goku seems to have no problems leaving everything behind just to fight and become stronger. But you can't fault him. He's carefree. That's his whole thing. It's not that he doesn't love his family and friends, it's that he just doesn't know any better. There are people like that. Where if any of his friends or family are hurt, he'd be sad and want to avenge them, but that doesn't necessarily mean spending time with them. People shouldn't forget that he was just a dumb, naive, carefree kid living in the woods by himself for like 11 years (it's been 11 years between the time he hit his head and met Bulma, so I'd say that the Giant Ape Goku stomped down Gohan around that time).

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:56 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:However, he could have come back to Earth after Namek, but decided to stay on Yardrat, as someone already mentioned.

I don't know about you guys, but if I had just turned into a snarled rage-filled warrior of ultimate destruction, I would stay well away from anyone I cared about until I was sure I wouldn't go psycho on them.

Then he decided to stay in Other World for 7 years. But then again, he gave a good reason. He should have been dead a long time ago, it was only natural. Plus, he felt that villains targeted him, so he wanted to keep the Earth safe... Doesn't work out, but it's a fun thought.

Shenron already said he could not bring Goku back.

Then, there were those 10 years that passed between the death of Kid Buu and the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament. Apparently, Goku did not visit his friends for 5 years. And then of course, he goes off for (apparently) 5 years to pal around with Uub.

While the whole Uub thing is just dumb, Goku did stay with his family for those ten years after Buu, which was what the topic was.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:01 am

Rocketman wrote:Second death, can't come back, Shenron had already said so before Goku's farewell speech. Except on New Namek's Dragonballs....which nobody but he could get to.

What about that nice little Ginyu Pod Goku arrived back on Earth in? Or those spaceships Dr. Briefs kept churning out in the Freeza Saga based on Goku's old ship.

Hell, their wish could have been to... go to New Namek!

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:02 am

Rocketman wrote:While the whole Uub thing is just dumb, Goku did stay with his family for those ten years after Buu, which was what the topic was.

If folks want to take things like Nejo Majin into any account, looks like Goku eventually brought Uub back to live with them at the Son household anyway. Wouldn't be too hard to do once Uub learned how to fly.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:13 am

Sprite Satan wrote:What about that nice little Ginyu Pod Goku arrived back on Earth in? Or those spaceships Dr. Briefs kept churning out in the Freeza Saga based on Goku's old ship.

They don't know were New Namek is.

Hell, their wish could have been to... go to New Namek!

Better hope the Namekians agree to the whole deal, then.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:21 pm

Wouldn't be too hard to do once Uub learned how to fly.

Uub can ride on kintoun/numbus. It was shown that he could in the extended version to the Dragonball manga ending (Kanzenban?).

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:22 pm

In GT, Goku does say that he hasn't seen been home in a while (at least the dub does.)

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:30 pm

First of all, I like Superman. He can very easily be a very deep character, depending on who writes him. He's been around over 70 years, of course he's going to have a few bad writers.

As for Goku, yes he's quite a bit selfish in regards to fighting and family responsibility.

But "forcing his family to live off the Budokai winnings" is hardly terrible responsibility...he EARNED that money. And Gyumao's fortune isn't being used for much anything else, apparently...he's a rather laid-back guy when you get down to it at the end of Z. If he has enough left-over treasure to support himself and his family for a few years while living a carefree lifestyle, then why not? Besides, Goku earned it, didn't he? By retrieving Roshi and getting him to agree to help out the guy, he basically saved the fortune from eternal flames...didn't he?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:32 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:....Plus, he felt that villains targeted him, so he wanted to keep the Earth safe... Doesn't work out, but it's a fun thought...

I never bought that “villains targeting him” him jazz. Kakarrot always had to play Superman and get involved with things. Raditz came looking for him because they were brothers which is understandable and because no one knew that the Scouters worked as two-way radios Nappa and Vegeta showed up, then Freeza over heard and it went down hill from there. The Artificial Humans and Cell came about because of the history with Dr. Gero. The problem was not necessarily Kakarrot it was because he and Bulma kept jacking around with the Dragonballs, which put others in danger. If they had left them alone or once they were found hid them and let nature take its course and once someone died leave them dead none of that nonesense would have happened. Now Buu would have been a major problem but if things would have played out differently there would not have been anyone with a strong enough combat power to revive him/it.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:55 pm

Nobody ever awarded Goku a prize for being the smartest guy on Earth. I'm sure he didn't think of it as deeply as you did. What's with the "Kakarrot" thing? Eh nevermind. Point is, despite if he was smart enough to figure anything out or not, he chose to abandon his friends and family many times.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:18 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:I never bought that “villains targeting him” him jazz. Kakarrot always had to play Superman and get involved with things. Raditz came looking for him because they were brothers which is understandable and because no one knew that the Scouters worked as two-way radios Nappa and Vegeta showed up, then Freeza over heard and it went down hill from there. The Artificial Humans and Cell came about because of the history with Dr. Gero. The problem was not necessarily Kakarrot it was because he and Bulma kept jacking around with the Dragonballs, which put others in danger. If they had left them alone or once they were found hid them and let nature take its course and once someone died leave them dead none of that nonesense would have happened. Now Buu would have been a major problem but if things would have played out differently there would not have been anyone with a strong enough combat power to revive him/it.

-Raditz came to Earth to get Goku.
-Freeza and King Cold came to Earth to get Goku.
-The entire Android/Cell mess was intended to get Goku.

You can stretch it a bit to include Piccolo Jr, too.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:18 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I never bought that “villains targeting him” him jazz. Kakarrot always had to play Superman and get involved with things. Raditz came looking for him because they were brothers which is understandable and because no one knew that the Scouters worked as two-way radios Nappa and Vegeta showed up, then Freeza over heard and it went down hill from there. The Artificial Humans and Cell came about because of the history with Dr. Gero. The problem was not necessarily Kakarrot it was because he and Bulma kept jacking around with the Dragonballs, which put others in danger. If they had left them alone or once they were found hid them and let nature take its course and once someone died leave them dead none of that nonesense would have happened. Now Buu would have been a major problem but if things would have played out differently there would not have been anyone with a strong enough combat power to revive him/it.
-Raditz came to Earth to get Goku.
-Freeza and King Cold came to Earth to get Goku.
-The entire Android/Cell mess was intended to get Goku.

You can stretch it a bit to include Piccolo Jr, too.

Yeah but the whole Freeza clan came after him because of the Dragonballs and the Artificial Humans came after him because what happened in the past because of the Dragonballs and Raditz was family which eventually lead to the Saiyans coming after Kakarrot because of the Dragonballs. Piccolo Jr., came after him because of Piccolo Daimaô event which was connected to the Dragonballs.

Just when you thought Kakarrot learned his lesson in GT at the end of the Evil Dragons arc, 100 years after those events he sends his descendent (Goku Jr.) down the same path by explaining how the Dragonballs work and how he needs to collect the others. If Goku Jr. and Pack becomes buddies with Vegeta Jr. which would most likely have a Dragon Radar if Giru is still around or make a new one that is if he inherited the Brief’s genius and all three start jacking around with the Dragonballs the big mess will start all over again. Kakarrot is even a terrible great-great-great-grandfather (?).