McGonnagal!! LOLOLOLROFLMAO!!!111oneone
Right. Okay. Anyway...
Don't write it. Only obsessive fangirls write crossovers. Do you want to be a fangirl!? If they catch on to you, the American government will kidnap you and rehabilitate you while publicly executing your stuffed animals with special guns that fire poison-filled bullets that explode into sharp metal shards upon impact. My cousin, Diana once thought of writing a crossover fiction for a few seconds. The government immediately caught her and used a special drug to erase her short-term memory. Don't Let The Same Thing Happen To You!
Anyway, if there ever was a useless method of censoring it would be bleeping things out. ''*BLEEP* you!!''. Oh gee. I wonder what he possibly could have said. *Gasps* Not... ''Darn''?
Character Bashing thoughts...? (More fanfic stuff)
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Zackarotto
- I Live Here
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- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:17 am
That's not the American government. That's us.Dai wrote:Do you want to be a fangirl!? If they catch on to you, the American government will kidnap you and rehabilitate you while publicly executing your stuffed animals with special guns that fire poison-filled bullets that explode into sharp metal shards upon impact.
Well, Dai, that was a very... energetic post... yet... HOW DARE YOU THREATEN MY STUFFED ANIMALS YOU FREAK!!!
Sorry, lost it for a second there. Fangirl? What, does it make you a girl to think about love? I'm a [straight] male and have something of a romantic side. Trunks is supposed to be a lady's man, right? Well, how come we never see him in a relationship?
Anyway, it's not a romance fanfic anyway. It's more action and drama (lightly coated with comedy). The basic gist is that I (a human given a blood transfusion by Vegeta, which is preceded by more story than I'd like to describe) wander the worlds of fiction in an attempt to thwart interdimensional chaos perpetrated by the newly resurrected Sauron (from the Lord of the Rings). My companion is none other than the somewhat insipid Agent Smith (of Matrix fame), who, with his army of clones, becomes the ultimate muscle man when things get too hot under the collar for me. Is he untrustworthy? Of course. But he's the best damn sidekick one could ask for. Why he would agree to such a position is still in the works... any ideas?
One of our little escapades brings us to Hogwarts, where our orders are to prepare anyone and everyone we can for the very likely possibility of invasion by Sauron's minions. Magic is useless because Sauron can control and manipulate every facet of it (After all, he wasn't given the nickname "The Wizard" for nothing, now was he?). So, we must gain their trust and train them to use... other methods. I then must cope with Draco Malfoy's (undeserved) hatred of me and the fact that the students are scared shitless of Smith, who, despite his temporary role of "good guy," is still just as cold, heartless, and intimidating as ever.
The lovey-dovey part is kept to a minimum and the story itself is somewhat complicated. I try not to showcase the Z Fighters' monumental (in comparison with the other heroes') abilities until near the end when it all counts.
If this post seems unorgaized it's because I wrote it and I'm proud of it.
Sorry, lost it for a second there. Fangirl? What, does it make you a girl to think about love? I'm a [straight] male and have something of a romantic side. Trunks is supposed to be a lady's man, right? Well, how come we never see him in a relationship?
Anyway, it's not a romance fanfic anyway. It's more action and drama (lightly coated with comedy). The basic gist is that I (a human given a blood transfusion by Vegeta, which is preceded by more story than I'd like to describe) wander the worlds of fiction in an attempt to thwart interdimensional chaos perpetrated by the newly resurrected Sauron (from the Lord of the Rings). My companion is none other than the somewhat insipid Agent Smith (of Matrix fame), who, with his army of clones, becomes the ultimate muscle man when things get too hot under the collar for me. Is he untrustworthy? Of course. But he's the best damn sidekick one could ask for. Why he would agree to such a position is still in the works... any ideas?
One of our little escapades brings us to Hogwarts, where our orders are to prepare anyone and everyone we can for the very likely possibility of invasion by Sauron's minions. Magic is useless because Sauron can control and manipulate every facet of it (After all, he wasn't given the nickname "The Wizard" for nothing, now was he?). So, we must gain their trust and train them to use... other methods. I then must cope with Draco Malfoy's (undeserved) hatred of me and the fact that the students are scared shitless of Smith, who, despite his temporary role of "good guy," is still just as cold, heartless, and intimidating as ever.
The lovey-dovey part is kept to a minimum and the story itself is somewhat complicated. I try not to showcase the Z Fighters' monumental (in comparison with the other heroes') abilities until near the end when it all counts.
If this post seems unorgaized it's because I wrote it and I'm proud of it.
Yeah, Goten can be a ladies' man, but I decided to reduce him to comic relief out of spite.
I can understand the anime/RP problem. Try as I may, I can't see Vegeta in real life. It's just too much... hair. Don't get me started on SS3 Goku. The image of someone without eyebrows is weird enough, but they had to add fifty pounds of golden nightmare to his cranium. Anyway, originally, the expressions of anyone who encountered a "Toon" in the fanfic was supposed to be shocked because they looked... two-dimensional. But that was too corny, a la Roger Rabbit. I decided to leave it to the readers imagination.
In looking at the plot development, I'm trying to add some stuff in for poor Yamcha and Tien. I also have a totally new "alternate identity" for the Matrix's Oracle. I always thought she'd make a good villain. I mean, think of it: an old black lady who bakes cookies. The epitome of evil, right? Okay, the identity is not an original character, but it's a connection you would NEVER imagine. But feel free to guess, I want to see if I'm a predictable in fiction as I am in reality.
I can understand the anime/RP problem. Try as I may, I can't see Vegeta in real life. It's just too much... hair. Don't get me started on SS3 Goku. The image of someone without eyebrows is weird enough, but they had to add fifty pounds of golden nightmare to his cranium. Anyway, originally, the expressions of anyone who encountered a "Toon" in the fanfic was supposed to be shocked because they looked... two-dimensional. But that was too corny, a la Roger Rabbit. I decided to leave it to the readers imagination.
In looking at the plot development, I'm trying to add some stuff in for poor Yamcha and Tien. I also have a totally new "alternate identity" for the Matrix's Oracle. I always thought she'd make a good villain. I mean, think of it: an old black lady who bakes cookies. The epitome of evil, right? Okay, the identity is not an original character, but it's a connection you would NEVER imagine. But feel free to guess, I want to see if I'm a predictable in fiction as I am in reality.
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Deus ex Machina
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1917
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:47 am
Fanboy?? FANBOY!? What is with you people?! I know a lot about DB, just like you! I just happen to know a lot about Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Cheers, and the Matrix, a bit about Harry Potter and a smidgeon about Star Trek as well, and THAT makes me a fanboy?!?!
p.s. I also know a lot about Power Rangers, Pokemon, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but I've almost left those behind.
p.s. I also know a lot about Power Rangers, Pokemon, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but I've almost left those behind.
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Super Sonic
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5171
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:45 pm
Sorry, Zack. My bad. The incredibly horrifying and manipulating way the Fangirl Hunters govern their regime just got me mixed up in names. Silly me!
And Johnboy, I am quite fully aware you're a man. I just thought using the infamous title of ''fangirl'' would strike more fear in your heart and lead you away from a path that would guide you straight to Project AFTER.
Now, you might ask why I called you such names. Well, let's get the rundown of the fic you're writing, shall we? First of all, you inserted yourself in what will undoubtedly be a rather Mary Sue-ish way. That's FanFiction Recognition Failure Rule #1. Then, you decide to cross over multiple dimensions for the sole reason of having your favourite characters from each interact, despite how illogical or entirely impossible to the characters this might be. FanFiction Recognition Failure Rule #2. Third, you bring back characters from the dead using some farfetched and convoluted method, simply because you like them so much. Rule #4, buddy. And if all that's not bad enough, you decide to have your favourite bad guys be good guys, no matter how oscene this might be compared to their real personalities. Tossing around character's personalities? That's a major Rule Number 5 right there, daddio.
To an extremely cynical mister sarcasm such as myself, this only leads to the conclusion that this fanfic cannot be anything but a failure. Of course, there is an incredibly tiny margin of chance that you can pull this all of in a sensible and readable way, but that would require superhuman powers and an obscenely high IQ.
I am sorry. I'm just too cynical because of previous experiences to even see a tiny margin of hope in such a project, unless it were to be a parody/comedy fiction.
And Johnboy, I am quite fully aware you're a man. I just thought using the infamous title of ''fangirl'' would strike more fear in your heart and lead you away from a path that would guide you straight to Project AFTER.
Now, you might ask why I called you such names. Well, let's get the rundown of the fic you're writing, shall we? First of all, you inserted yourself in what will undoubtedly be a rather Mary Sue-ish way. That's FanFiction Recognition Failure Rule #1. Then, you decide to cross over multiple dimensions for the sole reason of having your favourite characters from each interact, despite how illogical or entirely impossible to the characters this might be. FanFiction Recognition Failure Rule #2. Third, you bring back characters from the dead using some farfetched and convoluted method, simply because you like them so much. Rule #4, buddy. And if all that's not bad enough, you decide to have your favourite bad guys be good guys, no matter how oscene this might be compared to their real personalities. Tossing around character's personalities? That's a major Rule Number 5 right there, daddio.
To an extremely cynical mister sarcasm such as myself, this only leads to the conclusion that this fanfic cannot be anything but a failure. Of course, there is an incredibly tiny margin of chance that you can pull this all of in a sensible and readable way, but that would require superhuman powers and an obscenely high IQ.
I am sorry. I'm just too cynical because of previous experiences to even see a tiny margin of hope in such a project, unless it were to be a parody/comedy fiction.
[url=http://www.projectafter.com]Project AFTER[/url]: Every fanfiction's worst nightmare.
Because he's not supposed to be a lady's man. That's my crazy theory anyway.johnboy1 wrote:Trunks is supposed to be a lady's man, right? Well, how come we never see him in a relationship?
Anyway, Dai is 100% correct here. Sure, you can break every rule of fanfiction (and just plain "fiction") writing and still produce a masterpiece. You can create a Mary-Sue story where badguys become good, dead people wander around, and you get it on with Hermione-who-is-now-18-and-not-14-you-sick-fucks-so-be-quiet-I-love-her, and it could be the greatest piece of fanfiction ever. But there's a 99.9999999999999% chance it will be terrible. Doesn't matter that you're proud of it, since everyone else who has written the exact same story is proud of it.
I don't want to be harsh, but I am just pointing out that you could be setting yourself up for disappointment. How many people here, after reading this:
...thought "Oh dead God, no!"? And that's just the first paragraph.The basic gist is that I (a human given a blood transfusion by Vegeta, which is preceded by more story than I'd like to describe)
Romana: "I don't think we should interfere."
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
Well, thank you. That was very well-constructed criticism. I say "thank you" because it was much more fact-based than a simple "oh dear God no!" However, I'd like to defend myself, going in the order of Dai's rules.
Rule #1: I don't know who Mary Sue is, so I can't comment.
Rule #2: Yes, I want them to interact, I'm not afraid of saying that. However, I try to make it make sense by using the "interspace" plot device used in the PS2 game Kingdom Hearts. The whole we-must-keep-the-worlds-from-being-overrun-by-Sauron bit gives it a purpose. The fact that this takes place 6,000 years after the LotR means I'm actually GIVING UP a chance to cross-over some of my favorite characters.
Rule #3: I'm not sure if you're talking about Smith or Sauron, but I have an explanation for both. My fanfic interferes with the Matrix timeline before Smith dies. Sauron, if you read the actual text of LotR, is never said to be "dead" in a literal sense, the immense loss of power after the ring was destroyed just put him into a sort of spiritual "coma." Who's to say he will never come back?
Rule #4: I'm not trying to pull a Vegeta on Agent Smith, just so you'll know. When the story is over, I try to make it clear that he's just as sadistic and cruel as he's always been. Sauron has been interfering with his purpose (destroying the human race), and so he must take on a role of "good guy" simply because, well, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Some would ask me "Why not make him the main villain and ally with Sauron?" In my imagination, Smith would be MUCH more trustworthy than Sauron, but that's just me. Even then, Smith is sort of forced into the deal after having an a close (and very unnerving) encounter with Vegeta.
The Harry Potter thing was thrown in recently to provide some "quiet time" in the middle of the story. It plays out sort of like an industrial-sized version of the Karate Kid. The Vegeta blood transfusion is necessary for the plot, as otherwise I'd be some average Joe who'd get creamed by the first opponent I come up against. "Why would Vegeta do something like that?" Is what you're asking. You see, I have a tendency to grow on people (this is in real life, not just the fanfic), and at this point, I've been living with the Briefs for a few years, waiting for Bulma, the everlasting know-it-all, to find me a way home. Still, I'm contemplating having Gohan or Trunks give it to me instead.
Rule #1: I don't know who Mary Sue is, so I can't comment.
Rule #2: Yes, I want them to interact, I'm not afraid of saying that. However, I try to make it make sense by using the "interspace" plot device used in the PS2 game Kingdom Hearts. The whole we-must-keep-the-worlds-from-being-overrun-by-Sauron bit gives it a purpose. The fact that this takes place 6,000 years after the LotR means I'm actually GIVING UP a chance to cross-over some of my favorite characters.
Rule #3: I'm not sure if you're talking about Smith or Sauron, but I have an explanation for both. My fanfic interferes with the Matrix timeline before Smith dies. Sauron, if you read the actual text of LotR, is never said to be "dead" in a literal sense, the immense loss of power after the ring was destroyed just put him into a sort of spiritual "coma." Who's to say he will never come back?
Rule #4: I'm not trying to pull a Vegeta on Agent Smith, just so you'll know. When the story is over, I try to make it clear that he's just as sadistic and cruel as he's always been. Sauron has been interfering with his purpose (destroying the human race), and so he must take on a role of "good guy" simply because, well, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Some would ask me "Why not make him the main villain and ally with Sauron?" In my imagination, Smith would be MUCH more trustworthy than Sauron, but that's just me. Even then, Smith is sort of forced into the deal after having an a close (and very unnerving) encounter with Vegeta.
The Harry Potter thing was thrown in recently to provide some "quiet time" in the middle of the story. It plays out sort of like an industrial-sized version of the Karate Kid. The Vegeta blood transfusion is necessary for the plot, as otherwise I'd be some average Joe who'd get creamed by the first opponent I come up against. "Why would Vegeta do something like that?" Is what you're asking. You see, I have a tendency to grow on people (this is in real life, not just the fanfic), and at this point, I've been living with the Briefs for a few years, waiting for Bulma, the everlasting know-it-all, to find me a way home. Still, I'm contemplating having Gohan or Trunks give it to me instead.
I'd still advise against it, just because the number one rule of crossovers is "Make sure the things you're crossing over are compatible." As in, a "Slayers" and "Lodoss War" crossover (as they're both fantasy anime) would make a little sense, but I can find nothing compatible between Harry Potter and Dragonball Z. >__> Nothing at all. And that's discluding the other cross overs you're putting in -- like the Matrix.
Also, a Mary-Sue is a generic term for a super-perfect character (usually female, but they can be either). They tend to be beautiful, smart, multi-talented, and everyone depends on them to save the day. In DBZ terms, they tend to be Saiyan or female Nameks. They also tend to have half the cast in love with them. >__> Very annoying, as you might imagine.
Also, a Mary-Sue is a generic term for a super-perfect character (usually female, but they can be either). They tend to be beautiful, smart, multi-talented, and everyone depends on them to save the day. In DBZ terms, they tend to be Saiyan or female Nameks. They also tend to have half the cast in love with them. >__> Very annoying, as you might imagine.
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oponok
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 5:02 pm
- Location: I... I don't even know anymore...
Nothing crosses over with Dragonball. Nothing. Consider that even Tien or Yamcha could blow up Earth (since their powers eventually surpass Vegeta's level when DBZ started). NO VILLIAN CAN COMPETE WITH THAT, NOT FROM ANYTHING. I'm betting not even Satan (non-Mr.).
Vegeta's (Saiyan) blood may not be completely compatible with a human's via tranfusion, since they're technically two different species.
I don't think Vegeta is the type who would trust people with his blood. Also, wouldn't they check his blood, possibly discovering he's an alien? They'd haul him off to Area 51 faster than you or I could fathom. I think he'd put that into consideration and decide not to go through with the transfusion before someone found out his identity and he has to go live "E.T."
You're idea's just not realistic, like DRAGONBALL Z is. That there's real life.
Girls don't go out with adult (GT) Trunks. I think they gain certain preconceptions of his sexuality via his attire.
Agent Smith has better things to do, nevermind having out with a bunch of kids. And why would he need anyone else's help? And so does that mean Hogwartz is part of the Matrix, and what they thought was magic was really the manipulation of their reality? Same as DBZ and ki?
Also, Vegeta would kick Agent Smith's ass.
Vegeta's (Saiyan) blood may not be completely compatible with a human's via tranfusion, since they're technically two different species.
I don't think Vegeta is the type who would trust people with his blood. Also, wouldn't they check his blood, possibly discovering he's an alien? They'd haul him off to Area 51 faster than you or I could fathom. I think he'd put that into consideration and decide not to go through with the transfusion before someone found out his identity and he has to go live "E.T."
You're idea's just not realistic, like DRAGONBALL Z is. That there's real life.
Girls don't go out with adult (GT) Trunks. I think they gain certain preconceptions of his sexuality via his attire.
Agent Smith has better things to do, nevermind having out with a bunch of kids. And why would he need anyone else's help? And so does that mean Hogwartz is part of the Matrix, and what they thought was magic was really the manipulation of their reality? Same as DBZ and ki?
Also, Vegeta would kick Agent Smith's ass.
"In fact, the United States Alf Fanfiction Department has issued notices offering high paying jobs for more Alf fanfiction, which they believe could immediately resolve countless global issues such as world hunger."
I know, cross-overs with Dragon Ball are always a little off because of the power difference, but I can't just have them wipe out army after army, now, could I? I have Sauron discover that one thing proven to disable ki blasts: Destron Gas. Thank you, "OVA." This mostly reduces the Z Fighters abilities to where they must go hand-to-hand with their opponents. While they are still much more superior, they have to take their opponents out one at a time. Couple that with the fact that they face quite a few opponents at once, and the odds are almost evened.
It would make sense for a transfusion to work. Why? If a human and a Saiyan could actually mate and produce a child, then it would make sense that their blood would be compatible. If not, I can have Trunks do it, since his human DNA might fill in the blanks.
If I have Vegeta do it, I could explain that he wants his children to be martial artists, right? It would make sense. He is obviously disappointed that Trunks and Bulla are not the least bit interested anymore. Perhaps he sees in me his last chance. If that's too sappy, then I'll go with Gohan or Trunks, since they would do it out of the goodness of their hearts and may pay the doctors off not to check the blood.
Of course it's not realistic, hence fan-FICTION.
Ay, yeah, I forgot about the threads Trunks decides to wear. But it always seemed to me like he SHOULD be a lady's man. I guess that's just a mistake on my part.
Agent Smith does NOT like hanging out with a bunch of kids. That's why there's so much tension between them. A lot of times he just spaces out and focuses on what his other clones are doing. He needs help because the machines are producing Agents as well as other soldiers with new defense capabilities, meaning he can't absorb them. Sauron, of course, is behind the scenes running just about all the "villainous empires." It's too much story to drag on about here, but the reason Smith can go to Hogwarts and the like is that he finds a way to leave the Matrix in his original form, and not through a person who's jacked in (that always sounded kind of dirty to me). Hogwarts exists in it's own dimension.
Of course Vegeta would kick Smith's ass. I pointed that out when I said "Even then, Smith is sort of forced into the deal after having an a close (and very unnerving) encounter with Vegeta." Besides, one of the underlying themes in the fic towards the end is that all the "great" fighters are starting to get old. Saiyans may retain youth and strength beyond humans, but by the end of the story, Vegeta is pushing 80.
Oh, I understand the "Mary Sue" stuff now. Thanks, parron. My character is, at best, a Mary-Sue-wanna-be. I try to be good, to do the right thing, but my character is directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in the story. I even spawn a villain that's even more sadistic than Sauron.
I know Sauron is an odd choice for the "Biggest Bad Guy Boss" award, but I chose him because his personal appearances in Tolkien's work are minimal at best. That gives me something to work with as far as creativity. Think about it. We know Vegeta's a jerk. We know Smith's a psychotic megalomaniac bent on revenge. We know the Sith (as well as Voldemort) are shadowy deceivers also bent on revenge. But what do we REALLY know about Sauron? He has a thirst for domination and order, but that could apply to a multitude of bad guys. He's a good character to "make stuff up" with.
It would make sense for a transfusion to work. Why? If a human and a Saiyan could actually mate and produce a child, then it would make sense that their blood would be compatible. If not, I can have Trunks do it, since his human DNA might fill in the blanks.
If I have Vegeta do it, I could explain that he wants his children to be martial artists, right? It would make sense. He is obviously disappointed that Trunks and Bulla are not the least bit interested anymore. Perhaps he sees in me his last chance. If that's too sappy, then I'll go with Gohan or Trunks, since they would do it out of the goodness of their hearts and may pay the doctors off not to check the blood.
Of course it's not realistic, hence fan-FICTION.
Ay, yeah, I forgot about the threads Trunks decides to wear. But it always seemed to me like he SHOULD be a lady's man. I guess that's just a mistake on my part.
Agent Smith does NOT like hanging out with a bunch of kids. That's why there's so much tension between them. A lot of times he just spaces out and focuses on what his other clones are doing. He needs help because the machines are producing Agents as well as other soldiers with new defense capabilities, meaning he can't absorb them. Sauron, of course, is behind the scenes running just about all the "villainous empires." It's too much story to drag on about here, but the reason Smith can go to Hogwarts and the like is that he finds a way to leave the Matrix in his original form, and not through a person who's jacked in (that always sounded kind of dirty to me). Hogwarts exists in it's own dimension.
Of course Vegeta would kick Smith's ass. I pointed that out when I said "Even then, Smith is sort of forced into the deal after having an a close (and very unnerving) encounter with Vegeta." Besides, one of the underlying themes in the fic towards the end is that all the "great" fighters are starting to get old. Saiyans may retain youth and strength beyond humans, but by the end of the story, Vegeta is pushing 80.
Oh, I understand the "Mary Sue" stuff now. Thanks, parron. My character is, at best, a Mary-Sue-wanna-be. I try to be good, to do the right thing, but my character is directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in the story. I even spawn a villain that's even more sadistic than Sauron.
I know Sauron is an odd choice for the "Biggest Bad Guy Boss" award, but I chose him because his personal appearances in Tolkien's work are minimal at best. That gives me something to work with as far as creativity. Think about it. We know Vegeta's a jerk. We know Smith's a psychotic megalomaniac bent on revenge. We know the Sith (as well as Voldemort) are shadowy deceivers also bent on revenge. But what do we REALLY know about Sauron? He has a thirst for domination and order, but that could apply to a multitude of bad guys. He's a good character to "make stuff up" with.
Actually, "technically", humans and Saiyans can't be two seperate species, since they can produce fertile offspring without any sort of artificial help.
Er, no. A Mary-Sue is a generic term for a self-insertion character: the author's alter-ego. Although they do tend to be beautiful/smart/ultra-powerful, and yes, they do usually save the day.parron wrote:Also, a Mary-Sue is a generic term for a super-perfect character (usually female, but they can be either). They tend to be beautiful, smart, multi-talented, and everyone depends on them to save the day. In DBZ terms, they tend to be Saiyan or female Nameks. They also tend to have half the cast in love with them. >__> Very annoying, as you might imagine.
Romana: "I don't think we should interfere."
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
Well, I believe that a self insert can be a 'Sue, but a 'Sue is not always an SI. The circles I hang out in tend to define them differently; it's true that a Mary-Sue is often who the author wishes they were, but it's just as often that a MS is just an original character gone wrong. Like rectangles and squares: A rectangle is a square, but a square is not a rectangle.
I don't want to argue against your "circles", but every seach I've just made for "Mary-Sue" has thrown up the "self-instertion/person the author wishes they were" definition. So while the people you know may definie a Mary-Sue as one thing, everyone else on the planet defines it as something else. And I'm going to go with everyone else on the planet, thank you.
And why not check out the Mary-Sue Generator while you're at it.
JohnBoy1, I suggest checking out the rest of that page, and possibly this one too.So you're scratching your head and wondering who the heck Mary Sue IS, hm? Well, "Mary Sue" is an unkind term used to describe a certain kind of character, a style of writing. She (or he) is created to serve one purpose: wish fulfilment. When a writer invents someone through whom he/she can have fantastic adventures and meet famous people (fictional or real), this character is a Mary Sue. (We don't have a name for the male version -- suggestions?)
Although storytellers have been rehashing Mary Sue since the dawn of time, she did not receive her current name until the early 1970s. The original was Lieutenant Mary Sue ("the youngest Lieutenant in the fleet -- only fifteen and a half years old") as immortalized in Paula Smith's "A Trekkie's Tale," which she wrote and published in her 1974 fanzine Menagerie #2. (According to Katherine Langley: "Paula is still active in fandom and, to be sure, suitably bemused that Mary Sue lives on.")
Mary Sue, as this archetype became known, was at first any brilliant, beautiful young Starfleet officer who joined the Enterprise crew to be the center of attention, set everything right, make off with the main male canon character's heart (or several of them!), and/or die dramatically in someone's arms. I'm sure you can make a similar analogy within your own fannish experiences. Mary Sues exist in every fanficdom:
the pretty new Immortal who stumbles into MacLeod's (or Methos') arms
the uberpowered kid who joins Generation X
the female bronzerider with her firelizard flock
the kitchen-drudge-cum-HeraldMage out on her first circuit
the notorious Marrissa Amber Flores Picard Gordon...
I'm sure you can think of more. And of course there are non-fanfic Mary Sues, characters who only exist in their creators' minds, on well-worn RPG character sheets or in secret notebooks. Thre are even actual canon Mary Sues, though that gets hard to judge because they are canon. Good examples include Jean M. Auel's Ayla, Michael Moorcock's Elric, Anne McCaffery's Menolly, and Anne Rice's, well, anyone...
And why not check out the Mary-Sue Generator while you're at it.
Romana: "I don't think we should interfere."
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
Doctor: "Interfere? Of course we should interfere! Always do what you're best at, that's what I say."
[i]-Doctor Who: Nightmare Of Eden[/i]
v.v;;; Jeez, don't get so huffy about it. A Mary-Sue does not equal a Self Insert, simply because an insert is "you" and a Mary-Sue is "who you wish to be." They over-lap a lot, of course, but they aren't the same thing. I've seen pleanty of Mary-Sues that are completely different from their authors in attitude (goth!Sue from Little Miss Perky Author) and gender (girls writing male Sues), but I've never seen a self insert that was either of those things... and if I DO write a male self insert (being female), well... that's just a different type of "strange."
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Zackarotto
- I Live Here
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