Broly Second Coming - SSJ2 or not?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:52 pm

Dayspring wrote:Yeah, but aside from when Vegeta first activates SSJ2, it's no longer present when he fights Kid Boo.

Yes it is.

Unless you mean in the anime, in which case...why?

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm not Dayspring, but I would think it's to make it more believable that Gohan was a SSJ2 against Broly. Vegeta not havin the SSJ2 aura, and Gohan as well, shows that it's possible he's a SSJ2 against Broly.

Of course, if we're adhering to the manga only, then it's obvious who's a SSJ2 and who's not.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:18 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Goku had no SSJ2 aura when he blew Yakon away.

And yet we know he blew him away by going SSJ2.

@Rocketman: Not as of when Kid Boo starts hitting him, he doesn't. The rest of the fight has no aura. Both these facts make me think that SSJ2 can exist without lightning, but as weaker forms of SSJ2.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:21 pm

I have a question: Do you think Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura?

The Goku thing was just a burst of power, not a transformation like he did against Majin Vegeta. Heck, we even see Vegeta with lightning in his aura as a SSJ when we know he certainly wasn't. The following page even shows Goku back in SSJ form when they are about to leave the Dark planet.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:59 pm

Dayspring wrote:@Rocketman: Not as of when Kid Boo starts hitting him, he doesn't. The rest of the fight has no aura. Both these facts make me think that SSJ2 can exist without lightning, but as weaker forms of SSJ2.

I think that it's more reasonable to assume that Vegeta just couldn't maintain Super Saiyan 2 anymore.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:12 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I have a question: Do you think Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura?

The Goku thing was just a burst of power, not a transformation like he did against Majin Vegeta. Heck, we even see Vegeta with lightning in his aura as a SSJ when we know he certainly wasn't. The following page even shows Goku back in SSJ form when they are about to leave the Dark planet.

I think Gohan was a weak SSJ2 against Dabura. It best explains how Dabura could be as powerful as Cell. As for the Goku thing, it's how Vegeta knew Goku could reach SSJ2 and finally decided to let himself become "Majinified." And I'm not sure I know when you're talking about SSJ Vegeta having lightning aura.

Even the hair argument doesn't work; Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan has hair that's inanely long, something we never see again in SSJ2s. I'm really starting to think SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just part of SSJ1, since they're both derived in the same fashion and can't get their own rules, right.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:14 pm

Dayspring wrote:I think Gohan was a weak SSJ2 against Dabura.

That doesn't explain why Gohan would transform into a "strong" Super Saiyan 2 (i.e. with lightning in his aura) at the tournament, though.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:34 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Dayspring wrote:I think Gohan was a weak SSJ2 against Dabura.
That doesn't explain why Gohan would transform into a "strong" Super Saiyan 2 (i.e. with lightning in his aura) at the tournament, though.

Its called Toriyama forgot to draw the lightning in the Dabra versus Son Gohan fight and Toei followed suite in the anime.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:37 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Its called Toriyama forgot to draw the lightning in the Dabra versus Son Gohan fight and Toei followed suite in the anime.

Yet Goku and Vegeta had intense lightning in their auras, sometimes a page after Super Saiyan Gohan (sans aura) was shown. That's a pretty bad memory.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:40 pm

Dayspring wrote:I think Gohan was a weak SSJ2 against Dabura. It best explains how Dabura could be as powerful as Cell. As for the Goku thing, it's how Vegeta knew Goku could reach SSJ2 and finally decided to let himself become "Majinified." And I'm not sure I know when you're talking about SSJ Vegeta having lightning aura.

Okay. Now I see your stance. As for the Vegeta thing: He does a semi power-up in his SSJ form with lightning in his aura, and then he talks about how Goku surpassed him and some other crap. This is at the tourney by the way.

The thing about Gohan, is that in the Dabura battle, he looked exactly how he looked when he transformed into SSJ to stop Spopo from thrashing Videl.

Goku's quote seemed to just be a reference to the last powerful villain they encountered. Anyone weaker then Super Perfect Cell wouldn't have a chance against SSJ2 Gohan, weakened or not.

kaioken12 · Post by **kaioken12** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:21 am

In any case Toei following Toriyama's mistake is not something you could use as an argument, as there are many examples for Toei not following the lightning shown in the manga at all...

But apart from that and apart from being not too sure I think there is a chance that Gohan went SSJ2 at one point (fighting Dabra or shooting his Kamehameha on Buu's egg...).
The only reason not to go SSJ2 in these situations would be that he noticed that he wasn't comfortable with SSJ2 when he showed it to Kibito and then decided to go SSJ1 against Dabra, as he was more comfortable with the form...

But then again, he seemed pretty comfortable in SSJ2 until the Kaioshin banned his movements... :/

Someday I heard the reason that Gohan was angry because of having to show everyone his SSJ and so his anger made him transform SSJ2 and after that against Dabra he was went "normally" SSJ1... but to be honest that reason sounds rather... illogical to me...

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:42 am

May I note that in Sparking METEOR Son Gohan's SSj ultimate move is the Brothers KameHame-Ha which might imply Gohan was a SSj when he fought Broli. His SSj2 ultimate move is the KameHame-Ha he used on Boo's shell.

Deep Thought · Post by **Deep Thought** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:34 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Its called Toriyama forgot to draw the lightning in the Dabra versus Son Gohan fight and Toei followed suite in the anime.
Yet Goku and Vegeta had intense lightning in their auras, sometimes a page after Super Saiyan Gohan (sans aura) was shown. That's a pretty bad memory.

That a point that I think people need to get into their heads. Do you really think that it went like this:

Akira Toriyama: Alright, done drawing the fight scene, let's move on to the Goku/Majin Vegeta fight.

Akira Toriyama: SHIT! I forgot to draw the lightning for Gohan. Damn it, I won't forget it next time!

Time Passes

Akira Toriyama: OH FUCK, I FORGOT TO DRAW THE LIGHTNING AGAIN!! WHAT IS WRONG WTIH ME TODAY!?

Editor: Maybe you could perhaps add in the lightning, now that you remember.

Akira Toriyama: Fuck that shit, re-adding shit is for prissy men.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:58 pm

Toriyama: Okay, I'll add in that BlackBeard was draining Gohan's power, so he couldn't go SSj2.
Editor: Sir, BlackBeard is Oda's character.
Toriyama: He is?

Yes, I know very well DragonBall had been over for two years before One Piece even started, much less BlackBeard appearing.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:24 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Toriyama: Okay, I'll add in that BlackBeard was draining Gohan's power, so he couldn't go SSj2.

While I know you're joking, this might be it. When Kibito heals Gohan after he has his energy drained, Kibito comments that "he's still not back at full power...his chi is immeasurable..."

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:25 pm

Rocketman wrote:While I know you're joking, this might be it. When Kibito heals Gohan after he has his energy drained, Kibito comments that "he's still not back at full power...his chi is immeasurable..."

Wow, you're right. Forgot about that.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:54 pm

Kibito went on to continue restoring his energy, though. He didn't just stop when he said that. Gohan also had a senzu after the Dabura battle and he still didn't use SSJ2.

I know that was a joke, Kaboom, but some really believe Kibito didn't restore all of his energy for some reason.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:12 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Toriyama: Okay, I'll add in that BlackBeard was draining Gohan's power, so he couldn't go SSj2.
Editor: Sir, BlackBeard is Oda's character.
Toriyama: He is?

Yes, I know very well DragonBall had been over for two years before One Piece even started, much less BlackBeard appearing.

Toriyama: "Oh man, did I just see the future? I gotta put this stuff down."

*Oda one night breaks into Toriyama's house to steal his stuff for his shrine.*

Oda: "Ooh, what's this?"

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:54 pm

I don't think that Gohan was a SSJ2.