Goku vs Buu, Energy Donations

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:45 pm

Here's one from the Boo section that irked me

"The strength and speed of this Buu are nearly incomprehensible; Goku and Vegeta are no match"

During their fight, Goku and Kid Boo were evenly matched. However, Goku then states he could actually DEFEAT KID BOO if he simply had enough power.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:12 am

IncredibleGuy wrote:During their fight, Goku and Kid Boo were evenly matched. However, Goku then states he could actually DEFEAT KID BOO if he simply had enough power.

A common misconception; while Goku claims that he might be able to defeat Boo, if he had come at him from the beginning at full strength, I still think he was being much too optomistic. Goku and Kid Boo were not evenly matched at all; while their fight looked like Goku was giving as good as he recieved, at the end Goku was hurt and completly drained of energy. Boo on the other hand didn't have a scratch, and could've fought all day. Boo was probably toying with Goku more than anything.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:56 am

I just rewatched the entire subtitled episode where Goku asks to buy time and never once does he say "might".

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:35 am

Heh, maybe not. You're right that Goku said it; but it still doesn't make it true. Vegeta says that he can obliterate every enemy there is, and still gets his ass handed to him on a regular bases.

The fact remains, when Goku completly maxes himself out, Boo was still just getting started.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:24 pm

I honestly don't think Boo's resilience in any way, shape, or form helps prove whether or not Goku would be able to summon enough energy to destroy him. Boo was still cocky, and energetic when he got that Genki Dama thrown at him, and he still got destroyed.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:53 pm

I have to disagree; Kid Boo's resilliance to Goku is pretty much the entire matter, you can't say Super Boo was doing that well against Vegetto, and the only reason why the Super Genki Dama killed Boo, was because it was a lot stronger than Goku.

And in any case, you can't still say that Kid Boo and Goku fought "evenly", or else they both would've been exhausted.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:00 pm

Well, they did match each other blow for blow. And who's to say Goku couldn't summon as much energy as the Genki Dama? Until Kid Boo came along that attack was utterly worthless.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:19 pm

IncredibleGuy wrote:And who's to say Goku couldn't summon as much energy as the Genki Dama?

Uhh... the fact that he dropped out of SSJ3 maybe?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:19 pm

Up until that point, the Genki Dama was only "worthless" against the major villians, because it only drew a small amount of Ki from all living things (basically, people contributed such a small amount unconsiously, they didn't even know it). But the Super Genki Dama had taken the maximum amount of energy from everyone, because they gave it up willingly.

Now as for why I think Goku couldn't have summoned enough power to kill Kid Boo; if you look at the amount of Ki contributed by Gohan to the Genki Dama, it was big but nowhere enough to beat Boo as it was. If that was all the power Gohan could give, there's no way Goku could've had much, much more than that. Besides, if Goku could've destroyed him right at the start, why wouldn't he?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:32 pm

This has come up before, and I don't want to go off topic, but I do feel the need to point out that the "worthless" Genki Dama worked pretty-well-thankyou-very-much against Vegeta.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:45 pm

"If that was all the power Gohan could give, there's no way Goku could've had much, much more than that."

Well, then maybe that wasn't all the power Gohan could give. Eh? He didn't seem very effected by the loss, unlike most of the Earth's population which had to take a big nap afterwards.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:01 am

IncredibleGuy wrote:"If that was all the power Gohan could give, there's no way Goku could've had much, much more than that."

Well, then maybe that wasn't all the power Gohan could give. Eh? He didn't seem very effected by the loss, unlike most of the Earth's population which had to take a big nap afterwards.

Please learn to quote correctly. Thank you.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:03 am

IncredibleGuy wrote:Well, then maybe that wasn't all the power Gohan could give. Eh? He didn't seem very effected by the loss, unlike most of the Earth's population which had to take a big nap afterwards.

We are going way off topic here, so I'm going to make this the last time.

Gohan would have every reason to donate all of his Ki to the Genki Dama since he was no longer in battle, and he knew what was at stake. He was not as "winded" as the other Earthlings, because he's been a martial artist all his life, while the majority of Earths population couldn't fight off the weakest alien invader.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:01 am

Machina, do you remember when Goku asked Vegeta about the Dragonballs? He asked Vegeta if he was planning to bring Gohan, and the boys there to which Vegeta responded 'no'. He told Goku he wanted the Earth to 'fend for itself. Now, what exactly would be the point of taking all of Gohan's energy, as well as Goten and Trunks' too, into the Genki Dama when Vegeta specifically stated he didn't want to rely on them to begin with?

--
Bah... actually, I guess it all depends on who was deciding how much energy Gohan would give. Is there any evidence concerning who's choice it is on how much energy something gives? Because all I can think of to prove that it was Goku's decision on how much energy was taken was when one Earthling raised up his hands out of curiosity only to fall to the ground acting like the wind was knocked out of him.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:07 am

IncredibleGuy wrote:Because all I can think of to prove that it was Goku's decision on how much energy was taken was when one Earthling raised up his hands out of curiosity only to fall to the ground acting like the wind was knocked out of him.

I don't know how you'd get that impression. It always seemed to me that people gave as much energy as they could before they simply collapsed from exhaustion. Goku's not telepathically keeping their arms up in the air; it's all their personal choice. He didn't raise their arms to begin with, and I doubt he'd be so rude as to forcefully KEEP them raised.

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:31 am

I think that Goku forcefully took all the energy in a short time, so Earthlings didn't have a choice in the matter, the whole process was just too fast to stop. After all, when the first Earthling raised his arms, the whole scene with "energy absorption" lasted for only one panel, and gave me the impression of being very sudden, so...

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:39 am

Fuujin wrote:I think that Goku forcefully took all the energy in a short time, so Earthlings didn't have a choice in the matter, the whole process was just too fast to stop. After all, when the first Earthling raised his arms, the whole scene with "energy absorption" lasted for only one panel, and gave me the impression of being very sudden, so...

If he couldn't forcefully make them put their arms up in the first place, I just don't see him forcefully KEEPING their arms up in the air.

Oh, I'm splitting this thread

. Seems to need its own place, now.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:20 am

Kid Buu was in perfect condition when Goku fired off the Super Spirit Bomb, Goku was no where near perfect. I think Buu was just having fun beating him up and that he was a good bit stronger than Goku's full power.

IncredibleGuy wrote:During their fight, Goku and Kid Boo were evenly matched. However, Goku then states he could actually DEFEAT KID BOO if he simply had enough power.

Notice how that's phrased. "If he simply had enough power". That means, to me, that he DOESN'T have that much power, that he ISN'T that strong.

IncredibleGuy · Post by **IncredibleGuy** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:41 am

Watch the episode again, Goku says he COULD summon up enough power, and that he only needed time. He was pretty confident about it too, until he realized how strenuous SS3 was on his physical body.

"He didn't raise their arms to begin with, and I doubt he'd be so rude as to forcefully KEEP them raised." - VegettoEX

I never thought he kept their hands raised either, I just thought he took as much energy from them as he could before they put their hands back down.

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:04 pm

I agree on that, actually. An Earthling raises his hands out of curiosity, with no intent on even giving ''energy'' to anybody, yet suddenly had it (Almost) all drained from him. And he didn't exactly seem to even know what was going on. There's no way he would have given it volunteerely. Someone, or something connected to the Genki Dama apparently forces the energy out of their bodies when they raise their hands.

And, if Goku wasn't the one taking the energy, what was? The Genki Dama technique itself? ''Sure'', you say. But how in hell would the Genki Dama ''know'' how much energy to take? Later on it's even mentioned it they were to draw more power, the Earthlings would die. Therefore, they must have some sort of control over how much energy to take. That's the sort of thinking a ''technique'' can't do, and therefore it must be Goku taking the energy.

So why the hell do they have to raise their hands to have it taken? Oh never mind. I know full well it's senseless to search for reason behind stuff like this, so I'll just give up now.

Kanzenshuu

Goku vs Buu, Energy Donations

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