Opinion of Sabat?

[Tsukento]

The script isn't Sabat's fault. =/

Not saying it is. I'm saying that Mr. Sabata's acting as Vegeta for this scene in the redub is not much of a change from 1999. It's the same dialogue with a recent Vegeta tone. The acting is about the same (not great), minus the poor Brian Drummond imitation.

[tinlunlau]

I haven't seen too much of his voice acting roles. But I have met Chris Sabat in person a few years ago at a convention in Toronto. I find him to be a somewhat disturbed man who kept switching voices in front of me. I think he kept talking to me in a Beavis and Butthead voice. I thought he was pretty spot-on as Beavis.

[NeptuneKai]

I haven't seen too much of his voice acting roles. But I have met Chris Sabat in person a few years ago at a convention in Toronto. I find him to be a somewhat disturbed man who kept switching voices in front of me. I think he kept talking to me in a Beavis and Butthead voice. I thought he was pretty spot-on as Beavis.

That's voice actors in general, they are ALWAYS on.
I think Sabat as a person is a very nice guy, just not a good voice actor for the most part.

[Gozar]

The terrible acting with Sabat's Vegeta (and other characters) has nothing to do, I think, with Sabat's emotional range itself. As everybody mentioned, some of his other dubs are much better than his dubs in Dragon Ball. Why, then? Well, it's obvious: the voice.

There's simply no way ANYONE would be able to emote ANYTHING with the kind of voice they wanted for Vegeta. It's impossible. It's an exaggerated, cartoonish, stereotypical, "unhuman" voice. How is he supposed to express emotions when he's having a hard time just MAKING the voice?

I whole heartily disagree. You say this and yet I watch the man emote happiness, anger, sadness, pain, craziness, and all other emotions time after time. I really don't think you've watched much of Sabat as Vegeta at all.

Easy: because that's how they are supposed to sound. If they weren't supposed to sound like normal persons, they wouldn't have been voiced like normal persons in the original version. The fact that Dragon Ball has a cartoonish look has nothing to do with it.

No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.

Not saying it is. I'm saying that Mr. Sabata's acting as Vegeta for this scene in the redub is not much of a change from 1999. It's the same dialogue with a recent Vegeta tone. The acting is about the same (not great), minus the poor Brian Drummond imitation.

Tell me. What exactly do you want from the man? I heard emotion in his voice, I heard pain and sadness. He raised his voice when necessary, kept it lower when necessary. The 1999 Dub sounded insanely fake, seriously, I could do better. The 2007 one sounded real to me.

[Kendamu]

No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

[Innagadadavida]

No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

If a director is also an actor, it won't make much of a difference. If an different actor were to play the part that the director plays, then the director would have the actor do the same thing he would have done. The director has the vision and the actors play it out.

[Kendamu]

No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

If a director is also an actor, it won't make much of a difference. If an different actor were to play the part that the director plays, then the director would have the actor do the same thing he would have done. The director has the vision and the actors play it out.

What I'm getting at comes from the (very little) stage-acting experience I have as well as all the stuff I read, see, and hear about when it comes to really great movies, shows, and plays having a lot to do with the mixture of ideas and creative chemistry between the actors and the director.

Chris Sabat, at one point, was like half of the cast as well as the director. As far as I know, he's still the director and plays several major roles. When the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't get that same chemistry. Its like reading H-Manga compared to going out on an actual date.

[JulieYBM]

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

If a director is also an actor, it won't make much of a difference. If an different actor were to play the part that the director plays, then the director would have the actor do the same thing he would have done. The director has the vision and the actors play it out.

What I'm getting at comes from the (very little) stage-acting experience I have as well as all the stuff I read, see, and hear about when it comes to really great movies, shows, and plays having a lot to do with the mixture of ideas and creative chemistry between the actors and the director.

Chris Sabat, at one point, was like half of the cast as well as the director. As far as I know, he's still the director and plays several major roles. When the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't get that same chemistry. Its like reading H-Manga compared to going out on an actual date.

Well, he did direct some of the series but nowadays he only directs the games I believe. Seasons One and Two I believe were directed by a combination of other FUNi voice actors.

[NeptuneKai]

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

If a director is also an actor, it won't make much of a difference. If an different actor were to play the part that the director plays, then the director would have the actor do the same thing he would have done. The director has the vision and the actors play it out.

What I'm getting at comes from the (very little) stage-acting experience I have as well as all the stuff I read, see, and hear about when it comes to really great movies, shows, and plays having a lot to do with the mixture of ideas and creative chemistry between the actors and the director.

Chris Sabat, at one point, was like half of the cast as well as the director. As far as I know, he's still the director and plays several major roles. When the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't get that same chemistry. Its like reading H-Manga compared to going out on an actual date.

I-It's N-Not the same?

[Saago]

No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.

LIKING a character is a very subjective thing. But the Japanese Vegeta defines how Vegeta should be like (it's not called the original version because of nothing). The Japanese version defines how Vegeta acts, how he sounds, the phrases he says, the emotions he shows... because the Japanese version is how the character was conceived. Saiying that the Japanese version of a Dragon Ball character doesn't fit the character (or doesn't fit as well as the English version) makes no sense. What doesn't fit and where? The Japanese version of the characters ARE the characters. They don't have to fit anywhere; they are the ones who define from scratch. They are not pieces of a puzzle which are trying to portray a magically preconcieved image as faithfully as possible; they are pieces which create an image of their own, out of nothing. I mean, saying the contrary is like saying "I met a guy yesterday at school, but his voice, the way he spoke and the emotions he showed... he's not supposed to sound like that, it doesn't fit him". If someone doesn't like the Japanese Vegeta, then he doesn't like Vegeta. Plain and simple (I'm not saying you don't like him).

When someone says "Oh, I think the Japanese version of Piccolo doesn't fit the character that well!", what he should actually say is that "The Japanese version of Piccolo is not how I want the character to be". Well, bad luck. There are plenty of other series, you're obviously going to find one whose characters you actually, genuinely like (again, I'm not referring to you). But asking for a dubbing company to change the way characters sound, act and emote so it fits the way you want them to be (instead of the way the original creators wanted them to be; that is, the way they really are) is ridiculous.

By the way, your example with Nozawa is like saying that if Toriyama had had a few beers before creating him, Vegeta could have been a comical character who likes Gokuh from the beginning, and therefore there's nothing wrong with portraying him as a comical character who likes Gokuh from the beginning in the English translation because, hey, defining the personality of a character is the combination of director/creator and actor. So if Mr. Sabat thinks that's the way the character should be, go ahead!

[Captain Awesome]

The terrible acting with Sabat's Vegeta (and other characters) has nothing to do, I think, with Sabat's emotional range itself. As everybody mentioned, some of his other dubs are much better than his dubs in Dragon Ball. Why, then? Well, it's obvious: the voice.

There's simply no way ANYONE would be able to emote ANYTHING with the kind of voice they wanted for Vegeta. It's impossible. It's an exaggerated, cartoonish, stereotypical, "unhuman" voice. How is he supposed to express emotions when he's having a hard time just MAKING the voice?

I whole heartily disagree. You say this and yet I watch the man emote happiness, anger, sadness, pain, craziness, and all other emotions time after time. I really don't think you've watched much of Sabat as Vegeta at all.

Now I'm calling bullshit.

We've all watched the dub, telling people that the reason they don't like it is simply because they haven't watched enough is complete horse shit and you know it.

As for your earlier point about how Chris Sabat being unable to stay in-character being somehow a good thing?, it's because he can't emote while doing that particular character voice, watch some professional actors in animation (Billy West, Maurice Lamarshe etc) and you'll see plenty of examples where they are able to stay in character during emotional moments.

We do sound different when we cry, but we still sound like ourselves, what Chris Sabat did in the re-dub wasn't an artistic choice, it was because of his limited emotional range while playing Vegeta.

[Kendamu]

Thing is, I haven't watched much of the re-dub. Usually, if you can't do it right the first time, I generally don't pay attention.

[Tsukento]

As I mentioned, Sabat misses one critical thing in the scene I brought up: Vegeta is on the brink of death and is struggling to keep himself alive to finish his final words to Goku. Chris Sabat's Vegeta does not sound like he's pushing his body to stay alive while showing a huge moment of weakness in himself.

As Ryo Horikawa speaks as Vegeta in the scene, you can hear his voice shake at points, as well as when he tries to speak and breath. There is a struggle in his voice, like he's trying to get everything out at once before his body finally gives in while trying to maintain what dignity he sees himself having left. Remember, as Vegeta's dying, he's actually BEGGING the very person he always spoke down on to humiliate Freeza and to actually show some pride in his heritage instead of showing Freeza any mercy as he did with him before.

[jjgp1112]

The terrible acting with Sabat's Vegeta (and other characters) has nothing to do, I think, with Sabat's emotional range itself. As everybody mentioned, some of his other dubs are much better than his dubs in Dragon Ball. Why, then? Well, it's obvious: the voice.

There's simply no way ANYONE would be able to emote ANYTHING with the kind of voice they wanted for Vegeta. It's impossible. It's an exaggerated, cartoonish, stereotypical, "unhuman" voice. How is he supposed to express emotions when he's having a hard time just MAKING the voice?

I whole heartily disagree. You say this and yet I watch the man emote happiness, anger, sadness, pain, craziness, and all other emotions time after time. I really don't think you've watched much of Sabat as Vegeta at all.

Now I'm calling bullshit.

We've all watched the dub, telling people that the reason they don't like it is simply because they haven't watched enough is complete horse shit and you know it.

As for your earlier point about how Chris Sabat being unable to stay in-character being somehow a good thing?, it's because he can't emote while doing that particular character voice, watch some professional actors in animation (Billy West, Maurice Lamarshe etc) and you'll see plenty of examples where they are able to stay in character during emotional moments.

We do sound different when we cry, but we still sound like ourselves, what Chris Sabat did in the re-dub wasn't an artistic choice, it was because of his limited emotional range while playing Vegeta.

From a lot of statements I read on here, it sounds like people are only backing their opinions up with stuff from the awful Season 3 dub. IMO, if you don't think that the redub of Vegeta's death was leagues better than the original dub, then you're lying. He actually sounded choked up.

[Tsukento]

From a lot of statements I read on here, it sounds like people are only backing their opinions up with stuff from the awful Season 3 dub.

Mine is coming from both the original AND redub of Season Three.

[Captain Awesome]

From a lot of statements I read on here, it sounds like people are only backing their opinions up with stuff from the awful Season 3 dub.

Mine is coming from both the original AND redub of Season Three.

Mine too.

Whats funny is how you can refer to the season 3 dub as "awful" even though most of it is still intact in the re-dub.

[Super Sonic]

So cheap guys like me aren't missing anything then I take it?

[Gozar]

That sounds very pretty and all, but when the actor and the director are the same guy, you don't quite get the same effect.

Unless Sabat casted Brian Drummond it's not Sabat's fault. Drummond was the beginning of the raspy Vegeta. Sabat came in and tried his best to imitate that. Over time he created his own take on Vegeta but in the end Sabat did not create a raspy Vegeta.

LIKING a character is a very subjective thing. But the Japanese Vegeta defines how Vegeta should be like (it's not called the original version because of nothing). The Japanese version defines how Vegeta acts, how he sounds, the phrases he says, the emotions he shows... because the Japanese version is how the character was conceived. Saiying that the Japanese version of a Dragon Ball character doesn't fit the character (or doesn't fit as well as the English version) makes no sense. What doesn't fit and where? The Japanese version of the characters ARE the characters. They don't have to fit anywhere; they are the ones who define from scratch. They are not pieces of a puzzle which are trying to portray a magically preconcieved image as faithfully as possible; they are pieces which create an image of their own, out of nothing. I mean, saying the contrary is like saying "I met a guy yesterday at school, but his voice, the way he spoke and the emotions he showed... he's not supposed to sound like that, it doesn't fit him". If someone doesn't like the Japanese Vegeta, then he doesn't like Vegeta. Plain and simple (I'm not saying you don't like him).

*Buzz*...Wrong-o buddy. The characters were created by Akira Toriyama. The only true-ness to the character is what Toriyama writes down. He did not choose Horikawa as Vegeta. A director did. Just because this director came from Japan and worked on the series doesn't mean he has a more legit opinion on how a character should sound. How a character should sound is subjective. Original does not mean true or correct. It just means he was the first.

By the way, your example with Nozawa is like saying that if Toriyama had had a few beers before creating him, Vegeta could have been a comical character who likes Gokuh from the beginning, and therefore there's nothing wrong with portraying him as a comical character who likes Gokuh from the beginning in the English translation because, hey, defining the personality of a character is the combination of director/creator and actor. So if Mr. Sabat thinks that's the way the character should be, go ahead!

That's nothing like what I said and you know it.

Now I'm calling bullshit.

We've all watched the dub, telling people that the reason they don't like it is simply because they haven't watched enough is complete horse shit and you know it.

From a lot of statements I read on here, it sounds like people are only backing their opinions up with stuff from the awful Season 3 dub.

This is my problem with the bulk of the Dub Bashing on this Forum. Everyone's examples come from the Freeza stuff. We all know that was shit. The writing, the acting, hell I even hated the placement of Faulconer's Music.

We do sound different when we cry, but we still sound like ourselves, what Chris Sabat did in the re-dub wasn't an artistic choice, it was because of his limited emotional range while playing Vegeta.

I dare you to record yourself and then record yourself crying legit sounding. The common person's voice doesn;t sound the same. Sabat's voice did not change do a completely different voice. Just a less raspy one for a few words.

As I mentioned, Sabat misses one critical thing in the scene I brought up: Vegeta is on the brink of death and is struggling to keep himself alive to finish his final words to Goku. Chris Sabat's Vegeta does not sound like he's pushing his body to stay alive while showing a huge moment of weakness in himself.

As Ryo Horikawa speaks as Vegeta in the scene, you can hear his voice shake at points, as well as when he tries to speak and breath. There is a struggle in his voice, like he's trying to get everything out at once before his body finally gives in while trying to maintain what dignity he sees himself having left. Remember, as Vegeta's dying, he's actually BEGGING the very person he always spoke down on to humiliate Freeza and to actually show some pride in his heritage instead of showing Freeza any mercy as he did with him before.

You're right. Horikawa emotes this scene better than Sabat. But just because Horikawa does it better does not automatically mean Sabat's bad. Just because something isn't as good as something else doesn't mean it's bad.

[Zenkai Power]

I personally always thought Vegeta sounded great in the dub. So I don't see what the big deal is. I think the character shines through regardless.

[Captain Awesome]

Now I'm calling bullshit.

We've all watched the dub, telling people that the reason they don't like it is simply because they haven't watched enough is complete horse shit and you know it.

From a lot of statements I read on here, it sounds like people are only backing their opinions up with stuff from the awful Season 3 dub.

This is my problem with the bulk of the Dub Bashing on this Forum. Everyone's examples come from the Freeza stuff. We all know that was shit. The writing, the acting, hell I even hated the placement of Faulconer's Music.

I spot checked the dub in the Cell and Boo arcs last time I went through the series, the moronic heroic speeches, nonsensical re-writes, sub-par acting and terrible music are all still there, sure the bar was raised a little, but the problems still remain.

Dismissing people's opinions because you think they haven't seen enough of the dub is rubbish, it's like Stephanie Meyer telling people they need to read Twilight again because they thought it was terrible.