Minority-to-Majority Opinion of Faulconer

xzero · Post by **xzero** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:31 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I'm wondering if this falls in line with other examples of used-to-seem-like-minorities, but now-seems-to-be-a-majority (for an additional example, Faulconer music; the online vocal majority during its actual heyday was overwhelmingly negative [and possibly contributed to his drop for DBGT], but I have a hypothesis that the opposite was true in reality and said "true" majority simply didn't have the age or internet access to reflect these opinions, which are only just now getting expressed).

This theory really intrigued me when I read it, largely because I'm confident that Mike is right. For my part, I love Faulconer's music, and actually would have enjoyed GT more had it used his music. I was recently on YouTube, and the comments to a video using Faulconer's music were overwhelmingly positive. I remember sites back in the late 90s criticizing Faulconer's music (e.g. it sounded like he let his cat run over a midi keyboard), and while I always disagreed, I was about 14 at the time and didn't post things online.

Is there anyone else here who really liked Faulconer's music without openly supporting it online?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:35 pm

While I admit I've never been one to get all butthurt over music, I do prefer the Faulconer music and I know I was never on any DBZ message boards or online communities before this one (not counting the Budokai 3 board over on Gamefaqs).

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:41 pm

I think faulconer's music is good. It's not the Original but for what it's intended for it does good. I also feel that if they used his music in GT I would have enjoyed GT a lot more. Sometimes his music just really fits scenes (Vegeta turning Super Saiyan, Final Flash, and Others). I really don't have a problem with his work.

Zuhalter2000 · Post by **Zuhalter2000** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:44 pm

I enjoyed Faulconer's music personally. It is really nostalgic for me... good old Toonami days

,but dear lord did I hate GT's music!

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:47 pm

I'm a fan. I have the soundtrack. Perfect Cell Theme ftw.

I like Mark's score too though. In the movies, that is. I haven't watched a single episode of GT so I cant speak for that.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:50 pm

(If you're going to post in this thread, please stay on-topic; there's no need to simply say which musical score you like.)

Again, it's only a theory, and I have absolutely nothing to back it up other than observations of FUNimation's treatment of the property and online activity throughout...

But I have a feeling it might be kinda spot-on.

Additionally, is there any evidence to prove (rather than highly suggest) that it was the overwhelmingly-negative response to Faulconer's score that got him "replaced" for the DBGT TV series? I remember reading stuff he said in interviews and on his website saying that he'd do anything and everything for the series if FUNimation wanted him to, and fans would have to request it from the company.

I can see it totally being a game of cat-and-mouse:

- (Let's ignore first two seasons and jump to 1999)
- FUNimation goes with Faulconer for music
- Online reaction is overwhelmingly negative
- FUNimation announces new score for DBGT (Menza?)
- Online reaction is overwhelmingly negative
- At the same time, those who were little kids and only knew Faulconer begin to grow of age and start posting that they LIKED that music
- FUNimation tries to appease fans and acknowledges original Japanese score, includes it on season sets
- Dub fans are no longer little kids, all posting online, have absolutely zero interest in the Japanese score, demand Faulconer back

Amusingly, the DBGT dub score is near-universally despised

. I do remember perfectly well the reaction to FUNimation putting up that "Step Into The Grand Tour" mp3 on their website to hype up the release... aaaannd... its near-immediate removal afterwards...

One thing we can all agree on, no matter which musical score you actually like/prefer/dislike/whatever... is that we have FUNimation and FUNimation alone to "blame" for the split in fandom. On one hand you could say they provided "choices" (which is a "good thing"), and on the other hand, you could say that by offering up these choices you inherently split the fanbase immediately...

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:58 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Additionally, is there any evidence to prove (rather than highly suggest) that it was the overwhelmingly-negative response to Faulconer's score that got him "replaced" for the DBGT TV series? I remember reading stuff he said in interviews and on his website saying that he'd do anything and everything for the series if FUNimation wanted him to, and fans would have to request it from the company.

I can see it totally being a game of cat-and-mouse:

- (Let's ignore first two seasons and jump to 1999)
- FUNimation goes with Faulconer for music
- Online reaction is overwhelmingly negative
- FUNimation announces new score for DBGT (Menza?)
- Online reaction is overwhelmingly negative
- At the same time, those who were little kids and only knew Faulconer begin to grow of age and start posting that they LIKED that music
- FUNimation tries to appease fans and acknowledges original Japanese score, includes it on season sets
- Dub fans are no longer little kids, all posting online, have absolutely zero interest in the Japanese score, demand Faulconer back

The hardest people to please are fans. This is an interesting theory. I do remember Faulconer's score the best from when I was a kid, and I prefer watching the season sets with his music. To me, his music just fits the series perfectly, though my friend who just got into DBZ likes to watch the orange bricks with the Japanese music because he feels like it fits the series better.

At least FUNimation actively listens to the fanbase. You have to give them credit for that. Other companies don't give a damn about what the fans want. *Cough*cough*NINTENDO*cough*

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:06 pm

It seems like the only fans that didn't like Faulconer were the ones who wanted the original score in the first place. That group could have been the majority of fans online that voiced their dislike for him.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:14 pm

Honestly now, given that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of countries that have a non-negligible amount of Faulconer fans (or people who actually give a shit about him, for that manner), it kind of makes them a definite minority by default.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:18 pm

Adamant wrote:Honestly now, given that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of countries that have a non-negligible amount of Faulconer fans, it kind of makes them a definite minority by default.

Very good point to bring up.

There *have* been instances of the FUNimation production making its way in a forced-fashion to other territories, though. Was it Budokai 2 in all of Europe that only had the FUNimation voices (after the first game having the JP cast)? Also, things like the American-made GBA games would have FUNimation-only terminology and music based on the Faulconer score.

I guess that's a little tangential to the topic at hand, though, since this would more-or-less only relate to North American (maybe Australian...?) DB fans.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:26 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Was it Budokai 2 in all of Europe that only had the FUNimation voices (after the first game having the JP cast)?

Budokai 2 (and I believe the original version of 3) for the PS2, yes. The GC version of Budokai 2 thankfully had the original cast.

It had to do with Sony making a demand at some point between the release of Budokai and Budokai 2 that all games released in English-speaking territories (that is, non-French/German/Spanish-speaking ones) have English voice acting, and Nintendo not really caring.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:45 pm

It completely makes sense to me. This is probably part of the reason why I just sit in a corner with my manga and shoo everyone else away. I don't feel like having my fun ruined by DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN I AM PICCOLO DUN DUN DUN and I don't feel like ruining their fun by having people hear me humming Cha-La Head Cha-La while reading about Goku kicking the shit out of Nappa.

Stupid fanbase splits. If it were done right the first time, we could get along like Cowboy Bebop fans do.

Saago · Post by **Saago** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:56 pm

But the PAL version of Budokai 3 had Japanese voices again, since non-English speaking countries despised the English voices and music. So definitely not many fans of Falcouner in Europe.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:02 pm

This brings the question back, if Falcouner hadn't done the score for DBZ(let's say the Japanese score for DBZ was used) and had done the score for GT, would the dub fans like him? It seems to be more of a "I liked his music because it was the first I heard" kind of thing when discussing Falcouner. Like VegettoEX said earlier, Funimation alone is to blame for this fanbase split concerning the music.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:14 pm

Faulconer had much more variety than Menza, even giving Piccolo and Vegeta their own dub-only themes which were actually pretty decent.

Menza's music sounds like something you'd listen to alone in a dark room.

I do think that the majority of the fanbase really didn't care about the music and just wanted new episodes after watching Seasons 1, 2, and movies 1-3 for a year.

But then again, if FUNimation decided to change the music for GT, then the fanbase must have been pretty overwhelming...

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:15 pm

I thought Faulconer's music worked in Gozar's AR DBZ. In the actual series I just find it too damn intrusive. And no, I watched 80% of Dragon Ball Z on Toonami back in the day and I didn't think his music was anything special like how some people are saying it is.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Raki wrote:This brings the question back, if Falcouner hadn't done the score for DBZ(let's say the Japanese score for DBZ was used) and had done the score for GT, would the dub fans like him? It seems to be more of a "I liked his music because it was the first I heard" kind of thing when discussing Falcouner. Like VegettoEX said earlier, Funimation alone is to blame for this fanbase split concerning the music.

To really sum it up:

Would certain "dub fans" even be "complaining" about the original Japanese score had they never been given a "choice" in the first place?

For a partial answer, I suppose you could look at the rest of the world, where nearly everyone else just went ahead and used what was given to them as "the show", rather than creating a new persona for it...

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:38 pm

Honestly I don't think so. It would just be the music for Dragonball Z and they would keep it rolling.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:40 pm

Raki wrote:This brings the question back, if Falcouner hadn't done the score for DBZ(let's say the Japanese score for DBZ was used) and had done the score for GT, would the dub fans like him? It seems to be more of a "I liked his music because it was the first I heard" kind of thing when discussing Falcouner. Like VegettoEX said earlier, Funimation alone is to blame for this fanbase split concerning the music.

Well yes, but if the colonies had lost we'd all be singing "God Save the Queen" too.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:42 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Raki wrote:This brings the question back, if Falcouner hadn't done the score for DBZ(let's say the Japanese score for DBZ was used) and had done the score for GT, would the dub fans like him? It seems to be more of a "I liked his music because it was the first I heard" kind of thing when discussing Falcouner. Like VegettoEX said earlier, Funimation alone is to blame for this fanbase split concerning the music.
Well yes, but if the colonies had lost we'd all be singing "God Save the Queen" too.

That's an awesome national anthem and I wouldn't mind singing that everyday.