Wrong character models used in-show

[Rocketman]

In the "We Gotta Power" intro, Gohan has his book bag in one shot then it's gone in the next! Nitpickery?!

In that too, Goten switches from that lavender/blue...thing to the orange gi from one shot to the next.

But, it is an intro.

[SonEric84]

I don't know SonEric personally, but I would say just by what I've seen here that he's a pretty laid back guy, so I think that the definsiveness was unnecissary.

Plus isn't this just a thread about some wrong models, I don't notice any bashing of Toei.

Well thanks, I didn't take any offense to it or anything, I just didn't want him to take it the wrong way.

I think laserkid just got himself carried away with the response . He's an equally laid-back guy.

I agree, I've never seen him say anything remotely rude and he probably didn't mean it like that. It's hard to judge through the internet sometimes. Anyway, laserkid is cool in my book.

[laserkid]

Ohh I earned a bold title for my name cool

In all seriousness, I apparently took your comment more seriously then it was meant, my apologies.

And yes, these are cool.

[Haseowolf]

I've noticed a lot of different instances of this. Unless it was done purposely, you would think the animators would pay a little more attention.

When you go through thousands upon thousands of animation cells every day, you're liable to miss things like that. Especially if you got used to drawing a character a certain way. Think about it this way. 30 frames per second, sixty seconds per minuet. thats 180 cells just for one minuet.

Assuming 8 minuets for commercials, leaving us with 22 minuets per episode leaves us at 3960 frames per episode. Multiply that by 296 episodes for JUST DBZ and it's an astounding 1,172,160 frames. That's OVER A MILLION individual cells JUST for DBZ.

So don't take such an attitude with these people if a few cells are off. They go through so many, that they have to begin to all look the same, and missing something from their end is only natural. Super Dimensional Fortress Macross (Also the first part of Robotech) had MANY similar issues with people not wearing the right rank or faction patch.

That's a quite over-exaggerated. If there were that many frames of animation actually drawn, the release for each episode would be much further apart, as well as the episodes moving very fluidly. You must see that the same cell of animation is on screen for very long durations with only lip movements and eye movements changing.

Anime (especially the older stuff, a la Dragonball) is usually done in a sort of limited animation. They don't draw every frame you see, they draw on and stay on that or add other layers for talking and blinking and otherwise reuse old animations instead of drawing the scene all over again.

Yes, things are going to be overlooked, but it is funny as well as somewhat sad in the face of quality control for the series.

[GotenZ1]

I've noticed a lot of different instances of this. Unless it was done purposely, you would think the animators would pay a little more attention.

When you go through thousands upon thousands of animation cells every day, you're liable to miss things like that. Especially if you got used to drawing a character a certain way. Think about it this way. 30 frames per second, sixty seconds per minuet. thats 180 cells just for one minuet.

Assuming 8 minuets for commercials, leaving us with 22 minuets per episode leaves us at 3960 frames per episode. Multiply that by 296 episodes for JUST DBZ and it's an astounding 1,172,160 frames. That's OVER A MILLION individual cells JUST for DBZ.

So don't take such an attitude with these people if a few cells are off. They go through so many, that they have to begin to all look the same, and missing something from their end is only natural. Super Dimensional Fortress Macross (Also the first part of Robotech) had MANY similar issues with people not wearing the right rank or faction patch.

That's a quite over-exaggerated. If there were that many frames of animation actually drawn, the release for each episode would be much further apart, as well as the episodes moving very fluidly. You must see that the same cell of animation is on screen for very long durations with only lip movements and eye movements changing.

Anime (especially the older stuff, a la Dragonball) is usually done in a sort of limited animation. They don't draw every frame you see, they draw on and stay on that or add other layers for talking and blinking and otherwise reuse old animations instead of drawing the scene all over again.

Yes, things are going to be overlooked, but it is funny as well as somewhat sad in the face of quality control for the series.

Haseowolf is correct. I know that I"m getting a little too informationy, but I love this sort of talk.

First of all, Dragonball as well as 99% of animation is drawn at 24 frames per second. So the calculation is already a bit off. But even that doesn't matter since Dragonball does live in the world of limited animation. In the biz, they call it animating on 1s, 2s, 3s, etc. 1s means that there is a completely new drawing ever 1 frame...so...that would mean 24 drawings in a second. Unfortunately (or fortunately for those poor overworked animators) only Disney goes the 1s route.

When animation is on 2s, it means there is new animation every 2 frames....so....12 new drawings per second. With 3s it goes on to 8 new drawings per second and etc. Although even then, lots of times animators switch between speeds all of the time. For Dragonball...I think an episode can average from 8s to 2s.

Sorry for the lecture, I just thought that I could contribute some knowledge, even if many of you already knew it.

[Tanuking]

These are more miscolored than off model.
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs233&d=08472&f=v ... lor913.png

[SonEric84]

Ohh I earned a bold title for my name cool

In all seriousness, I apparently took your comment more seriously then it was meant, my apologies.

And yes, these are cool.

It's cool, no worries. Hard to read emotions sometimes through text on a screen.

[Haseowolf]

Haseowolf is correct. I know that I"m getting a little too informationy, but I love this sort of talk.

First of all, Dragonball as well as 99% of animation is drawn at 24 frames per second. So the calculation is already a bit off. But even that doesn't matter since Dragonball does live in the world of limited animation. In the biz, they call it animating on 1s, 2s, 3s, etc. 1s means that there is a completely new drawing ever 1 frame...so...that would mean 24 drawings in a second. Unfortunately (or fortunately for those poor overworked animators) only Disney goes the 1s route.

When animation is on 2s, it means there is new animation every 2 frames....so....12 new drawings per second. With 3s it goes on to 8 new drawings per second and etc. Although even then, lots of times animators switch between speeds all of the time. For Dragonball...I think an episode can average from 8s to 2s.

Sorry for the lecture, I just thought that I could contribute some knowledge, even if many of you already knew it.

Right on the money! Good to know you know whats going on. But I'm glad I had my info thanks to my History and Trends of Animation (YAY for going to school for animation!).

[Commander_Red]

They don't draw every frame you see, they draw on and stay on that or add other layers for talking and blinking and otherwise reuse old animations instead of drawing the scene all over again.

How many times did we see this poor tree get blown up and killed?

[Captain Awesome]

When you go through thousands upon thousands of animation cells every day, you're liable to miss things like that. Especially if you got used to drawing a character a certain way. Think about it this way. 30 frames per second, sixty seconds per minuet. thats 180 cells just for one minuet.

Dragonball is primarily animated on twos, meaning 12 frames a second and that's only during character movement, which we know by watching the show can sometimes be rather sparse, there's hours of animation that consist of nothing but mouth flaps on static character cels.

There isn't anywhere near as much animation as you seem to think there is.

[Zenkai Power]

When you go through thousands upon thousands of animation cells every day, you're liable to miss things like that. Especially if you got used to drawing a character a certain way. Think about it this way. 30 frames per second, sixty seconds per minuet. thats 180 cells just for one minuet.

Dragonball is primarily animated on twos, meaning 12 frames a second and that's only during character movement, which we know by watching the show can sometimes be rather sparse, there's hours of animation that consist of nothing but mouth flaps on static character cels.

There isn't anywhere near as much animation as you seem to think there is.

That's not to say there isn't still a LOT of cels used per episode either. Sometimes though, they re-use the same sequence of cels against a different background... in a DIFFERENT episode. A good example of this can be found in this YT vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhOR68tiU-Y

... if you watch towards the middle or so of that music video you'll see two exact same animations of Cell flying towards the camera and then you'll note that the only difference is the background.

[Kid Trunks]

What about the Vegeta vs Zarbon fight round 2? Vegeta's armor was busted up during it, but I could swear they reused footage from the first fight and we see Vegeta's armor completely repaired for a few seconds.

[disturbed001]

How many times did we see this poor tree get blown up and killed?

That's awesome.

[Castor Troy]

What about the Vegeta vs Zarbon fight round 2? Vegeta's armor was busted up during it, but I could swear they reused footage from the first fight and we see Vegeta's armor completely repaired for a few seconds.

You're not imagining things. That's what actually happens.