What do the Perfect File books say about Trunks/Goten? SSJ2?

[SSJ2bardock]

Are we gonna bring Budokai 2 with its SSJ2 Trunks into this?

He still can in Budokai 3...... and IW.

[Rocketman]

I honestly don't see why Trunks and Goten too couldn't reach those levels on their own,

Because they sit around playing grab-ass instead of training.

[Thanos6]

I honestly don't see why Trunks and Goten too couldn't reach those levels on their own,

Because they sit around grabbing each other's ass instead of training.

Fixed for you.

But yes, agreed. Mirai Trunks should have it far earlier than them.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...But yes, agreed. Mirai Trunks should have it far earlier than them.

If Mirai continued his training following the defeat of Imperfect Cell in his timeline, he should have achieved Super Saiyan 2 rather quickly. Therefore, Budokai 3 was not too far off in depicting him in that way. He should have been one in Another Road.

[Thanos6]

...But yes, agreed. Mirai Trunks should have it far earlier than them.

If Mirai continued his training following the defeat of Imperfect Cell in his timeline, he should have achieved Super Saiyan 2 rather quickly. Therefore, Budokai 3 was not too far off in depicting him in that way. He should have been one in Another Road.

Just one of many reasons that game sucked.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...But yes, agreed. Mirai Trunks should have it far earlier than them.

If Mirai continued his training following the defeat of Imperfect Cell in his timeline, he should have achieved Super Saiyan 2 rather quickly. Therefore, Budokai 3 was not too far off in depicting him in that way. He should have been one in Another Road.

Just one of many reasons that game sucked.

It had its highpoints except the story eventually became a rehash of the Buu Saga instead of approaching it in a different manner. The part that sucks was that they did not give Trunks the “Ultimate” power-up in that timeline instead of Son Gohan.

[Casual Matt]

I honestly don't see why Trunks and Goten too couldn't reach those levels on their own, but alas TOEI never thought to take advantage of it in their feverish attempts at pimping out Son Gokû.

Meh. I'd rather Super Saiyan 2 at least remain something special with Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta being the only unfused warriors to attain it.

Goten and Trunks didn't even really do anything to deserve a regular Super Saiyan transformation.

[Bussani]

Goten and Trunks didn't even really do anything to deserve a regular Super Saiyan transformation.

Took the words out of my m....keyboard.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...Goten and Trunks didn't even really do anything to deserve a regular Super Saiyan transformation.

I actually liked the idea that there was two more Super Saiyans and on top of that, they did not have to work for it, since it really made Kakarrot seem less special.

When Son Gohan was getting all the lucky breaks, no one complained about that so why do fans dislike that Chibi-Trunks and Goten was granted something unique without damn near killing themselves as Vegeta had to do.

[Yi Xing Long]

...Goten and Trunks didn't even really do anything to deserve a regular Super Saiyan transformation.

I actually liked the idea that there was two more Super Saiyans and on top of that, they did not have to work for it, since it really made Kakarrot seem less special.

When Son Gohan was getting all the lucky breaks, no one complained about that so why do fans dislike that Chibi-Trunks and Goten was granted something unique without damn near killing themselves as Vegeta had to do.

The reason is that everyone else who achieved SSJ had to work their ass off and/or go through immense emotional and physical trauma, where as Goten and Trunks just turn SSJ like it's absolutely nothing.

[Rocketman]

When Son Gohan was getting all the lucky breaks, no one complained about that

Hi. *waves*

[SSJ2bardock]

When Son Gohan was getting all the lucky breaks, no one complained about that

Hi. *waves*

I'd like to introduce you to Gozar.

[Bussani]

Even Gohan worked harder than Goten and Trunks. Training with Piccolo for the fight with Vegeta and Nappa, training with Goku and Piccolo for the fight with the Androids, then training with Goku for the fight with Cell. Sure, his whole life wasn't dedicated to it, but each of those times was at least a solid year of training. What did Goten and Trunks ever do?

[goodguy777]

Even Gohan worked harder than Goten and Trunks. Training with Piccolo for the fight with Vegeta and Nappa, training with Goku and Piccolo for the fight with the Androids, then training with Goku for the fight with Cell. Sure, his whole life wasn't dedicated to it, but each of those times was at least a solid year of training. What did Goten and Trunks ever do?

Goten = training with Chi-Chi, Gohan and Chibi-Trunks.

Chibi-Trunks = training with Vegeta and Goten.

[The Tori-bot]

Even Gohan worked harder than Goten and Trunks. Training with Piccolo for the fight with Vegeta and Nappa, training with Goku and Piccolo for the fight with the Androids, then training with Goku for the fight with Cell. Sure, his whole life wasn't dedicated to it, but each of those times was at least a solid year of training. What did Goten and Trunks ever do?

Goten = training with Chi-Chi, Gohan and Chibi-Trunks.

Chibi-Trunks = training with Vegeta and Goten.

I didn't think Chi-Chi and Vegeta would be that cruel to their kids.

All we see in the anime is Chi-Chi kicking Goten, who was more powerful than her already anyway. His SSJ just kind of activated as a reflex defence mechanism.

We never see Chibi Trunks' first transformation, but I'd imagine Vegeta would have been much harder on him, mabye just enough to go through SSJ the old-fashioned way. And, since it's generally agreed that Goten and Trunks can reach SSJ so easily is because their fathers had already achieved it, how do we know if Trunks was concieved before or after Vegeta could do it?

I suppose it could go either way.

Peace, bitches.

[Saiyan-Professor]

When Son Gohan was getting all the lucky breaks, no one complained about that

Hi. *waves*

I knew I liked you for some reason. Waves back

Even Gohan worked harder than Goten and Trunks. Training with Piccolo for the fight with Vegeta and Nappa, training with Goku and Piccolo for the fight with the Androids, then training with Goku for the fight with Cell. Sure, his whole life wasn't dedicated to it, but each of those times was at least a solid year of training. What did Goten and Trunks ever do?

Yeah, but that does not add up to all the blood sweat and tears Vegeta gave to become stronger and hell I will admit that Kakarrot worked just as hard and I almost dislike him as much as Son Gohan. Yet at the end of the day, he received Super Saiyan 3 but Vegeta was stuck with only Super Saiyan 2 while everyone’s favorite lazy sorry excuse for a Saiyan golden boy received the “Ultimate” power-up. Justice was served when Dragonball GT aired and Son Gohan lost the power up and he was just as sorry as one of the humans.

[Bussani]

Yeah, but that does not add up to all the blood sweat and tears Vegeta gave to become stronger and hell I will admit that Kakarrot worked just as hard and I almost dislike him as much as Son Gohan. Yet at the end of the day, he received Super Saiyan 3 but Vegeta was stuck with only Super Saiyan 2 while everyone’s favorite lazy sorry excuse for a Saiyan golden boy received the “Ultimate” power-up. Justice was served when Dragonball GT aired and Son Gohan lost the power up and he was just as sorry as one of the humans.

Personally I think Gohan's quick gains in strength prove that half-breed Saiyajin really are special. Usually you'd look at humans and Saiyajin and think, wow, those Saiyajin are amazing. But mix the two together and the human blood actually adds something special that the Saiyajin are lacking. I like that.

Is it fair that Gohan didn't have to work as hard? Well, Dragon Ball isn't exactly fair, so probably not. But at least he put in a lot of work when he had to. And even if his ultimate power up only required him to sit still for several hours, he went through it for the right reasons...and really, all it did was release all the power he already had, didn't it? Goku went through a similar process when he drank the super ultra holy water (?) before fighting Piccolo Daimo.

Goten and Trunks though...it was way too easy with them. Even if they did train since they were very young, their strength was just insane. The real explanation is just that they'd be left out of all the fights if they weren't, I suppose.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, but that does not add up to all the blood sweat and tears Vegeta gave to become stronger and hell I will admit that Kakarrot worked just as hard and I almost dislike him as much as Son Gohan. Yet at the end of the day, he received Super Saiyan 3 but Vegeta was stuck with only Super Saiyan 2 while everyone’s favorite lazy sorry excuse for a Saiyan golden boy received the “Ultimate” power-up. Justice was served when Dragonball GT aired and Son Gohan lost the power up and he was just as sorry as one of the humans.

Personally I think Gohan's quick gains in strength prove that half-breed Saiyajin really are special. Usually you'd look at humans and Saiyajin and think, wow, those Saiyajin are amazing. But mix the two together and the human blood actually adds something special that the Saiyajin are lacking. I like that.

Is it fair that Gohan didn't have to work as hard? Well, Dragon Ball isn't exactly fair, so probably not. But at least he put in a lot of work when he had to. And even if his ultimate power up only required him to sit still for several hours, he went through it for the right reasons...and really, all it did was release all the power he already had, didn't it? Goku went through a similar process when he drank the super ultra holy water (?) before fighting Piccolo Daimo.

Goten and Trunks though...it was way too easy with them. Even if they did train since they were very young, their strength was just insane. The real explanation is just that they'd be left out of all the fights if they weren't, I suppose.

I figure being the Sons of Super Saiyans probably had something to do with it.

[Bussani]

I figure being the Sons of Super Saiyans probably had something to do with it.

Yeah. I'll bet their sperm were SSJ at that point.

[Horgus]

One important point that can be brought up is how clearly there couldn't have been any Super Saiyans before Kakkaroto, because such a powerful male in a primitive society surely would have had offspring.

Many offspring. O_O