Some thoughts on DBGT

Zenkai Power · Post by **Zenkai Power** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:37 pm

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not a big fan of DBGT. I don't hate it, but I don't like it either. I'm wondering, what is it exactly that makes it not work? I always feel like DB and DBZ, although different in tone, are still part of the same thing... DBGT feels completely different.

Maybe it's the animation changing slightly? I mean, it didn't change much, but it seems like it got crappier in some places and Goku's face seems different although I'm not exactly sure what they did (seems like a skin tone color change though)...

They really messed up on giving the characters other than Goku a real chance to shine. This could have been a moment where Vegeta gets to really do something... or more specifically Uub/Goten/Trunks.

Such wasted potential on those characters. I think if Toriyama had a bigger hand in it he probably would have focused more on Uub or Goten/Trunks.

Speaking of which. They reallllly gave Trunks a lame costume design for GT. And they really messed up Vegeta with his hair cut and that mustache. I thought in DBZ they mentioned that saiyans don't cut their hair?

... one thing I do like about GT is the music. But the Japanese music. The dub music is uber bad.

Oh and that ending. I really can't stand the end of DBGT. It seems handled poorly. I mean, WHAT happened to Goku? Where did he go? What is with the balls absorbing into him and his little crack about never having been that tired before? His clothes were still on the ground although he appears to have left with them on? .... is head dead? No halo. Is he becoming Shenlong?

They just leave it in the air after hundreds of episodes of DB/DBZ and give you an ending that makes no sense. Grrr.

SSJ4 is cool I suppose but it bothers me that pants come with the transformation (yeah yeah I know but it's true, it makes more sense for that to happen with Fusion or something)..

In any case, I am just wondering what some of the rest of you think of GT.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:48 pm

The biggest issue I have with GT is them chibifying Goku.
I couldn't stand it. Its probably my inner fangirl speaking, but it made me upset that I wouldn't get to see the well-built adult Goku walking around after episode 1 was over.
Trunks is too bishounen to hold me over.

Speaking of Trunks, what was up with his and most of the characters' outfits? I realize it was the mid-90's and all, but...yeesh; most of them look horrible. @_@ (the only exception I can think of being Uubu. He looked just fine. Except for maybe when he donned that Papaya Man outfit for an episode).

Also, Vegeta's "moostache" makes me sad. Eternally thankful they chopped it off halfway through the series.

I would've preferred Vegeta to have either taken Pan or Trunks' place on the ship. I mean who else has such vast experience in outer space?

And a Pan who was a little more similar to the one from the end of dbz would've been nice to have. Dbz-Pan seemed like a much more fun character than her gt counterpart.

Oh! You know what I would've liked instead of the sheer ridiculousness that was the "Super 17" arc (They CREATED a full android of 17 in hell? Really? o_O ) how about some demon monsters from Dabura's universe?

That said, I did like the third GT ending song. And I like Dan Dan because its easy to remember the words/sing.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:11 pm

And a Pan who was a little more similar to the one from the end of dbz would've been nice to have. Dbz-Pan seemed like a much more fun character than her gt counterpart.

Agreed. I got the impression from Z-Pan that she was the next Goku. She was so much like he was as a kid.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:36 pm

My 3 biggest problems were:

1. Lack of character developement- Aside from goku nearly ever charcter comes off as weak and insufficiant, Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Uub not the re-incarnation of Majin Buu, a villian stronger than Goku was, Now assuming his re-incarnation trained with him for all that time, shouldn't Uub be stronger. And yet he has little to no major impact on the series and joins Goten, Trunks, Gohan and even Vegeta to an extent, In the DBGT lost potential club.

2.Poorly done villians- With the exception of Bebi, all of the villians last a couple episodes each. This really bugged me with the Super 17 arc. Instead of havins a long epic battle with super 17 and the Z warriors, We get a 6 episode saga. Pretty much all of the shadow dragons died in 1 or 2 episodes, hell even Yi Xing Long didn't have a huge final battle and he was the last villian of the series!

3.It could have been so much more- I think that for a lot of people, the first 20 episodes left them thinking "well this is fucking boring, I dont want to watch this shit", which basically fucked the shows ratings, which led to an early cancellation. The writing was for the most part lazy, I dont know about everyone else, but I felt that GT was just some basic plots in order to draw out one thing SSJ4. Everyone thing revolves around SSJ4 Goku and because of this, we dont get to see a SSJ3 Vegeta, or an adult Gotenks, or anything else really besides SSJ4 Goku and in the last 6 episodes SSJ4 Veget and (once again with the SSJ4) Gogeta.

So basically the series was just okay for me, if Toei had put a little more work into it, it would have been alote better. Not to mention how terrible the first 20 episodes were.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:41 pm

I actually enjoyed the series more early on, it was a nice change of pace from the Boo arc.

I have mixed feelings on GT, I enjoy it as a whole, but that's because I approach it a different way when I view it, I just take it for what it is, a 64 episode long filler arc.

kusakun004 · Post by **kusakun004** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:55 pm

I am probably one of the few to actually like GT. I liked how fights didn't drag on for 30-some episodes (like the Freeza fight) and the series wasn't so serious all the time, but it was at parts. Also, I felt that the theme songs were a great part of watching the show. The songs actually changed. I didn't have to be annoyed with ZENKAI Power being played 199 episodes straight and no animation changes. I believe Blue Velvet was only used for 9 episodes as the ending. But, yeah. The plot holes made me wonder.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:00 pm

gogeta 00 wrote:This really bugged me with the Super 17 arc. Instead of havins a long epic battle with super 17 and the Z warriors, We get a 6 episode saga.

That saga alone had more plot holes than the rest of the series combined, and Goku turned into a complete idiot when fighting Super 17 for some reason.

"Durp durp firing ki at him only seems to make him stronger. I'll keep trying though!"

I'm glad it was over fast. Rather than making it longer, I'd have them make it better first.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:25 pm

GT is just GT. I sit back,watch and enjoy it for what it is. Just like watching the DB/Z movies.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:30 pm

I think GT gets a lot more flak than it actually deserves. Believe me, it's not perfect, but its a nice little addition to just have. That, and I like the ending. The ending to Z just didn't..."work" for me. It works just fine in and of itself, but the GT ending seems more "final" to me.

Besides, after 80+ episodes of Naruto filler...I'm thankful we got what we got.

Minigt · Post by **Minigt** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:32 pm

GT shows no respect for the characters and their development from DB to DBZ. GT is crapola for way to many reasons to list.
They gave Vegeta a moustache for gods sake!!!

For me, this is the only redeeming feature of GT

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=-WBwVgxdSvA

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:35 pm

Minigt wrote:GT shows no respect for the characters and their development from DB to DBZ. GT is crapola for way to many reasons to list.
They gave Vegeta a moustache for gods sake!!!

Yeah! And that stupid Buu arc! Gave Kuririn HAIR!!! And what about that whole making Goku grow up before the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai? MADNESS!!!

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:40 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:I actually enjoyed the series more early on, it was a nice change of pace from the Boo arc.

I have mixed feelings on GT, I enjoy it as a whole, but that's because I approach it a different way when I view it, I just take it for what it is, a 64 episode long filler arc.

Yep, kind of like the third arc of Rurouni Kenshin. Not great, but has some fun humour that you can enjoy without thinking of how it affects the series, plus some decent action scenes, even if they aren't up to the standard set by the rest of the series. Although I prefer GT over that, I just think it's a fair comparison.

Now I'm kind of worried that I'm going to be hit with a slew of remarks on why Rurouni Kenshin sucked as a whole. Or do other people like it aswell? I'm not sure what else the average Dragon Ball fan is into, I'm still too new here.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:46 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:Yeah! And that stupid Buu arc! Gave Kuririn HAIR!!! And what about that whole making Goku grow up before the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai? MADNESS!!!

Except we knew Kuririn could grow hair. He simply shaved it due to his training lifestyle. As soon as he settled down, he loosened up (hence why he also changed into regular clothes). With Vegeta, however, it was impossible for him to grow a mustache or even change his hairstyle.

My biggest gripe with GT, plotholes aside, was how the focus once again went on the Saiyans. Even worse, all on Goku with everyone being substantially weak. Piccolo? Haha, he gets beamed and decides to die on Earth from the explosion rather than die from Gohan's Kamehame-Ha while he was infected by Baby. Tenshinhan? No where to be seen until the last episode and without any dialogue. Oob? Ohhhh boy. Someone who was SUPPOSED to be Goku's successor could barely handle Baby, even after merging with Majin Boo.

Oob SHOULD have been as strong as Goku, if not stronger. WHY was he weaker, even with his merging with Boo? This is something that annoyed me. Especially when they teased us with the idea of Oob Fusing with anyone of the group but never delivered.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:48 pm

Battles don't need to be long to be epic. XD *thinks of the new special*
... Well, yeah. The new special provided enemies that, while not as threatening as the GT villains, were fairly versitile; they brought out the second-tier fighters, toed the line of the top-tier fighters (kinda bearly, but...), and wound up causing a big enough mess that the shafted Humans club + Piccolo got to be useful without screwing up power "??"-ness.
But, you know, why bother with that in GT, when we could have Goku play around a bit, take a breather and let the others get slapped around, then come back and win? GT did have the honor of not repeating Villain defeat methods in itself... but using one of each of the major categories found in the movies (Kamehameha (sun optional), Deadly punch of death, Genkidama).

I haven't seen the last episode of DBZ in Japanese, but I was pleased with how the FUNi score was handled (Was that an attempt at a nostalgia remix at the end? Actually, I could imagine the Japanese score doing something similar (though it'd reference the Japanese themes, of course)).
... And then, "STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR, BICHES!". Wait, what the HFIL?
I actually have the bilingual DVDs for the start of GT... but... yeah. It just seems so completely separated from everything else... The Goku we have in GT isn't really Goku from Z or early DB; GT Pan is a new character... Trunks is... umm... what? Generic cunning scoundrel male sidekick? A Bulma/Yamcha fus--ur, forget that part.
*sigh*. Oh, and let's pull a Genki Dama out of thin air. Throw in a couple of arms... and maybe some legs... Oh, wait a second. I think I need to start over. Thing doesn't look... natural.
Ok, same way. S, more different S. (J4 optional). Close it up real good at the top for the mouth. Next, using consommate 'V's...
... And now he needs a name. How about, Shenron, the BALLiNATOR. Oh yeah, look at his magesty...
Well, there's my dragon. Let's see how the other students are doing...
How's it going there, two-star dragon? ... Are you getting beat up by Pan? ... I said consommate 'V's! Consommate! Guy wouldn't know magesty if it bit him in the face...
Vegeta... you just... keep doing your thing there.
Genki Dama? Awe crap, I didn't know you were doing another one...
... I'll improve on your methods! Fastforward'd!

... Yeah, so I guess since my post degraded into a poorly-written Trogdor reference, I should end by saying that GT isn't particularly fun, from what I've viewed. If it had more WTF? Romance, it might pass for a fanfic.

And the tone, the overall feel, and the storytelling... like a completely different show.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:52 pm

Tsukento wrote:With Vegeta, however, it was impossible for him to grow a mustache or even change his hairstyle.

So Nappa had that mustache since birth?

Edit: And didn't Vegeta's father have one too?

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:54 pm

Bussani wrote:So Nappa had that mustache since birth?

Edit: And didn't Vegeta's father have one too?

Except out of all of Vegeta's time as an adult, we've NEVER seen him with facial hair. And considering his travels in space, I believe shaving would be impossible.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:56 pm

Tsukento wrote:
Bussani wrote:So Nappa had that mustache since birth?

Edit: And didn't Vegeta's father have one too?
Except out of all of Vegeta's time as an adult, we've NEVER seen him with facial hair. And considering his travels in space, I believe shaving would be impossible.

If Piccolo can have a clothes beam, I don't why Vegeta can't have a "shave" beam...or at least learn to wield his ki veeeery carefully.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:57 pm

Bussani wrote:
Tsukento wrote:With Vegeta, however, it was impossible for him to grow a mustache or even change his hairstyle.
So Nappa had that mustache since birth?

Edit: And didn't Vegeta's father have one too?

I think for the sake of continuity, we'll have to assume he did.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:58 pm

Tsukento wrote:Except out of all of Vegeta's time as an adult, we've NEVER seen him with facial hair. And considering his travels in space, I believe shaving would be impossible.

Most anime characters don't need to shave. They must just...will it not to grow.

Big Momma wrote:If Piccolo can have a clothes beam, I don't why Vegeta can't have a "shave" beam...or at least learn to wield his ki veeeery carefully.

I loled.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:08 pm

As far as the facial hair goes, I suspect Saiyans only start growing it once they get, "over the hill." When you think about it, the only Saiyans we've seen sporting face-fuzz (ones that matter anyhoo, I'm sure there've been dudes in the backgrounds with mutton chops or something) have all been pretty comparatively old. Nappa, King Vegeta, Paragus, and GT Vegeta are the only ones I can think of at the moment.

Likewise, that could be what allows them to change their hairstyle too. We know Nappa had a pretty impressive crop up there back in his younger days, and Vegeta cut his hair shorter in GT and it stayed that way... Things like that change with humans, it's not far-fetched to think it'd happen with Saiyans, too, albeit a bit differently. Even though they keep their strength and overall youthful appearance much longer than humans, it'd make sense for there to be some other signs of age.