DBGT Season 1, 5.1 surround effects trick

[Super 17]

As most of you know these new seasons have 5.1, which mean you can take the voices out, except for the sound effects. These means we can probably get some bgm's unreleased, by doing this trick and combining them. I have a question, are these new sound effects made by Funimation, or is it from Toei that passed them to them? If so, I was wondering, so I could take the sound effects, to make it way easier. Here is the first one I did, for GT. It's from episode 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaylMnWV_BU&fmt=18

[DBHighDefinition]

As most of you know these new seasons have 5.1, which mean you can take the voices out, except for the sound effects. These means we can probably get some bgm's unreleased, by doing this trick and combining them. I have a question, are these new sound effects made by Funimation, or is it from Toei that passed them to them? If so, I was wondering, so I could take the sound effects, to make it way easier. Here is the first one I did, for GT. It's from episode 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaylMnWV_BU&fmt=18

I believe they are the original sound effects by Toei. I don't re-call FUNimation ever creating any sound effects...for Dragon Ball anyway.

[Timo]

Clearly Toei SFX. ^.-

[Tweaker]

Yeah, that's the original SFX.

That trick is pretty cool, though! Are there many scenes which don't use sound effects at all? This could be used to get a whole slew of BGMs without any interference at all. It's a very cool prospect.

[Super 17]

Well there's only one downside to this. For some reason you can slightly hear the talking when they are talking in their heads, or when there inside a ship or like in myu's laboratory. Weirdly enough only those place it can't be taken off the voices completely. The only places is when they are outside of Earth or any other planet. Also in a normal house. I'm gonna try to get the recap music complete without any sound effects, because when the narrator talks it takes it off completely.

[DBHighDefinition]

Well there's only one downside to this. For some reason you can slightly hear the talking when they are talking in their heads, or when there inside a ship or like in myu's laboratory. Weirdly enough only those place it can't be taken off the voices completely. The only places is when they are outside of Earth or any other planet. Also in a normal house. I'm gonna try to get the recap music complete without any sound effects, because when the narrator talks it takes it off completely.

Yeah, it's because the echo's are classed as sound effects, they'd be on the same channel.

[xzero]

A guy discovered that this was possible with the dub score, particularly with Seasons 2 - 4, so he ripped a bunch of tracks which were unreleased by Faulconer. A few examples include the Namekian Theme, the music from where Ginyu and Jeice arrive and confront Goku and Vegeta, Freeza-Ginyu Beat, and Vegeta's Death. I asked him about doing this for GT, and he said it should work the same way, though he didn't have the time to get all of the music.

Two problems with this, however. Depending on the use of the channels, voices, echoes, and SFX appear in the music channels for seasons 6 & 7 (not sure about GT). Depending on how bad they are, they can be quieted, though I'm not sure how. This rendered the 'full' version of "Gohan Angers" un-rippable because the sound effects (and possibly scream echo) were prominent in the music channels. Still, as it has been done, it proves that it's possible.

[DBHighDefinition]

A guy discovered that this was possible with the dub score, particularly with Seasons 2 - 4, so he ripped a bunch of tracks which were unreleased by Faulconer. A few examples include the Namekian Theme, the music from where Ginyu and Jeice arrive and confront Goku and Vegeta, Freeza-Ginyu Beat, and Vegeta's Death. I asked him about doing this for GT, and he said it should work the same way, though he didn't have the time to get all of the music.

Two problems with this, however. Depending on the use of the channels, voices, echoes, and SFX appear in the music channels for seasons 6 & 7 (not sure about GT). Depending on how bad they are, they can be quieted, though I'm not sure how. This rendered the 'full' version of "Gohan Angers" un-rippable because the sound effects (and possibly scream echo) were prominent in the music channels. Still, as it has been done, it proves that it's possible.

Care to know what this guy is called? ( YouTube maybe? )

[Super 17]

A guy discovered that this was possible with the dub score, particularly with Seasons 2 - 4, so he ripped a bunch of tracks which were unreleased by Faulconer. A few examples include the Namekian Theme, the music from where Ginyu and Jeice arrive and confront Goku and Vegeta, Freeza-Ginyu Beat, and Vegeta's Death. I asked him about doing this for GT, and he said it should work the same way, though he didn't have the time to get all of the music.

Two problems with this, however. Depending on the use of the channels, voices, echoes, and SFX appear in the music channels for seasons 6 & 7 (not sure about GT). Depending on how bad they are, they can be quieted, though I'm not sure how. This rendered the 'full' version of "Gohan Angers" un-rippable because the sound effects (and possibly scream echo) were prominent in the music channels. Still, as it has been done, it proves that it's possible.

Yeah a name please, I'm really looking forward to this.

[SSj_Rambo]

So this trick only works with 5.1 audio tracks?

[xzero]

So this trick only works with 5.1 audio tracks?

Yeah. I think the way it works is that the voices are, for the most part, in the centermost channels, while the music tends to be in the outermost channels. You can isolate the music from the voices and SFX by simply silencing the channels and doing a little editing to remove the rest in the music channel.

[cRookie_Monster]

We used to add sounds in for a little bit when we did the mix. I don't think Funi ever did when they were doing the mixing.

I bet the sounds we added during the Ginyu\early Frieza Saga are probably not in the current releases.

btw, there's another trick you can use with the Faulconer stuff to get the music unreleased. You can phase reverse the SFX and Dialog when there's no Japanese music and then combine it with the version that has the American score. That will cancel out the SFX and Dialog in the American version. It's a trick people use to remove vocals from songs as well.

[Super 17]

So let's see, once the center channels are removed to take the dialogue out, how can the outermost channels which have the SFX be removed?

[DBHighDefinition]

We used to add sounds in for a little bit when we did the mix. I don't think Funi ever did when they were doing the mixing.

I bet the sounds we added during the Ginyu\early Freeza Saga are probably not in the current releases.

btw, there's another trick you can use with the Faulconer stuff to get the music unreleased. You can phase reverse the SFX and Dialog when there's no Japanese music and then combine it with the version that has the American score. That will cancel out the SFX and Dialog in the American version. It's a trick people use to remove vocals from songs as well.

Would you mind giving a little explanation on how to do that?

[cRookie_Monster]

We used to add sounds in for a little bit when we did the mix. I don't think Funi ever did when they were doing the mixing.

I bet the sounds we added during the Ginyu\early Freeza Saga are probably not in the current releases.

btw, there's another trick you can use with the Faulconer stuff to get the music unreleased. You can phase reverse the SFX and Dialog when there's no Japanese music and then combine it with the version that has the American score. That will cancel out the SFX and Dialog in the American version. It's a trick people use to remove vocals from songs as well.

Would you mind giving a little explanation on how to do that?

hehe, I actually almost had an entire Youtube video describing it. It's kinda tough to pull off I would bet because you need to sample align things perfectly. I'm not sure I want to tackle full detail here in the forums... I'll see if I can revive that vid at some point. The night I was inspired to work on it my friend ended up talking to me all night on Live Messenger and I didn't get it done lol.

Anyway you need an app that can do phase reversal..or inversion. Audacity can do it. I was actually using Audacity in my video cause its a free download.









EDIT: Ah heck I'm just sitting here watching a movie with my daughter..I can try and write some theory down at least.



A sound wave when expressed mathematically is just an oscillation above and below 0.

IE this saw wave:

3___________________________3
__2_______________________2___2
___1____________________ 1_______1
_____0________________0____________0
______-1___________-1________________-1
________-2_____-2______________________-2
___________-3____________________________-3

(hopefully that displays correctly for people)

if you invert that you are just flipping the sines so it looks like this:


_______________3____________________________3
_____________2___2_______________________2
___________1______1____________________1
________0___________0________________0
_____-1_______________-1___________-1
___-2____________________-2_____-2
-3__________________________-3


So if you play those two waves together synced what happens?
YOu add them up

First sample:

3+ -3 = 0
2 + -2 = 0
1 + -1 = 0
0 + 0 = 0
-1 + 1 = 0

etc

YOu hear nothing. THis how noise cancelling headphones work, its the principle people use to try to pull vocals out of tunes, and its how you can theoretically rip Faulconer tracks provided the same scene w\Japanese score has no music ^^

The hard part is you have to line the samples up EXACTLY and the volumes need to be IDENTICAL.

If stuff doesn't line up it won't work perfectly. This can be hard because the waves won't look identical. The music skews the waveform so it'll be hard to tell which sample to put things on. Btw if you use a section with Japanese music, it'll still cancel Dialog and SFX...but the Japanese music will still be there, so you'll have both scores overlaid.

Someone once pointed out to me this technique could also be used to remove the music...though I think that would be even harder cause the music is so edited. YOu'd have to phase reverse the tracks off the CDs and add them to the American score. BUt in the show the tracks are often edited, elongated, pitch shifted, had elements added, combined with other tracks,mixed at varying volumes, etc. Probably a tough job.

[Super 17]

Wow that's very cool, I'm gonna try that. Anyways I have made a short version of the DBGT Japanese BGM. It's pretty damn good, just as if it were to come on CD. No SFX is heard, only the BGM. If anyone is interested send me a PM, and i'll send the mp3 stereo quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDBn-s4AlI&fmt=18

[JulieYBM]

It sounds like the same technique Kei might have used to place the Shuki Levy music in that SSj Gokû video of his on YT...

[Tweaker]

Wow that's very cool, I'm gonna try that. Anyways I have made a short version of the DBGT Japanese BGM. It's pretty damn good, just as if it were to come on CD. No SFX is heard, only the BGM. If anyone is interested send me a PM, and i'll send the mp3 stereo quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDBn-s4AlI&fmt=18

Great rip! This is a pretty awesome, upbeat song in general, so it's very cool to hear it standalone without any sound effects.

I wish more DVD releases were compatible with this sort of technique; there are a few OVAs I'd like to rip music from that never got an OST release. This would be a great way to do so, given some clever splicing from certain parts of the video without any sound effects playing.

How many more unreleased BGMs are present in GT? I'm actually not positive on what BGMs were released--I don't have the OST or anything like that--but some of the unreleased BGMs are usually the best, albeit the most obscure.

[Super 17]

Great rip! This is a pretty awesome, upbeat song in general, so it's very cool to hear it standalone without any sound effects.

I wish more DVD releases were compatible with this sort of technique; there are a few OVAs I'd like to rip music from that never got an OST release. This would be a great way to do so, given some clever splicing from certain parts of the video without any sound effects playing.

How many more unreleased BGMs are present in GT? I'm actually not positive on what BGMs were released--I don't have the OST or anything like that--but some of the unreleased BGMs are usually the best, albeit the most obscure.

Thanks, it was a little hard to edit it to be very good, especially the quality. Now as for the unreleased BGM for DBGT, there is about, my guess, between 96-98% of the BGM unreleased. There was a soundtrack for the DBGT 10th anniversary which is used in the series, but only like 10 tracks out of like 44 were used in the show, the rest was used for the movie itself. Now out of those 10 tracks, only like 5 of them are used a lot on the episodes, and the other 5 are only used like once or twice in the whole 64 episodes of GT.

Now I'm just waiting for DBGT Season 2 to come, that way I can finish this theme perfectly and a lot more. You know what I hate about DBGT, is that the BGM's are mostly used with sound effects. It's not like in Z, where there were moments of huge silence just playing the BGM's. I guess it's also due that GT is only 64 episodes, and not like 4 times more like in DBZ.

[kei17]

It sounds like the same technique Kei might have used to place the Shuki Levy music in that SSj Gokû video of his on YT...

Yes I used the same way to remove BGM. But, specifically, not the same way. There is a tool you can remove sounds like the technique
cRookie_Monster described. It's 歌声りっぷ(Utagoe Rip) and you can get free on the Internet but there is only Japanese version I guess.

Goku's tranformation with (almost) no music
http://www.4shared.com/file/74566589/e2 ... d=5d9d9ee4