Dragon Ball GT: Season 1 Discussion

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:57 pm

You know the easiest way would have been for them to either use the Japanese title cards or translated them properly for the sole reason that the announcer repeats the titles in the Japanese version and because the dub announcer doesn't.

I mean that's what people do already and that's what Funi did for One Piece but I guess Dragon Ball is too hard.

Oh well if I want GT looks like I'm looking for the singles. They've got more stuff in them than these.

Arika · Post by **Arika** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:04 pm

Arika wrote:I have a question about the GT set. Are the logo's on the front and the spine also embossed like the Z sets? And is the box just as thick as the Z sets (although it has 5 discs)?

Noone?

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:40 pm

Vekurotto wrote:You know the easiest way would have been for them to either use the Japanese title cards or translated them properly for the sole reason that the announcer repeats the titles in the Japanese version and because the dub announcer doesn't.

I mean that's what people do already and that's what Funi did for One Piece but I guess Dragon Ball is too hard.

Oh well if I want GT looks like I'm looking for the singles. They've got more stuff in them than these.

Funny thing is that they RENAMED the episodes for seasons 1 and 2 when they redubbed it. I don't see what's so difficult about translating the damn titles.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:44 pm

Tsukento wrote:Funny thing is that they RENAMED the episodes for seasons 1 and 2 when they redubbed it. I don't see what's so difficult about translating the damn titles.

Shocking Twist! Domestic Company Twice Renames Episode Titles?! --> Goku Returns!

DBHighDefinition · Post by **DBHighDefinition** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Tsukento wrote:Funny thing is that they RENAMED the episodes for seasons 1 and 2 when they redubbed it. I don't see what's so difficult about translating the damn titles.
Shocking Twist! Domestic Company Twice Renames Episode Titles?! --> Goku Returns!

You sir, are now my idol.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:19 pm

Y'know, I actually have been thinking about these for a while, and I think I finally get why people are so on the fence here. There really is no reason at all for a fan of the original version to get these, since the ultimate uncut and unedited collection has already been provided via the four box sets of the singles.

If I buy this set, here's what I predict my schedule's going to be like here: I'm going to watch the dub with original music of every episode once, maybe twice or thrice for episodes I really like, and then I will most likely just stick to watching the original version from then onward. Sure, I'll probably come back and watch the dub if I'm ever in the mood for something different, but I'm probably going to spend most of my time watching the subbed version of this.

Yet, even with that considered, I still don't want the single box sets. I don't know if it's the horrific packaging or the huge number of discs or the shelf space or the way the discs are put together or what. I just really don't want them. Yes, the actual image quality is SLIGHTLY better on the singles with it's intact grain and less blur, but the difference is so slight that it honestly falls into a territory of irrelevance for me, and I even consider myself to be a bit of a picture quality nerd. Besides, the quality of the transfer itself on the singles annoys me more than the season sets' slight blurring ever could in a million years. The macroblocking on some discs almost makes certain episodes unwatchable. True, it's not as bad as the macroblocking on the old single where Gohan defeats Cell, but that's like comparing two pieces of crap here.

As much as I'd like to do without the slight blurring, the season sets win as far as transfer quality goes, and in the end, that's a key dealbreaker.

I'm sure that aside from the added dub / original music track, audio quality is going to be about the same when compared to the old discs, so that's almost a non-issue.

And then we've got uncut-ness, which is the main reason I'm on the fence here. The logo change, while I feel it's one of the most unnecessary edits in the history of FUNimation, is something that I can easily deal with. Then we have the original title cards and episode credits. Now, I can't read Japanese at all, so I'd be lying if I said that I didn't only want them for the sole purpose of preserving the show's original format, but to be perfectly honest, it's another thing that I can deal with. FUNi's releases of the movies and a majority of my other anime releases have already made me numb to losing original title cards and credits, so sadly, it hardly even affects me anymore.

What does bother me is the missing next episode previews. Honestly. This is what's getting me. I am completely baffled as to why these were possibly left off. Maybe FUNi excluded them so that casual fans wouldn't question why they weren't on the DBZ sets or something. Whatever the reason, it annoys me to no end and is the main reason why I'm still not sure whether I want these sets. I mean, I know I SHOULDN'T care, because really, FUNi wasn't given the previews for the other DB shows and they really add nothing more to the experience other than a slight chuckle, but I'd like to preserve the show's original format as much as possible and the fact that FUNi actually HAD the damn things and could have included them with no effort at all is what's getting me.

And then there's an eyecatcher issue that might or might not have been on the old discs to begin with. I don't know, nobody's really bothered to go and confirm that even though somebody said that honestly might be the case. This annoys me too, and the cutting of the music and animation is kinda the opposite of what FUNi's going for with "uncut" here (even if their definition of "uncut" applies only to the content of the episodes themselves and nothing more).

So really, the singles are the best package so far, but the ugliness of them, both inside and out, prevents me from wanting them. So I suppose the only option left is the season sets. I mean, it's not that it's a bad release. The improvements made to the dub are extremely praiseworthy but removing the episode previews almost cancels it out. It really is two steps forward and one step back. But I suppose that DOES count as one step forward, so I'll probably end up getting the season sets because I really just want to see the damn show because I never have.

But really, this only makes me wish FUNi would not make these things such a damn compromise. Regardless of all the good things they've done here, I'm sick of having to compare like this. We shouldn't have to lose something to gain another. The whole thing just makes my head hurt.

DBHighDefinition · Post by **DBHighDefinition** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:33 pm

MagicBox wrote:Y'know, I actually have been thinking about these for a while, and I think I finally get why people are so on the fence here. There really is no reason at all for a fan of the original version to get these, since the ultimate uncut and unedited collection has already been provided via the four box sets of the singles.

If I buy this set, here's what I predict my schedule's going to be like here: I'm going to watch the dub with original music of every episode once, maybe twice or thrice for episodes I really like, and then I will most likely just stick to watching the original version from then onward. Sure, I'll probably come back and watch the dub if I'm ever in the mood for something different, but I'm probably going to spend most of my time watching the subbed version of this.

Yet, even with that considered, I still don't want the single box sets. I don't know if it's the horrific packaging or the huge number of discs or the shelf space or the way the discs are put together or what. I just really don't want them. Yes, the actual image quality is SLIGHTLY better on the singles with it's intact grain and less blur, but the difference is so slight that it honestly falls into a territory of irrelevance for me, and I even consider myself to be a bit of a picture quality nerd. Besides, the quality of the transfer itself on the singles annoys me more than the season sets' slight blurring ever could in a million years. The macroblocking on some discs almost makes certain episodes unwatchable. True, it's not as bad as the macroblocking on the old single where Gohan defeats Cell, but that's like comparing two pieces of crap here.

As much as I'd like to do without the slight blurring, the season sets win as far as transfer quality goes, and in the end, that's a key dealbreaker.

I'm sure that aside from the added dub / original music track, audio quality is going to be about the same when compared to the old discs, so that's almost a non-issue.

And then we've got uncut-ness, which is the main reason I'm on the fence here. The logo change, while I feel it's one of the most unnecessary edits in the history of FUNimation, is something that I can easily deal with. Then we have the original title cards and episode credits. Now, I can't read Japanese at all, so I'd be lying if I said that I didn't only want them for the sole purpose of preserving the show's original format, but to be perfectly honest, it's another thing that I can deal with. FUNi's releases of the movies and a majority of my other anime releases have already made me numb to losing original title cards and credits, so sadly, it hardly even affects me anymore.

What does bother me is the missing next episode previews. Honestly. This is what's getting me. I am completely baffled as to why these were possibly left off. Maybe FUNi excluded them so that casual fans wouldn't question why they weren't on the DBZ sets or something. Whatever the reason, it annoys me to no end and is the main reason why I'm still not sure whether I want these sets. I mean, I know I SHOULDN'T care, because really, FUNi wasn't given the previews for the other DB shows and they really add nothing more to the experience other than a slight chuckle, but I'd like to preserve the show's original format as much as possible and the fact that FUNi actually HAD the damn things and could have included them with no effort at all is what's getting me.

And then there's an eyecatcher issue that might or might not have been on the old discs to begin with. I don't know, nobody's really bothered to go and confirm that even though somebody said that honestly might be the case. This annoys me too, and the cutting of the music and animation is kinda the opposite of what FUNi's going for with "uncut" here (even if their definition of "uncut" applies only to the content of the episodes themselves and nothing more).

So really, the singles are the best package so far, but the ugliness of them, both inside and out, prevents me from wanting them. So I suppose the only option left is the season sets. I mean, it's not that it's a bad release. The improvements made to the dub are extremely praiseworthy but removing the episode previews almost cancels it out. It really is two steps forward and one step back. But I suppose that DOES count as one step forward, so I'll probably end up getting the season sets because I really just want to see the damn show because I never have.

But really, this only makes me wish FUNi would not make these things such a damn compromise. Regardless of all the good things they've done here, I'm sick of having to compare like this. We shouldn't have to lose something to gain another. The whole thing just makes my head hurt.

...You've just pulled a Kunzait ( Minus the dub-bashing )

Saiyan · Post by **Saiyan** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:38 pm

Maybe the reason why they decided not to include the "Next episode..." is because they didn't feel like redubbing "On the next..JEEEEEEE TEEEEEE.."

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:05 pm

DBHighDefinition wrote:
...You've just pulled a Kunzait ( Minus the dub-bashing )

Yup, it's contagious.

The GT sets are a definite purchase for me. Hell-to-the-yes.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:05 pm

Who's to say they even did much of any redubbing for GT?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:08 pm

Tsukento wrote:Who's to say they even did much of any redubbing for GT?

I don't think anybody's really looked into it. Most of the discussion so far has been centered around the dubbed songs, eyecatchers, and missing previews. I've kinda been waiting for comparison shots and video samples, and stuff...

kusakun004 · Post by **kusakun004** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:03 pm

MagicBox wrote:And then there's an eyecatcher issue that might or might not have been on the old discs to begin with. I don't know, nobody's really bothered to go and confirm that even though somebody said that honestly might be the case. This annoys me too, and the cutting of the music and animation is kinda the opposite of what FUNi's going for with "uncut" here (even if their definition of "uncut" applies only to the content of the episodes themselves and nothing more).

I have all the old discs, and the eye-catchers are not cut down on the old discs. The only exception is the TV special, which they were totally cut out. Even I-channel cut out the first eye-catcher for every episode of GT. They only showed the second ones (the return from commercial break one).

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:05 pm

MagicBox wrote: So really, the singles are the best package so far, but the ugliness of them, both inside and out, prevents me from wanting them.

...Since when did the bricks win any beauty contests?

I mean, not to be particularly snarky, but I don't think my orange bricks are particularly "pretty". Economical in size, perhaps. But their packaging is easily the ugliest of anything on my shelf.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:17 pm

Herms wrote:No, you're thinking of the name "Lucifer" there. "Satan" appears in the Book of Job.

I know, I was just throwing out a goofy reply. I do find the whole "fallen angel Lucifer" concept to be amusing, given its origins, and Lucifier is sometimes believed to be the same as Satan so... ;p

Brakus wrote:But it's PAL, not NTSC. That's probably the primary reason why the Spain "remastered" DVDs use Dragon Box footage. And whose word are we trusting here?

Sources had stated the DVD's were mastered from DragonBox footage. I'm uncertain as to where it was stated, but it's here on the forum somewhere. I'm not going to dig for it, but I'm sure someone else can dig it up. If it was discredited, then I retract that statement.

And yes, I obviously know it was PAL. I said as much after all

Besides, if FUNimation's releases were such a reverse importation fear, why are they NTSC and Region 2 compatible? FUNimation only distributes in North America themselves (and sublicenses to other countries, which I believe are PAL to begin with).

That is of course not what I meant; after all, we have the Internet now, and FUNi could just e-mail/fax/courier whatever things are being done to the product to them. Toei (as with any other Japanese production company) needs to know what is being changed, and if they don't approve, they can't do it.

Unless you have some sort of basis for this line of thinking, I respectfully disagree.

Then how do you explain One Piece's releases the first time around by 4Kids?

First and foremost, let me say I know almost nothing of One Piece, as I've never watched or read it. I have read limited coverage about the change of hands regarding the licensing of the series, and seen some pictures. That's it. That being said, here's what I could ascertain from some brief research:

Toei licensed the series to 4Kids, who tried to make a kiddy-friendly version that bombed. They either stopped production or simply decided not to license additional episodes (the latter being the more popular theory from what I read quickly), and then Toei gave/sold the license to FUNimation.

Personally, I think this wasn't so much a matter of Toei going, "Oh my God! Our baby!" as "Money talks, and FUNimation has a better chance of making us that money."

Their changes were approved by the Japanese also.

4Kids paid for the license. And lack of disapproval is not proof of approval. Buying a license to an anime at $20k+ an episode just grants you a good deal of freedom.

Do you really think Toei/Shueisha/Fuji TV had prohibited 4Kids to make the changes to One Piece the first time around? FUNimation isn't immune to mistakes being made to the Japanese's product, you know.

I'm confused by this statement. Do I think Toei and co. prohibited 4Kids' actions? Well, of course not. It was done after all. I don't get the last sentence there though.

Yes, there's stuff in the contract that FUNi has to abide by. It's stuff that may not already be in the contract that they'd have to get approval for.

...I think you're missing the point of a contract. A contract, when well written, is supposed to be all inclusive and make things completely black and white. It prevents loopholes from being exploited and questions from being asked. What is it exactly that you think would not be in a contract for licensing an anime that would require direct approval from the licensor?

And think about it, if the Japanese didn't let FUNi do certain things with its product, they wouldn't be there in the first place.

Your stance is hard to identify. Your original post seems to imply that FUNimation (and other licensees) must seek a case-by-case approval of anything they do with a property, whereas this one sounds like you're arguing that the licensor must let the licensees do things. I'm confused.

But I'm still going to buy the DVDs, warts and all. As will others, I'm sure. The general public is not as exacting as most of the people here on this forum. Whatever reflection you have of the general public because of it is yours alone.

...oookay. I don't get the point of this either. I never insulted anyone, I simply said [FUNimation] made some dumb decisions. Like I said, none of it is deal-breaking.

BTW, sorry if I'm misunderstanding any of your post. I'm admittedly on painkillers for dental work and might have misread your points. Feel free to reply.

-Corey

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:29 pm

Just to reinsert this, Grey Ayres and Sonny Strait both confirmed Toei pushed for the One Piece edits.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:47 pm

Not to be rude, but why is the logo change such a big issue? It sounds like something only nerds would throw a fit over.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:48 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Not to be rude, but why is the logo change such a big issue? It sounds like something only nerds would throw a fit over.

You realize you're posting on a forum with some of the biggest nerds on the planet, right?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:49 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Not to be rude, but why is the logo change such a big issue? It sounds like something only nerds would throw a fit over.

I've known average people getting upset over logo changes.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:50 pm

Damn, this previews business is starting to annoy me now. That's the problem with coming to this site

. I'm pretty casual with regards to Dragonball, in the sense that it doesn't take much effort from Funimation or whoever to keep me happy, and I don't notice the technicalities that are brought to attention here. I'd never think about things like previews and eye-catchers and "faux-remastering" and "Hercule" on my own. But after reading a lot of posts I'm being forced to think about this stuff. At the end of the day I'll probably just get the Season set. I like the dub, and I need the original BGM. But when I do buy the set I'll do so a little begrudgingly now...

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:52 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:Not to be rude, but why is the logo change such a big issue? It sounds like something only nerds would throw a fit over.
You realize you're posting on a forum with some of the biggest nerds on the planet, right?

My bad. I know I really can't really call folks nerds since I cosplay and sang the Pokemon theme along a group of energetic hyperactive fangirls, butwas thinking more of bigger ones a la Comic-Book Guy.