Christmas blues :(

[Rena Rune]

I really don't see how I'm making an ass of myself when Rena took this business of this board and dragged it elsewhere.

I proved you wrong on this one. The thread was already about DaizEx, and you bought up the personal conflict by namedropping me. I pointed this out on the Funi forums. I pointed it out here, then you ignored it and said I had "issues".

All I've been doing is stating that this board is VegettoEX's property.

I explained why this isn't an excuse, and you ignored it.

It's his to do as he wishes. Whether or not it's "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant really.

If you're a fucking sociopath, yes. Under no other cirumstances is this true. If rules matter more to you than ethics, you're a sociopath. If you are a sociopath through your own "Intellectual" decision, then I have every right to judge you as a bad person. People who put law before fairness are dangerous.

If you don't agree with the rules that people have on their forum? Leave.

I also dealth with this point. There are a total of two communities that have this level of activity, from the looks of it. It's very easy not to like either one.

The reason I have no respect for you isn't that you disagree with me - it's that you NEVER quote little bits of my posts and deal with it point by point - you ignore EVERYTHING I say.

[Rena Rune]

I haven't even seriously followed any of this stuff since about page five of the Tenshinhan thread because... well, it's ridiculous. I stop to look at it now, and it's STILL ridiculous.

Rena, you have nothing you should be crying about. Every forum has its' own rules and standards. Frankly, I love DaizEX because it sets such high standards for things like on-topicness and spelling/grammar. Because while I'm a normally fun-loving guy, I have virtually no patience for wanton, 4chan-inspired, assholish stupidity. DaizEX is not ONLY a place where I can discuss my favorite manga/anime with other intelligent fans, it's also a safe haven from the rampant stupidity that most other slob-pits on the internet have.

I have my sometimes-heated disagreements with folks like Corey and Desire and GoC and whoever else on the boards every once in a while, but it doesn't really matter to me. Not only because "it's just a cartoon" (pardon the expression), but because I know that they're smart, respectable people, and we all know that whatever we're talking about isn't worth holding petty grudges over. OR, for that matter, labeling each other as "elitist" or "social retards" or what have you.

The rules are there to make it a better place. It's about DragonBall, so the forum is about DragonBall. Mike prefers to keep the place somewhat low-scale so he can moderate it himself. Hence, no "off-topic" sections because, like Mike told you already, such things tend to explode out of control. The focus on good grammar and stuff is to keep the discussions intelligent and legible. Everything has a good reason, and the rules are NOT going to be changed just because you're unhappy about them.

Honestly, do you see ANYONE else making this much of a fuss over this stuff? It IS Mike's board, he sets the rules, and they're GOOD rules. They keep out idiots. If you're an idiot or hate the rules, then go somewhere else.

But you've been told this by many people several times over already. If you're not going to listen, then I'll agree with Corey on this one, and ignore you until you decide to stop crying, or you get banned for causing trouble.

You know, you talk a lot about "Intelligent" fans yet you bring up points I already quoted and dealth with, without dealing with those replies.

That doesn't look very "intelligent" to me. It looks like you're just making the argument even more difficult than it already is.

The rules are not there to make this a better place. The rules are there to cater to drones and authoritarians such as yourself you cannot comprehend how to put on your socks without being given an instruction manual.

Seriously, nobody on this forum has any kind of qualification to be a leader, a rule maker, or anything resembling that. Given the kind of people that tend to be attracted to power, why on earth would the rules be genuine and sincerely for the better of the board? I'm sure people BELIEVE that, though.

I would not insult anyone unduely. I have reasons for calling people "elitists" and "social retards". I've explained them over 9000 times by now. You are however calling me immature without any good basis.

I'm the only one that makes this fuss because I'm a rare individual. Being in the minority doesn't make me wrong. Read up on some debating techniques.

[Rena Rune]

I think it's much more useful to try and dissect and debunk everything Rena says than reply with "if you don't like it, leave"; if there's potential for a legitimate issue, then why should she leave? What does that accomplish? Does that solve fundamental issues that may or may not exist in this community?

It seems that the ultimate solution would be for the person not liking how things go down here to go elsewhere as we'd rather not re-format the culture of this forum around one person's complaints.

Actually, on second thought, why format a forum around any one or any group of people's "complaints" or opinions anyway? Why not format a forum on what's logical, and fair?

By making some things taboo, saying they're "Not up for discussion", churning out the same crap over and over, you're discounting this as a possibility.

What if there is a way the forum could simply be overall better? Chances are YOU wouldn't come up with the idea - it would most likely be an outsider. Which is why your whole line of reasoning is wrong. Instead of saying "No we shouldn't change" and being a generally closed minded dick, why not just allow things to be questions, and actually deal with those "complaints" point by point?

"Complaints" and "Critical Thinking" go hand in hand. People who write off posts as "whining" are opponents of free, logical thinking.

That is critical thinking. Anything else is totalitarianism. No forum should be run on opinion. It should be run based on a consensus achieved through discussion. Everything sould be discussed, because that ensures the best decision possible, seeing it from all angles. Lazy and pushy admins don't like this. It's ironic how opposed you are to this given what a "forum" was originally for.

[Tweaker]

It's his to do as he wishes. Whether or not it's "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant really.

Wow, now this is a scary thought.

Okay--hypothetical situation. Imagine that Daizex, as it is, is the largest, most intelligent, and largely encompassing forum in relation to the Dragon Ball franchise. However, let's say he has an odd rule; this rule requires every member to have an avatar containing some form of child pornography.

Mind you, this is the Dragon Ball forum--if you follow this rule, you're likely to have the best possible experience you'll ever have with a forum of this calibur. If you abandon your moral objections to such a rule, you're bound to have an awesome time on the forums. But does that make the rule right? That's a subjective choice that, inevitably, only you can make.

If you feel like something doesn't align with your subjective views, don't you feel like it's worth fighting against? Isn't that rule, for all intents and purposes, wrong? He has the right to instill it--it's his forum, after all--but should he? Is it not an arbitrarily reasoned guidelines that is imposed upon you? Do you feel like you should be deprived of the best Dragon Ball community on the net because you don't want to do something that you have moral objections to?

Food for thought, really. It's an extreme comparison, admittedly, but the basic concepts can be interpreted the same.

[Kaboom]

The rules are not there to make this a better place. The rules are there to cater to drones and authoritarians such as yourself you cannot comprehend how to put on your socks without being given an instruction manual.

"Drones?" Not so. We agree with the rules because we think they make sense. When the Intro Boards were closed, for example, there was honest backlash. I've even criticized certain aspects of Mike's moderation methods before when I feel he deserves it.

The rules are there to keep this place classy, clean, and enjoyable for folks who like actually talking about DragonBall, as that is the focus of the board.

It has rules. Good rules. If you don't want to follow them, then there are other boards with far more lax rules that you can go to. No, not all of them are as active, popular, or informative, but that's the price you pay for wanting to have everyone coddle your ego. You ARE in the minority on this (non-)issue... shouldn't that be telling you something?

I'll gladly accept someone disagreeing with me every so often in exchange for knowing that person's IQ is higher than that of a small rodent. THAT'S why I love this board.

[Raki]

It's his to do as he wishes. Whether or not it's "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant really.

Wow, now this is a scary thought.

Okay--hypothetical situation. Imagine that Daizex, as it is, is the largest, most intelligent, and largely encompassing forum in relation to the Dragon Ball franchise. However, let's say he has an odd rule; this rule requires every member to have an avatar containing some form of child pornography.

That's wrong and illegal. I would not be a part of any forum that made a rule like that. But I was speaking in the context of what sections he doesn't want on this forum. We may think it's wrong that he doesn't want non-Dragonball discussions, but he owns and up keeps this board. Call it wrong on the grounds of content control, but it's not our call. A spade is a spade. Are Funimation and ADV wrong for not allowing talk of where and how to download fansubs on their official forums?

[Rena Rune]

"Drones?" Not so. We agree with the rules because we think they make sense. When the Intro Boards were closed, for example, there was honest backlash. I've even criticized certain aspects of Mike's moderation methods before when I feel he deserves it.

But it's also been stated I've been the only one this opposed to anything. So obviously you've never gone outside your comfort zone, and at the end of the day, such complaints probably only exist because of another set of rules you inhereted from another forum, or otherwise elswhere.

It has rules. Good rules.

You keep saying this, but you never prove it. How in fuck's name is the worldfilter a "good rules" anyway? If you're not a drone - you wouldn't post that they were "Good rules". You'd explain why the rules make sense, and it should speak for itself that they're "good".

Let me put it to you this way. If "Mike" used this board to post information on how to kidnap young children, would that be acceptable? It's HIS board after all. If you don't like it, go elsewhere!

[MisterFlashdude]

Hypothetical situation-

You're a guest in Mike's house. He asks you to take your shoes off at the door, so as not to track shit on to his nice clean floors.
You proceed to cause a shit storm because you believe all people have the right to wear their shoes where ever you'd like. The rest of his guests don't mind and ask you to either go along with it or get out.

Who's the real asshole here?

Seriously, though, I've only casually looked over the dozens of pages worth of bullshit that seem to surround and encompass everything Rena Runa seems to be say, so I feel like I'm really putting my neck in the guillotine here. But it's Mike's forum. See the name at the top of the page? It isn't "Dragonball for Everyone", it's "Daizenshuu EX". The forum for his site.

Please either learn to endure how things work here or leave. Either way, stop these shitstorm threads. I beg of you.

[VegettoEX]

Hey, Tweaker:

You raise some really good points, but I ultimately can't see anything beyond someone trying to be a troll, anymore. The attitudes and points are so inconsistent and variable that beyond answering a simple question where there are little-to-no further comments from said individual, it becomes impossible for anyone to actually communicate with them. We've tried so hard, but we get forced in to an ugly place when we're all called "cocks" and "pricks" and "autistic" and "sociopaths" (along with ludicrous comparisons to child kidnapping). What exactly do you expect in return, at that point?

Unfortunately, this isn't the place for Rena Rune. Whether it's that individual, or whether it's all of us... that isn't the point, and none of us have the qualification to make the proper judgment on it. It's really sad, and I like to think we all gave each other a fair chance... but if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. Sometimes people just don't mesh with each other, and it's unfair to try and live in an idealistic world where everyone on the internet is going to get along.

Can't we just cut our losses and move on? Do we really need all the histrionics, everyone?

I'm not banning anyone, and I'm not locking anything; I don't want to, and I don't think it's necessary. I'm simply asking that we all give each other the respect we deserve. That respect seems like it would be best served from a distance.

I know I haven't addressed every concern, but it seems impossible at this point.

[Kendamu]

EDIT: Screw it. Mike makes more sense.

[Rena Rune]

It's his to do as he wishes. Whether or not it's "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant really.

Wow, now this is a scary thought.

Okay--hypothetical situation. Imagine that Daizex, as it is, is the largest, most intelligent, and largely encompassing forum in relation to the Dragon Ball franchise. However, let's say he has an odd rule; this rule requires every member to have an avatar containing some form of child pornography.

That's wrong and illegal. I would not be a part of any forum that made a rule like that. But I was speaking in the context of what sections he doesn't want on this forum. We may think it's wrong that he doesn't want non-Dragonball discussions, but he owns and up keeps this board. Call it wrong on the grounds of content control, but it's not our call. A spade is a spade. Are Funimation and ADV wrong for not allowing talk of where and how to download fansubs on their official forums?

It's debatable. That's the point. EVERYTHING is debatable. By outright calling complaints childish and pathetic you're refusing this basic fact.

The one thing we can say for sure is that it's good to debate and for people to listen.

[Rena Rune]

Let me put it to you this way. If "Mike" used this board to post information on how to kidnap young children, would that be acceptable? It's HIS board after all. If you don't like it, go elsewhere!

Why such extreme examples? You're insulting our intelligence by doing this. These rules are good for the Dragonball forum that this is. If it were a kidnapping children forum, we wouldn't be here.

Just go away.

Nice dodge. It's his forum. Surely if it's HIS forum, and HE finds it to be relevant(have your very own cute Goku! Just abduct young children and stick tails on them), it should be acceptable?

If one behaviour is ethically questionable, then we can question others. That's the point. Stop using excuses like this isn't a kidnapping children forum. What if it was a Dragonball AND kidnapping children forum? Would it be okay as long as it says that's what it is?

To be honest you haven't demonstrated much intelligence to insult if you can't grasp this much.

[Kaboom]

Hypothetical situation-

You're a guest in Mike's house. He asks you to take your shoes off at the door, so as not to track shit on to his nice clean floors.
You proceed to cause a shit storm because you believe all people have the right to wear their shoes where ever you'd like. The rest of his guests don't mind and ask you to either go along with it or get out.

Who's the real asshole here?

This is the best example I've seen for this situation. Just because YOUR country, for example, has legalized heroin and prostitution or something doesn't mean you can go causing a fuss in another country because they don't do the same thing.

And to make another quote... "If you think you're not crazy, but every single other person is telling you that you are..."

[Kendamu]

Let me put it to you this way. If "Mike" used this board to post information on how to kidnap young children, would that be acceptable? It's HIS board after all. If you don't like it, go elsewhere!

Why such extreme examples? You're insulting our intelligence by doing this. These rules are good for the Dragonball forum that this is. If it were a kidnapping children forum, we wouldn't be here.

Just go away.

Nice dodge. It's his forum. Surely if it's HIS forum, and HE finds it to be relevant(have your very own cute Goku! Just abduct young children and stick tails on them), it should be acceptable?

If one behaviour is ethically questionable, then we can question others. That's the point. Stop using excuses like this isn't a kidnapping children forum. What if it was a Dragonball AND kidnapping children forum? Would it be okay as long as it says that's what it is?

To be honest you haven't demonstrated much intelligence to insult if you can't grasp this much.

Y'know. I edited that post because it really didn't apply after Mike's post, but if you really wanna throw down...

Thank you for conveniently side-stepping logic to be a troll. I'm glad you're having such a great time putting yourself in a horrible light amongst the people of this forum because you can't tell the difference between a forum about a comic book originally made for children and a forum about kidnapping children.

Once you can differentiate between illegal activity and reading comics, I'll be willing to discuss this further. Please don't take this down a road where you'll be banned.

Thank you.

[Rena Rune]

Hypothetical situation-

You're a guest in Mike's house. He asks you to take your shoes off at the door, so as not to track shit on to his nice clean floors.
You proceed to cause a shit storm because you believe all people have the right to wear their shoes where ever you'd like. The rest of his guests don't mind and ask you to either go along with it or get out.

Who's the real asshole here?

This is the best example I've seen for this situation. Just because YOUR country, for example, has legalized heroin and prostitution or something doesn't mean you can go causing a fuss in another country because they don't do the same thing.

And to make another quote... "If you think you're not crazy, but every single other person is telling you that you are..."

No it isn't. The "house" metaphor is fucking terrible. For it to work, you'd have to have house parties every night, post your address publically, not actually LIVE in your house, just go there now again to boss people around because you own the place even though everyone there is homeless and there's one one other house on the street, and also the house would be unable to keep itself together without people going to it in the first place, just like a forum dies if it has few members.

If someone did that in real life, would you sympathise with them if they complain people are getting a bit loud?

Use your head for once. Come on, you're not THAT bad surely. This is my problem, as soon as I debuk anything you say, you just ignore it and repeat some other point ad nauseum. I might as well just post gibberish.

[Kaboom]

No it isn't. The "house" metaphor is fucking terrible.

You call that one terrible, yet you're making comparisons involving kidnapping?

Fine, you want a better comparison? Then the board is like a workplace. Everyone there has some contribution to make, and they can enjoy themselves doing so, but there's still policies and rules to be upheld, as well as penalties that come with not doing so. Naturally, there has to be someone around to make sure that happens.

[Rena Rune]

Just because YOUR country, for example, has legalized heroin and prostitution or something doesn't mean you can go causing a fuss in another country because they don't do the same thing.

Gee yeah people should just never question the ethics of other countries, ever. Everything's better when nobody questions anything.

Thank you for conveniently side-stepping logic to be a troll. I'm glad you're having such a great time putting yourself in a horrible light amongst the people of this forum because you can't tell the difference between a forum about a comic book originally made for children and a forum about kidnapping children.

Once you can differentiate between illegal activity and reading comics, I'll be willing to discuss this further. Please don't take this down a road where you'll be banned.

This is bullshit and you know it. Is it wrong for an admin of a forum to use his PRIVATE PROPERTY to talk about abducting children? If so, then acting like a jerk and making dumfuck rules even if you're an admin also falls under question. You're a goddamn slimeball if you try to dodge this again.

It doesn't matter if they're completely different things. The fact is that the admins infallibility is broken if they can do ANYTHING wrong. Once they can do ONE thing wrong, we can question other things.

That's why it matters. I'm using an extreme example under the hope that you'd be guilted into not acting like a total slimeball and ignoring my point.

Do you understand this? Copy and paste anything you find morally objectional, and imagine an admin using his site for it. Or anything illegal - since legality is subjective anyway to an extent.

Again, you're going to ignore my reasoning, and continue to act like you're in the right when you're some of the goddamn worst debaters on the planet. None of you even approach being reasonable human beings. A reasonable human being does not continue to demonise someone while ignoring their defense. You find that offensive? Then damn well prove me wrong intead of getting offended at it.

[Raki]

If anybody has a forum about kidnapping children, they would be locked up and jailed. Kidnapping another human being is wrong on all counts. Period. You CAN'T compare the kidnapping of person to not allowing an Off Topic section to a forum.

[Kaboom]

What, exactly, is so oppressive or morally defunct here?

A word filter? A lack of an off-topic section?

Really?

Now we're getting called "drones" and "slimeballs" and not "not even approaching being reasonable human beings?"

[Kendamu]

This is bullshit and you know it. Is it wrong for an admin of a forum to use his PRIVATE PROPERTY to talk about abducting children? If so, then acting like a jerk and making dumfuck rules even if you're an admin also falls under question. You're a goddamn slimeball if you try to dodge this again.

It doesn't matter if they're completely different things. The fact is that the admins infallibility is broken if they can do ANYTHING wrong. Once they can do ONE thing wrong, we can question other things.

That's why it matters. I'm using an extreme example under the hope that you'd be guilted into not acting like a total slimeball and ignoring my point.

Do you understand this? Copy and paste anything you find morally objectional, and imagine an admin using his site for it. Or anything illegal - since legality is subjective anyway to an extent.

Again, you're going to ignore my reasoning, and continue to act like you're in the right when you're some of the goddamn worst debaters on the planet. None of you even approach being reasonable human beings. A reasonable human being does not continue to demonise someone while ignoring their defense. You find that offensive? Then damn well prove me wrong intead of getting offended at it.

All I can do is repeat my point. This isn't a forum about kidnapping. If it were, I wouldn't be here. I'd report the forum to law enforcement. Mike makes the rules for this forum and I agreed to them upon joining. However, that does not put Mike above the law and I would certainly report him to law enforcement if he were kidnapping children. That's why your example doesn't apply. Kidnapping children is a completely different matter.

Create an example that's more suitable to the subjects we discuss here and we can discuss this further.