Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:09 pm

While I agree the movie is probably a cash in, I don't think they are intentionally making it bad. That would just be stupid. Dumb ass producers might want things a certain way that could be perceived as bad, but not by them. I am sure that James Wong and his team did the best they could do with what they had. We should be tankful the movie got delayed, who knows what it might have been like if they shipped it out in August.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:10 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:Dang, while I know there's no way any discussion of the live action movie can be peaceful, I didn't expect it to be this ugly.

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Let me seriously ask you, do you think that these decisions on the movie were made in the interest of making a GOOD movie? Scratch that, do you think this movie was even conceived in the interest of making a good movie? Probably not. The creators were out to make a quick buck off the superhero hype and martial arts revival going on.

People can say all they want about how the changes don't really matter and how everyone is going to go see it anyway, but I don't think we should be fooling ourselves into believing we're going to get any more than a mediocre (if that) teen action flick.

Right now in my personal opinion, based on the information we have and completely disregarding whether it is a proper adaptation of Dragonball, I would call this a lame movie. Some of you might find this cookie cutter premise appealing, but I don't think the rest of us should be considered stuck-up for not finding it entertaining in the slightest.

AND I am equally tired of people like Rena Rune pointing out every little thing that has been changed from the original. Of course things are going to be changed! It's a movie, not a manga. Not everything in the original is essential to making this film good, it's simply a matter of changing what doesn't work in a live action context and keeping what really matters. Of course, "what REALLY matters" is what this debate is actually about and a tough call to make considering how subjective it is.

Sorry to keep arguing, but it doesn't seem like the original topic of conversation is even applicable any more.

Fucking nicely said.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:11 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:Dang, while I know there's no way any discussion of the live action movie can be peaceful, I didn't expect it to be this ugly.

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Let me seriously ask you, do you think that these decisions on the movie were made in the interest of making a GOOD movie? Scratch that, do you think this movie was even conceived in the interest of making a good movie? Probably not. The creators were out to make a quick buck off the superhero hype and martial arts revival going on.

People can say all they want about how the changes don't really matter and how everyone is going to go see it anyway, but I don't think we should be fooling ourselves into believing we're going to get any more than a mediocre (if that) teen action flick.

Right now in my personal opinion, based on the information we have and completely disregarding whether it is a proper adaptation of Dragonball, I would call this a lame movie. Some of you might find this cookie cutter premise appealing, but I don't think the rest of us should be considered stuck-up for not finding it entertaining in the slightest.

AND I am equally tired of people like Rena Rune pointing out every little thing that has been changed from the original. Of course things are going to be changed! It's a movie, not a manga. Not everything in the original is essential to making this film good, it's simply a matter of changing what doesn't work in a live action context and keeping what really matters. Of course, "what REALLY matters" is what this debate is actually about and a tough call to make considering how subjective it is.

Sorry to keep arguing, but it doesn't seem like the original topic of conversation is even applicable any more.

This is how I feel too. But I don't see what's wrong with me pointing out what's being changed - he was pointing out what was similar, so I was countering it. I don't see the issue there, and I think OF COURSE a load of things are going to be changed, is kind of excusing them a bit.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12 pm

omegacwa wrote:While I agree the movie is probably a cash in, I don't think they are intentionally making it bad. That would just be stupid. Dumb ass producers might want things a certain way that could be perceived as bad, but not by them. I am sure that James Wong and his team did the best they could do with what they had. We should be tankful the movie got delayed, who knows what it might have been like if they shipped it out in August.

Dragon Ball is one of the hardest anime you can turn into a LAM. Partially because it has such a large fanbase. Partially because it is the most cartoony cartoon ever.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:14 pm

I don't think any director wants to make bad movies, except maybe Uwe Bowl, or Joel Shumacher.

James Wong is a decent Director/Writer. He wrote one of my favorite X-Files episodes. The One isn't great, but it certainly isn't terrible.

I will take James Wong over Uwe Bowl, Paul W.S. Anderson, or Joel Schumacher any day.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:17 pm

I'm positive this movie will be better than Spider-Man, The Forbidden Kingdom, Ghost Rider, Dare Devil, and Fantastic 4. Hell I guarantee it'll be better than Street Fighter and any of the Resident Evil movies.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:22 pm

Turning Dragonball into a live action film isn't at all as hard as people conceive it to be imo.

There are three routes to go from:

- Direct effing adaptation. Keep the humour, stuff in some iconic dialogue and situations, Bam; with minimal alterations made the pacing and order of events in order to meet the time constraints. Resulting in a 'badass campyness' execution of a film.

- Dial the humour to a bare minimum, emphasize on the serious and dark aspects of the series and it's characters without alienating the educated fans. Execute accordingly.

- Alter the storyline and characters enough without taking away entirely from the original derivation to meet the mainstream audience's expectations. Keep it cliche, play it safe, make a quick buck.

Unfortunately the studio and team behind the film decided to play it safe, resulting in a (most likely) throw-away popcorn flick.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:25 pm

In the end, I just step back and remind myself that even with how much I like DragonBall the whole thing is a goofy, lighthearted cartoon about super-powered monkey people fighting demons and aliens and whatnot. It really doesn't bother me that in the live-action movie adaptation, the lead monkey might act a little different than his series counterpart. Same concept applies to most adaptations of things I like. As a result, I end up liking a lot of things.

But I understand if that kind of thinking isn't really commonplace. I've always been an unusually laid-back person when it comes to these sort of things.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:25 pm

Snail wrote:Unfortunately the studio and team behind the film decided to play it safe, resulting in a (most likely) throw-away popcorn flick.

That's the only reason I hope they're able to make a sequel. If this first movie is a success I'm sure they'll do ALL that stuff you listed. They'll take more chances. If there's ever a "Dragon Ball 2" it'll be a completely different style of movie compared to Evolution. Kinda like the difference between the first Batman and Batman Returns or The first Matrix and Reloaded.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:28 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:In the end, I just step back and remind myself that even with how much I like DragonBall the whole thing is a goofy, lighthearted cartoon about super-powered monkey people fighting demons and aliens and whatnot. It really doesn't bother me that in the live-action movie adaptation, the lead monkey might act a little different than his series counterpart. I've always been a pretty laid-back person when it comes to these sort of things though.

Am I allowed to agree with this? No seriously, can I think that this is the mentality one should have when walking into the movie theater or does that just make me a "postive fan boy"?

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:33 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:In the end, I just step back and remind myself that even with how much I like DragonBall the whole thing is a goofy, lighthearted cartoon about super-powered monkey people fighting demons and aliens and whatnot. It really doesn't bother me that in the live-action movie adaptation, the lead monkey might act a little different than his series counterpart. I've always been a pretty laid-back person when it comes to these sort of things though.
Am I allowed to agree with this? No seriously, can I think that this is the mentality one should have when walking into the movie theater or does that just make me a "postive fan boy"?

No, it means you're not a true fan.

But I'm with you on this. Yes, I would certainly have preferred they had kept the characters closer, but if at the end of the day, we end up with a fun way to pass 90 minutes, then I won't be joining the masses to burn down Fox Studios.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:17 pm

Kingdom Heartless wrote:But I'm with you on this. Yes, I would certainly have preferred they had kept the characters closer, but if at the end of the day, we end up with a fun way to pass 90 minutes, then I won't be joining the masses to burn down Fox Studios.

This. I'm not insulting people. I'm not telling them they can't think the movie is going to suck eggs. I only joined in to defend people's rights to their opinion.

The anime and manga are fine how they are. There's no way a live action movie can make it better, so from my point of view, a live action movie is unnecessary for any reason other than making money and maybe being entertaining. As such, I don't care how different it is. I've already enjoyed the stories many times in it's other forms. So long as this movie entertains me in it's own way, that's all that matters. Whether it does or not is yet to be seen.

Sorry if I don't throw fits over the precious characters being changed for no reason, but I'm really, really just not bothered. I don't think that makes me or anyone else who thinks the same an idiot. I don't think we're being tricked into liking something we shouldn't. Hell, I really don't even know that we'll like it yet.

I'm not even trying to defend the movie's right to be different, really. I'm just defending our right to be fans of Dragon Ball and at the same time not care how inaccurate or butchered a movie version is, because it's not like we really need a movie version to continue enjoying the story anyway.

Rene made one good point. If there are fans who don't care if it's different either way and fans who do care if it's different, then why make it so different? Well, I don't know. I'm not defending the stupid choices of Hollywood either. They do make dumb, pointless moves. No disagreement from me there. It doesn't stop me being interested in the latest news about the movie, it won't stop me seeing it and so long as it entertains me for a couple of hours, that's all that matters to me.

So, is that everything? Do I make sense now?

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:40 pm

Since this is now "live-action movie general discussion thread"...

www.dragonballthemovie.com

There. Official site up. It's pretty boring. Just the trailer.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:46 pm

JAPPO wrote:Since this is now "live-action movie general discussion thread"...

www.dragonballthemovie.com

There. Official site up. It's pretty boring. Just the trailer.

Ooh, I love the "DragonBall" part of the banner. Very gnarly, if I may say so.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:46 pm

JAPPO wrote:Since this is now "live-action movie general discussion thread"...

www.dragonballthemovie.com

There. Official site up. It's pretty boring. Just the trailer.

I got redirected to www.foxmovies.com.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:47 pm

Bussani wrote:
Kingdom Heartless wrote:But I'm with you on this. Yes, I would certainly have preferred they had kept the characters closer, but if at the end of the day, we end up with a fun way to pass 90 minutes, then I won't be joining the masses to burn down Fox Studios.
This. I'm not insulting people. I'm not telling them they can't think the movie is going to suck eggs. I only joined in to defend people's rights to their opinion.

The anime and manga are fine how they are. There's no way a live action movie can make it better, so from my point of view, a live action movie is unnecessary for any reason other than making money and maybe being entertaining. As such, I don't care how different it is. I've already enjoyed the stories many times in it's other forms. So long as this movie entertains me in it's own way, that's all that matters. Whether it does or not is yet to be seen.

Sorry if I don't throw fits over the precious characters being changed for no reason, but I'm really, really just not bothered. I don't think that makes me or anyone else who thinks the same an idiot. I don't think we're being tricked into liking something we shouldn't. Hell, I really don't even know that we'll like it yet.

I'm not even trying to defend the movie's right to be different, really. I'm just defending our right to be fans of Dragon Ball and at the same time not care how inaccurate or butchered a movie version is, because it's not like we really need a movie version to continue enjoying the story anyway.

Rene made one good point. If there are fans who don't care if it's different either way and fans who do care if it's different, then why make it so different? Well, I don't know. I'm not defending the stupid choices of Hollywood either. They do make dumb, pointless moves. No disagreement from me there. It doesn't stop me being interested in the latest news about the movie, it won't stop me seeing it and so long as it entertains me for a couple of hours, that's all that matters to me.

So, is that everything? Do I make sense now?

Sure, I can't argue with that. The movie people have their mouths to feed undoubtedly. While it's bothersome for me, I don't really fault them for making it, I'd just be hella confused if fans actually expected something of merit or a worthwhile addition to the fandom.

What I'm reading from most people in favor at this point though is that you just don't care and would probably see it even if it wasn't about Dragonball. I'm kinda lost. Are we in agreement now that we are not getting a good movie adaption of Dragonball? Because that's kinda the whole point of the counter argument... Not attacking people as fans for not caring.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:58 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:I'm kinda lost. Are we in agreement now that we are not getting a good movie adaption of Dragonball? Because that's kinda the whole point of the counter argument... Not attacking people as fans for not caring.

Well, I think it's a good adaption in that it has the basic parts and story (boy called Goku, trained by his grandpa, goes looking for dragon balls. Girl called Bulma goes with him. Demon King Piccolo blows stuff up), but that's about it. I think any hope of it being a semi-direct adaption went out of the window when a live action movie was even announced, to be honest. Some people don't think that the bare bones of Dragon Ball are enough for it to be considered a Dragon Ball movie, others do. It's just a difference in opinion, it doesn't make either side stupid.

But yeah, I only joined in with my opinion when people were starting to insult people for not agreeing with their point of view. And what did I get for that? Told I didn't belong in this thread because I couldn't 'debate properly'.

Oy..

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:01 pm

Hey, I can agree that it seems like a terrible adaption.

But it also looks like the kind of movie I would enjoy even if it was called Dragon Hero or something. Being one that enjoys the Star Wars prequels, Indy 4, Die Hard 4 and have Terminator Salvation as my most anticipated movie of the year, I'm really not one to get into the whole "they raped the franchise!" thing. And hell, even if it is great and I buy the DVD, I doubt I'll even include it in my Dragon Ball collection, because I see it completely seperated from it.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 pm

Kingdom Heartless wrote:Hey, I can agree that it seems like a terrible adaption.

But it also looks like the kind of movie I would enjoy even if it was called Dragon Hero or something. Being one that enjoys the Star Wars prequels, Indy 4, Die Hard 4 and have Terminator Salvation as my most anticipated movie of the year, I'm really not one to get into the whole "they raped the franchise!" thing. And hell, even if it is great and I buy the DVD, I doubt I'll even include it in my Dragon Ball collection, because I see it completely seperated from it.

I'd include it in the collection in a kind of ironic or quirky way. Same with that old live action thing that was just as vaguely (if not more) based on it or those messed up bootleg figures Oldphan showed us.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:09 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
JAPPO wrote:Since this is now "live-action movie general discussion thread"...

www.dragonballthemovie.com

There. Official site up. It's pretty boring. Just the trailer.
Ooh, I love the "DragonBall" part of the banner. Very gnarly, if I may say so.

About time, FOX! ^^;
There's less than 3 months to go.

I'm not sure how I feel about the logo being trapped in capslock, but its definitely of a higher quality than the previous logo.

I'm betting this is the logo they came up with after they decided to tack on "evolution" to it, as the previous one has said word in a totally different front than what they used for Dragon Ball.

Good on them for using blue and orange though.