Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

[JAPPO]

Honestly I don't think the movie will make more than 30 million or so opening weekend in the U.S., but that doesn't matter. It'll first open in Japan to decent numbers and make a very profitable amount worldwide.

DVD sales will be very good. DVD sales account for 40-50% of total profit. Overall it'll be a profitable movie and make enough for a sequel.

[Rena Rune]

You pulled the very same card yourself in this very same thread on me earlier, that's why I said it..... you must've forgotten that you did in your hypocrisy filled tirade.

I love how you bash the other dude for making snarky comments like this, but it's okay for you to do it. Irony.

Can you point out where I did this? Quite simply put my posts are far too long for it to be a case of me simply dismissing them because I disagree with them. There's obviously some other reasoning in there you're ignoring, unless it was all Bel-air copypasta.

[JAPPO]

A comment on my site:

hey people i know everyone thinks that the attack roshi uses is the mafuba; at first i thought the same thing because it was green but then i remember that in the tournament when roshi was fighting goku; that when goku is transforming into the ape; roshi uses an attack that was kind of electric if i remember well; i forgot how that attack was call but when i saw the scene maybe is roshi doing that attack to goku to stop the transformation; guys give me your opinion.

He might be right.

[Chrono Trigger]

I think he's just using a generic Ki attack to fight something/someone.

[SSJ2bardock]

You pulled the very same card yourself in this very same thread on me earlier, that's why I said it..... you must've forgotten that you did in your hypocrisy filled tirade.

I love how you bash the other dude for making snarky comments like this, but it's okay for you to do it. Irony.

Where in my post did it say "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"? Go ahead, read it.

Can you point out where I did this?

Well I already did in my last post, so I find this to be a little redundant, but I'll quote it again just for the hell of it.

I'm not going to let deviations from the source ruin my enjoyment of a potentially fun adventure/martial arts film that is a loose adaptation of a franchise I enjoy.

Probably one of the best posts I've ever seen in my time here.

Because you agree with it.

copy-pasta

You seriously just used the phrase "copy pasta" in an argument, that's really helping your case...... no wait, actually it totally nullified any coherent points you may have had.


I'm just going to be ignoring you from now on because you're clearly just here to try to get a rise out of people. So now you'll make your heated rebuttal, I'm sure, and attempt to inflate your ego again but after that just drop it.

[Shenron]

Honestly I don't think the movie will make more than 30 million or so opening weekend in the U.S., but that doesn't matter. It'll first open in Japan to decent numbers and make a very profitable amount worldwide.

DVD sales will be very good. DVD sales account for 40-50% of total profit. Overall it'll be a profitable movie and make enough for a sequel.

You seem to be very optimistic and categoric, Jappo. Especially about the worldwide results.

[The Time Traveller]

A comment on my site:

hey people i know everyone thinks that the attack roshi uses is the mafuba; at first i thought the same thing because it was green but then i remember that in the tournament when roshi was fighting goku; that when goku is transforming into the ape; roshi uses an attack that was kind of electric if i remember well; i forgot how that attack was call but when i saw the scene maybe is roshi doing that attack to goku to stop the transformation; guys give me your opinion.

He might be right.

Bankoku Bikkuri Sho?

I don't think so, maybe if they redid the effects, I still think it's Mafuba.

[omegacwa]

I found some more good rebuttals to common arguments of crappy movies.


I've "toned down" some of the comments.

5. "Why do you review things you hate? If you don't like it, ignore it."

Why do I review crap? Simple: for pleasure. For the sheer joy of it. Every piece of crap you like is an immense world of delight waiting to be explored. Crap is a driving force, crap is inspirational: nothing urges me to set things right more than seeing them done wrong. I'm especially pleased when the crap is so bad it makes me angry — for anger is a pleasant sensation. To feel your bile rise and your blood boil, to feel a rush of fury — why, it's the pleasure of being alive, of feeling some actual emotion instead of the constant dull fuzz of the easily contented.

Why should I deny myself such pleasures? You preach abstinence, but that's because you're a Puritan. When you look at criticism, you see only whines and complaints; you fail to see the joy. Energy is eternal delight (as they say where I come from), and to damn something with energy is a more joyous and thrilling act than to ignore it, or say "it's nice", or fob it off with other half-hearted compliments.

6. "Art is subjective. If I like it, it's good. It's all a matter of opinion."

Yes, and your opinion isn't worth crap. In spite of the morass of subjectivity you'd drag us into, there are such things as artistic standards — common standards, shared among certain groups of people, people who know what they're talking about, people who express themselves better than others. Better according to whom? According to me. (It's all subjective, remember?) Objective standards might not exist in the realm of art, but these inter-subjective standards fulfil their role quite adequately. And they still allow plenty of room for argument and opinion.

In any case, your comment is made in bad faith. You've come in the level-headed guise of one advocating reason and common sense, but in truth your only aim is to justify your own juvenile opinions. "If I like it, it's good" is an excuse never to confront the flaws in the things you like, never to question your opinions, for fear you've built your fanboy life on piss-weak foundations.

7. "Some people like it, some don't. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. THERE ARE GOOD THINGS AND BAD THINGS ABOUT EVERYTHING. END OF STORY. I wish everyone would shut up!"

Yes, no one should ever express an opinion about anything, much less contrary opinions, you stupid arse. You've stepped into the middle of a argument like some grandstanding politico, trying save the day, putting the argument to rest with some shouted platitudes. You probably think you are quite the shotgun diplomat, but your act convinces no one. For under your performance, as plain as day, is a grieving, wounded fanboy, whining about the nasty people saying nasty things about what he likes. You never pipe up like this when you see wall-to-wall gush, which is all you want to see.

10. "You need to balance your opinion. Mention the good points as well as the bad."

Wrong. Something clearly messed up during your aesthetic development, and you've emerged with a country schoolmarm's ideal of beauty and proportion. Not to worry, I'll explain again slowly. There is no artistic imperative to balance one's criticism. The only motivation for "balance" is the opposite of art: politeness, courtesy towards the artist and his fans. Such courtesy is an offence against self-expression, calling on the critic to compromise himself so as to appease the proprieties and sensibilities of a few fanboys, who are all idiots anyway. The "balanced" critic is inevitably writing in chains, restricted to a formula: his reviews reek of insincerity and hackery, showing the severe strains of digging for faint praise.

This one a thousand times:

12. "You take things too seriously... lighten up. It's just entertainment...."

Your main problem, I suspect, is not that I take things too seriously — after all, you have no idea how much or little time I spend on this — but that I take them seriously at all. What you find offensive is that I consider the crap you like to be a subject of some importance and interest, that I apply certain critical standards to it, that I look at it in a context slightly wider than your lifetime's collection of navel lint....

In which case, you're damned right I take things seriously, you slack-jawed waste of space. Let me tell you a secret: the only people who ever did anything good, did it seriously. In particular, the only people who were ever entertaining took their entertainment seriously. The best comedians are always dead serious about comedy, studying it in depth, constantly exploring comic ideas, tirelessly working to improve their art — in fact, only serious people are ever funny. The real humourless bores are the slackers, the laid-back, the shallow, the trivial: people who spend their lives on their arses, sucking candy, swallowing the shit that's fed to them.

Serious people take an active interest and joy in the world; they participate in it, they strive to improve it, through their actions, through their art, through their presence. When serious people do things, they try to do them well; they don't settle for mediocrity in themselves, or in others. Unserious people — people like you — are the opposite: they settle for ignorance, they're content with crap, they're happy to be second-rate, and get second-rate treatment in return. Serious people make a serious contribution to the world, while you and other slackers contribute nothing but an ever-rising pile of human effluent.

You know, I might even enjoy Dragonball as a cheesy mystical Kung Fu flick. It doesn't change the fact that it's approach to the characters is wrong, and the arguments defending it are retarded.

This is quite possibly the worst post I have read on here. It is the biggest, most disrespectful post ever.

Seriously, no one on here agrees with you anymore (At least I haven't seen anyone). You are coming off like a total asshole. Those comments you posted above are so pig headed it's disgusting.

[Rocketman]

His/her arguments sound fine to me.

[omegacwa]

Thanks Rocketman, you are very helpful.

[VegettoEX]

Rena, I don't exactly know what about or exactly why I like or dislike certain color schemes for painting our new bedroom. I certainly know what I dislike when I see it, but even when I can't fully articulate what it is about that color scheme that I don't like, my feeling(s) remain the same. No-one can take that away from me. Those feelings may change over time, but if something makes me uncomfortable or simply doesn't appeal to me, them's the breaks. The exact same is true with the opposite, as well. I can't always tell what it is about a color scheme that I do like, but I know when I like it.

I really love alternate takes on a story. I really do. Especially for older properties, I think it's a great way to try and breath some new life into something that's already been experienced as-is. You're right in that we don't have to like it, and there are probably qualities about it (due inherently to the fact that almost every remake is driven by profit desires; not that the originals aren't...) that should make us question and second-guess its purpose. That doesn't mean it can't be a fun romp for what it is, and anyone's allowed to hold their own thoughts on it... look forward to it, think it'll be good, think it'll be bad, read into certain aspects one way, read into certain aspects another way, etc. In my particular case, I don't see aspects of this upcoming live-action movie that appeal to what I am looking for. Other people? They do. That's fine. I certainly can't blame them for that when Mortal Kombat is one of my favorite movies of all time.

I totally agree with a lot of your points about being able to fully and freely express disgust, disappointment, or even amusement and love for something. We do it all the time here. That being said, there's a huge difference between that and essentially telling someone their innate feelings are "wrong" because they are different from your own, which is exactly how it appears everyone's been reading your posts.

Your backups numbered five through twelve are confusing because it's impossible to tell exactly which side you are. I can read it both ways. Furthermore, I can easily turn them right back on you with plenty of your previous arguments regarding FUNimation and their English dub ("they're content with crap, they're happy to be second-rate, and get second-rate treatment in return"), and they're all raving, holier-than-thou retorts. These follow along perfectly with your profanity and hate-fueled responses since your registration.

You've moved on from your "I'm the abused!" shtick to your "I can prove you all wrong with logic!" shtick. Clearly none of them are working, because as soon as someone pokes a hole in one, you moved on to the next one, complemented by a variety of phrases demanding that people somehow have brutal sexual intercourse with themselves.

On and on we hear from you about "the real world" and how these logical fallacies would never fly in real arguments, and how no-one here can be taken seriously without said perfect display of coherent logical articulation. You know what? You're absolutely right.

No-one in "the real world" is going to take you seriously when you call them a "USELESS FUCKING SHITHEAD" that is "incapable of understanding". You know what that will get you?

Fired, and slapped with a harassment lawsuit, strawman claims be damned.

With the exception of a couple really awesome thread starts with some good questions, every single outburst has been a continuous flow of hypocritical hate (we're the group of elitist weeaboos, despite your usage of the word "shinigami" instead of what it means in English, your constant references to 4chan, and Japanese-style emoticons in the chat). We're not asking you be perfect, to never slip-up, to never contradict yourself, and to never get upset. Really. None of us are. We're all asshats at one time or another. But you're not holding yourself up to the same standards you expect of everyone else, and it's gotten rather ridiculous.

You're the single identifiable factor in discussion breakdowns as-of-late, and you take no accountability for it. Two wrongs don't make a right, and if you're going to continue your crusade against this forum and its members, I expect that you will treat your supposed inferiors with the same respect that I'm demanding they treat you with in return. This cannot continue.

[omegacwa]

Thank You MIKE!

That's what I have been trying to say this whole time. You articulated it just the way I would have wanted to.

[JAPPO]

Thank You MIKE!

That's what I have been trying to say this whole time. You articulated it just the way I would have wanted to.

Yes it was a very good post.

I actually saw Mortal Kombat just recently and it was pretty damn awesome in a "this is so bad it's good" kind of way.

[Chrono Trigger]

I wouldn't even say it's bad. For taking a fighting game and turning it into a movie they did a good job. I wish Evolution was adapted that well.

[omegacwa]

I wouldn't even say it's bad. For taking a fighting game and turning it into a movie they did a good job. I wish Evolution was adapted that well.

We still don't know how well the movie is going to be adapted. Visual style aside, the main story, out side of the highschool part, could be good.

Anyway, off course Mortal Kombat was good, they straight up ripped off, and admitted to doing so, Enter the Dragon.

[Rena Rune]

You pulled the very same card yourself in this very same thread on me earlier, that's why I said it..... you must've forgotten that you did in your hypocrisy filled tirade.

I love how you bash the other dude for making snarky comments like this, but it's okay for you to do it. Irony.

Where in my post did it say "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"? Go ahead, read it.

You DID say "Hypocrisy filled tirade", which is purposely over dramatic and a heck of a lot more insulting that "shut the fuck up".

Can you point out where I did this?

Well I already did in my last post, so I find this to be a little redundant, but I'll quote it again just for the hell of it.

I'm not going to let deviations from the source ruin my enjoyment of a potentially fun adventure/martial arts film that is a loose adaptation of a franchise I enjoy.

Probably one of the best posts I've ever seen in my time here.

Because you agree with it.

Hey now, I do admit I missed the quote under your post, but you took it out of context. The difference is I went on to say something AFTER that explaining why. It's unfair that you're purposely cutting it off. I'm not saying it's never down to agreement or disagreement, just a lot less often than people think.

It sounds like I'm getting off on technicality, but read what I said here -

No, they're stupid for the reasons I stated. People who are genuinely extremely poor at debating always pull the "Because you don't agree with it" card.

What I meant was dismissing someone's opinion entirely down to the idea that they don't agree with it, and not backing it up. That IS a mark of extremely poor debating.

This is what I did:

Because you agree with it. If someone made a very coherent, excellently reasoned point you didn't quite agree with, you wouldn't say it's one of the best posts. There is nothing well structured about SGK's comment, it's just a basic statement.

This is what you did:

The arguments are retarded why exactly? Because you don't agree with them right? Do you think you're some kind of debate master who can do no wrong because you really aren't. The only thing you've accomplished in this ginormous debacle that you started is making yourself look like a troll.

I mean look at this. This is just shit flinging. YOU THINK YOU'RE SO GREAT BUT REALLY YOU'RE NOT. What kind of childish crap is this, seriously? I thought it was obvious there's a difference between making the issue of agreement as a genuine point, how is your post the same as mine? After the first statement, I went onto to make an observation based on his post. Granted it was not an entire argument or explanation in there, but it was the beginning of one. What part of a mature argument contains "Do you think you're some kind of debate master who can do no wrong because you really aren't."? Come on, that's bullshit. Anyone can accuse anyone of having an overflated sense of self worth here. Everyone in an argument is trying to win, trying to show their argument to be better than others.

Besides how does one "Hypocrisy" constitute a "Hypocrisy filled tirade"? You're being insulting. It's easy to contradict yourself on occasion, that's different from the entire argument being one. I see how you may have made a mistake here, but it doesn't excuse the fact that you're not actually making any points at all. The fact that you get so angry at me for making an apparent mistake when you're just shitflinging, is pretty goddamn smarmy.

Making a genuine comparison to Nazi-ism is not the same as pulling "The Hitler Card" for example.

It's just shameful debating on your part. I pointed out quite clearly that the statement in of itself was a statement, not a rant or little essay or even more than one sentence, really. You went on to give a ridiculous defense based on length, when I po. At this point, you just seemed to ignore it and call me a hypocrite instead.

copy-pasta

You seriously just used the phrase "copy pasta" in an argument, that's really helping your case...... no wait, actually it totally nullified any coherent points you may have had.[/quote]

Style over Substance fallacy. You ARE actually wrong on this one, and it's not a matter of opinion. The language I use does NOT nullify any coherent points I have made. That's trying to get out of the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_over_substance

In before LOL WIKIPEDIA, you can read about it at the Fallacy Files and many other sites too, I just thought this would be easiest for you to understand. Of course, you've conveniently left the debate, giving me no chance to rebuke your quite frankly insulting accusations.

[Rena Rune]

Guff

You know, you don't really have a point in any of that for the basic point that nowhere did you throw this wall of text at Jappo. Not only that, you bring up points from other threads, things we've dropped earlier in the thread - you know the kind of things people get warnings from mods over if they aren't the admin. As far as I can see all you do with threads involving me is incite more shit instead of actually dealing with me. You know I decided to give this place ANOTHER CHANCE? And you pull the same thing again? Life's great when you don't have to worry what the outside world thinks of your social circle, I guess.

Jappo is downright insulting for most of this thread. Oh, what's that you say? You deal with him on a CONSTANT BASIS? Then why do I get the "special treatement" of being dealth with publically, exactly? It's not even, no matter what way you look at it.

Clearly you have a personal interest in me as an opponent you keep throwing shit at(one of the reasons I'm still around) even after I've clearly lost interest you as one. Quite frankly, knock it off.

"I can prove you all wrong with logic!" shtick. Clearly none of them are working, because as soon as someone pokes a hole in one, you moved on to the next one, complemented by a variety of phrases demanding that people somehow have brutal sexual intercourse with themselves.

Oh yeah, because nobody ever proved anyone wrong with logic. How DO you prove someone wrong then? By shouting at people because you're more respected than the person you're shouting at?

This thought process is a shambles. You constantly appeal to the majority, common practice, yet claim to have studied logic. Again I'm going to pull up that example of the Pro-War Gundam SEED forum I had the misfortunte of falling into.

Guess what? You're the admin, and apparently what you say goes. If you can recognise that logic SHOULD be the make of a good argument, regardless of how it happens in real life, you can at least attempt to make that so.

You insist on some relatively irrelevant crap yet when it comes to taking action where it matters, you throw crap at the person who isn't even the one provoking the argument.

No-one in "the real world" is going to take you seriously when you call them a "USELESS FUCKING SHITHEAD" that is "incapable of understanding". You know what that will get you?

This is still style over substance. Online arguments are more heated than real life ones, this is a given, and certain comments have provoked the level of heat. There is nothing WRONG with heated argument, the great thing about the internet is that we can have heated argument without knocking each other's blocks off, the problem is this is just a shitfest thanks to people who keep abusing certain ideas.

You know what? If you have a problem with it, deal with the real trolls like Jappo before they aggrivate people to the point. I might be insulting people on some level, but it doesn't invalidate my argument. There are people who's arguments are ENTIRELY insults and invalid accusations, and you do not bother with them.

Two wrongs don't make a right

Nowhere did I say two "Wrongs" make a right. I already dealth with this. Heated debate isn't "wrong", sometimes insults can be called for, if you can back it up.

If people have such a problem with my language, then first off they can stop provoking me. It's bad enough I have to put up with being called a hypocrite based on purposefully truncated quotes, let alone not being able to vent at all.

At the end of a day, my argument is a reaction. If people want to see me being calm, because it honestly is not within my ability to take some of these comments level headedly. This is the second time in a thread where there's been a shitstorm and you've only aggrivated it by focusing almost entirely on the aggrivated member. I am more than willing to knock off the "attitude" if people knock of theirs. You can say the reverse, but again, substance should come before style, and I'm going to push this principle. As an admin or moderator you should be able to put yourself in people's shoes easily and see why they react the way they do, and reason with them based on that. Saying you agree with some of what they're saying isn't quite enough.

No matter how many people disagree, you are not performing the expected role of a moderator or admin, therefore in terms of the definition, you are performing poorly. You are aggrivating instead of alleviating, and I'm giving you an honest chance to correct this.

Incidentally even with my "Bias" I would handle this thread much better than you. All you've done is pick on one member that wandered in later in the thread. Your posts seem to attempt to be friendly for one sentence, then throw up some incredibly astounding insult the next. I'm never quite sure what to make.

Either way, if you want to get on with me like you suggested in the IRC, how about you stop picking on me in every discussion I get involved with? If we count the IRC, this is the 3rd time now you've done this. There are other people in this thread.

[omegacwa]

Either way, if you want to get on with me like you suggested in the IRC, how about you stop picking on me in every discussion I get involved with? If we count the IRC, this is the 3rd time now you've done this. There are other people in this thread.

Maybe it's because you are the only one acting childish, and throwing personal, unwarranted attacks at people. Like, these aren't exact quotes ok, "Your opinion is retarded" "if you don't have evidence to back up your opinion then you are an Idiot" and so on.

An opinion is an opinion. It's the way you feel about a subjective subject. You don't have to back it up.

Goku is in High School, do I care? no. What evidence do I need to back up my opinion. um....I don't care.... That's it. I don't have a wall of text to tell you why I don't care, I just don't.

[JAPPO]

Rena Rune, if you don't like the people OR the admins on this board, then I don't know... leave?

[Innagadadavida]

Her ego, it's bigger than.... than.... Vegeta's!