Exactly how strong were the Kaioshin?

Satan-Sama · Post by **Satan-Sama** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:19 am

SSJ2bardock wrote:
B wrote:
Gozar wrote:Like I said, I don't think that's possible. He nearly pissed his pants at the sight of Pui-Pui, who Vegeta took out in seconds. I don't think there can be THAT big of a different between Base Vegeta and Piccolo even at this point in the series.
Vegeta had been training in high gravity since Post-Frieza arc; I wolud say Base form Vegeta at the Buu arc probably wouldn't have trouble with Piccolo at all. Vegeta is pretty much a whole different entity between those two sagas because of his desire to surpass the Son family.
Piccolo was training too, he's always training.

Also, he went in the Room of Spirit and Time after the fusion with Kami. I would say he would need to go Super Saiyan in order to fight Piccolo (mind you he would probably dominate him).

otakutrevan · Post by **otakutrevan** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:04 am

Gozar wrote:I've always believed the Supreme Kaio to be insanely ignorant. I mean come on, the man feared Pui-Pui, who Vegeta took out with no effort at all. I don't believe he's as strong as people make him out to be. I'd say he's probably around 3'rd form Freeza's level. For a man watching over the universe he really seems to know very little. I doubt he kept a close eye on Freeza, it would seem that the Kaio of the North did a better job on that and even he didn't know of Freeza's true power. I just can't believe someone who really seems to be so ill informed could know what he was talking about regarding Freeza's power.

I cosign this all the way. Supreme Kai, Didn't know anything about anything. I personally dont think the Supreme Kai could handle first form freeza. And as for the kai standing toe to toe with Kid Buu. I'm sure Buu was toying with him, because goku was barely going toe to toe with kid buu as Super Saiyan 2. The kaioshin are...weak...and...stupid...lol

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:04 pm

I think East Kaioshin was around Perfect Cell's suppressed power. Kaioshin was referring to Freeza at the peak of his power, not his weakest form. It's stupid. That would be like believing Krillin is referring to Third form Freeza when he said Cell was stronger then Freeza. Goku also was amazed, and that quote was never contradicted even a little bit.

Kaioshin didn't fear Pui-Pui, he didn't want Vegeta, who was suppressed, to enter a battle and get his ass kicked by someone who is obviously a strong enemy. Vegeta was simply suppressing his power. It's no different then Krillin and Gohan believing Goku was foolish in tryin to challenge the Ginyu Force.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:22 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think East Kaioshin was around Perfect Cell's suppressed power. Kaioshin was referring to Freeza at the peak of his power, not his weakest form. It's stupid. That would be like believing Krillin is referring to Third form Freeza when he said Cell was stronger then Freeza. Goku also was amazed, and that quote was never contradicted even a little bit.

Kaioshin didn't fear Pui-Pui, he didn't want Vegeta, who was suppressed, to enter a battle and get his ass kicked by someone who is obviously a strong enemy. Vegeta was simply suppressing his power. It's no different then Krillin and Gohan believing Goku was foolish in tryin to challenge the Ginyu Force.

Agreed. Kaioshin would clearly be referring to Final Form Freeza. Also, I just think Kaioshin was being cautious, as he had seen all his family (uh the other Kaioshin) get wiped out by Babidi and Kid Buu, so he obviously assumed Babidi's other warriors were probably just as strong.

I would say East Kaioshin is probably in the Cell area SSJ1 in strength. But obviously no where near SSJ2 or beyond.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:22 pm

Piccolo probably didn't want to fight Kaioshin because the Kami part of him now had a respect for the holy order.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:36 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think East Kaioshin was around Perfect Cell's suppressed power. Kaioshin was referring to Freeza at the peak of his power, not his weakest form. It's stupid. That would be like believing Krillin is referring to Third form Freeza when he said Cell was stronger then Freeza. Goku also was amazed, and that quote was never contradicted even a little bit.

Kaioshin didn't fear Pui-Pui, he didn't want Vegeta, who was suppressed, to enter a battle and get his ass kicked by someone who is obviously a strong enemy. Vegeta was simply suppressing his power. It's no different then Krillin and Gohan believing Goku was foolish in tryin to challenge the Ginyu Force.

Makes sense to me. Kaioshin didn't know what he was talking about, either when it comes to Pui-Pui's strength, Vegeta's strength, or both.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:45 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Piccolo probably didn't want to fight Kaioshin because the Kami part of him now had a respect for the holy order.

True, but doesn't he tell Krillin that they were at two totally different levels (obviously implying Kaioshin dwarfed him, and not the other way around).

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:18 pm

Kaio-sama was weaker than Freeza.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:21 pm

RoarkVegeta wrote:Kaio-sama was weaker than Freeza.

Yes. But this thread is about the Kaioshin, not the Kaio(..s?).

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:23 pm

Bussani wrote:
RoarkVegeta wrote:Kaio-sama was weaker than Freeza.
Yes. But this thread is about the Kaioshin, not the Kaio(..s?).

Oops! Very sorry.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:39 am

Dayspring wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Piccolo probably didn't want to fight Kaioshin because the Kami part of him now had a respect for the holy order.
True, but doesn't he tell Krillin that they were at two totally different levels (obviously implying Kaioshin dwarfed him, and not the other way around).

Which doesn't seem that implausible, really. At his strongest, Piccolo was around Artifical Human-Imperfect Cell power, yeah? By Buu, I don't think he was stronger than Perfect Cell, or at least not by much.

I'm guessing our Kaoshin buddy was around the neighborhood of Perfect Cell, if a bit lower. You don't have to be COMPLETELY outclassed to be afraid of someone. If someone just outclassed him by a bit, or was equally-matched to him, then our pal Kaioshin could quite reasonably be scared in a fight-to-the-death scenario.

I'm not sure what the exact line about Dabura is either....was it made clear that Kaioshin wasn't strictly afraid of Dabura's magical abilities? Frankly, the whole stone statue bit would be enough to scare stronger opponents that may not be swift enough to dodge a loogie.

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:01 pm

I think that the Kaioshin is as strong as SSJ Trunks(Trunks saga),i think that in this case he was refering to Freeza full power because he and the Kaioshin knew about the Super Saiyans.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think East Kaioshin was around Perfect Cell's suppressed power. Kaioshin was referring to Freeza at the peak of his power, not his weakest form. It's stupid. That would be like believing Krillin is referring to Third form Freeza when he said Cell was stronger then Freeza. Goku also was amazed, and that quote was never contradicted even a little bit.

Krillin can sesne Ki you know...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:50 pm

That's a good point, Kaioshin did know about Super Saiyajin, didn't he? It was only SSJ2 that might have surprised him. And any SSJ is at least stronger than Freeza.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:57 pm

Yamcha_krillin wrote:I think that the Kaioshin is as strong as SSJ Trunks(Trunks saga),i think that in this case he was refering to Freeza full power because he and the Kaioshin knew about the Super Saiyans.

Why is he that weak? A more powerful version of Trunks was out after #18 threw Vegeta into him. You don't really think Majin Boo's power only had #18 "like power" within them, do you?

Krillin can sesne Ki you know...

Um, okay. The context of said quotes is what's being debated, though.

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:58 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Why is he that weak? A more powerful version of Trunks was out after #18 threw Vegeta into him. You don't really think Majin Boo's power only had #18 "like power" within them, do you?

I think that SSJ Trunks is abel to kill Freeza in a blow

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:04 am

Yamcha_krillin wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Why is he that weak? A more powerful version of Trunks was out after #18 threw Vegeta into him. You don't really think Majin Boo's power only had #18 "like power" within them, do you?
I think that SSJ Trunks is abel to kill Freeza in a blow

Yeah, so Kaioshin is at least that strong, but more likely stronger from what Herms said. If he's stronger than Piccolo, then he's at least as strong as the Androids were.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:30 am

First, B, please fix your signature. The top line above the text is seriously stretching out the page~

Anyway, that aside....

Like I said, I don't think that's possible. He nearly pissed his pants at the sight of Pui-Pui, who Vegeta took out in seconds.

Kaioshin was freaking out only because Pui Pui was a Majin and he's terrified of Majin's. Otherwise, Pui Pui is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan and weaker than Base Vegeta.

Also, Piccolo would rip any of the base Saiya-jins in half without even the slightest bit of trouble. If base Vegeta's a 1 then Piccolo's a 25, at a minimum.

Pui-pui was slowed down by 10x normal gravity. I think he was a lot weaker than Freeza. Kaioshin probably once again didn't know exactly what he was talking about.

That's the way I see it. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that Babidi's henchmen weren't just random guys with random levels of power. They were stand ins for the previous main villains. In other words:

Pui Pui = Saiya-jin Saga Vegeta

Yakon = Freeza

Dabura = Perfect Cell

And as for differences in power between Piccolo and Kaioshin, Kaioshin could take Piccolo with ease, IMO. Kaioshin is at least equal to Semi-Perfect Cell and Piccolo's, at best, two thirds of that power.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:35 am

Xyex wrote:Also, Piccolo would rip any of the base Saiya-jins in half without even the slightest bit of trouble. If base Vegeta's a 1 then Piccolo's a 25, at a minimum.

Not according to Bobbidi and Dabra.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:46 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Xyex wrote:Also, Piccolo would rip any of the base Saiya-jins in half without even the slightest bit of trouble. If base Vegeta's a 1 then Piccolo's a 25, at a minimum.
Not according to Bobbidi and Dabra.

He did seem to think that the Saiyajin did have more potential than Piccolo, but he may have been sensing something deeper than just their power at the time. After all, they were suppressing their ki and trying to hide, so it can't just be that they were going by their base strength alone.

Some characters like Saichourou, Kami and Korin seem to be able to sense something deeper than their current power level. I wouldn't be surprised if Babidi and Dabura were similar, given who they are.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:46 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Xyex wrote:Also, Piccolo would rip any of the base Saiya-jins in half without even the slightest bit of trouble. If base Vegeta's a 1 then Piccolo's a 25, at a minimum.
Not according to Bobbidi and Dabra.

They never say a thing about the difference between Vegeta's and Piccolo's power. Ever.

Other than Piccolo's better at suppressing his power than the Saiya-jins are, that is.