"Super Saiya-jin" References in Manga

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:31 pm

Working on a section. It'll be cool.

First mention of "Super Saiya-jin" throughout the entire manga is the first showing of Nappa and Vegeta. Fine, got that. But what's next? Vegeta talks on and on and on about it on Namek, but when does he begin? Is there anything before that?

I hoping others know and I don't have to read through the first eight volumes to get to where I know I need to pick up

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:00 pm

I think the legend was first mentioned on Namek when Goku KO'd Rikuum.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:37 pm

Re-flipped through the manga, against my own wishes

. I've only got Viz's DBZ 1-10, so if there's anything else between this and Goku's actual transformation, I'll need some help. Viz chapter numbers for my own convenience.

Beyond the Freeza saga... is there really any actual dialogue about "the legend" anywhere else in the series? There's the other SSJ transformations, but I don't recall anyone ever saying anything else about them somehow relating to "the legend" (as we'll call it). There's tons of talk about surpassing limits and blah blah blah, etc... but none of that has anything to do, specifically, with "the legend." Discuss?

DBZ VOLUME 6
------------

Chapter 70, p 166
Freeza talks about a premonition concerning a powerful Saiyan that will arise
"It would be more than a nuisance if they were to become Super Saiyans..."

DBZ VOLUME 8
------------

Chapter 86,
Title = "Super Saiyan!?"
Vegeta's dialogue about the "legend"

Chapter 88
Vegeta decides Goku's not a SSJ because he didn't kill Butta

Chapter 91
Goku's power reaches over 180,000; Ginyu believes Goku must be "the legend", the SSJ
Again, Goku doesn't want to kill; Ginyu confused, says Goku can't be the SSJ; should love violence

Chapter 95
Vegeta believes he's getting close to becoming a Super Saiyan

Chapter 96
Vegeta says he'll take care of everyone else after Freeza, 'cuz he'll be a Super Saiyan

DBZ VOLUME 9
------------

Chapter 101
Vegeta tells Freeza that he's become a SSJ

DBZ VOLUME 10
--------------

Chapter 108
Vegeta thinks that he'll become a SSJ if he recovers from near death just once more

Chapter 109
Freeza says he doesn't believe in the legend, but it wouldn't hurt to be careful...

Chapter 110
Dende heals Vegeta (who was blasted by Kuririn), and now thinks he's transformed

Chapter 111
Vegeta proclaims to Freeza he's become a SSJ; Piccolo wonders what this SSJ thing is all about

Chapter 112
Freeza says they can all agree it was just a legend, after all
Vegeta refuses to believe

Chapter 113
Vegeta senses Goku's re-arrival and new strength
Vegeta tells Freeza that Goku is the true SSJ

Chapter 114
Freeza has shot Vegeta, who keeps telling Goku he's the SSJ, but he has to lose his "damned sentiment"
Explains that Freeza destroyed Vegeta because he feared a Super Saiyan would arise

Milton · Post by **Milton** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:54 pm

I could be wrong, but how about when Mecha Freeza and King Cold show up on Earth? Cold said something to the effect of, "So this is a Super Saiyan." Not really a "legend" comment, but the way he said it was almost like, "Wow, so it IS true."

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:33 pm

Again, not really "legend" stuff, but close enough.

I think the only other bits of dialogue are when Goku and Freeza talk about how Goku managed to transform ("Despite my gentle heart, great anger awakened the legendary warrior within me." "Gentle heart and great anger you say? Now I understand why Vegeta wasn't able to transform."), when Trunks talks with Goku ("Can you consciously transform into a Super Saiyan?" "Yeah, at first I couldn't control it, but now I do.") and when Vegeta appears as a SSJ (he talks about how he transformed thanks to the pure evil in his heart, yada yada yada, and that "When I transform I'm even more brutal than usual, my mind clouded with rage. You androids don't feel pain, right? Good for you..." - one of my favourite lines, by the way).

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:05 pm

Eh...maybe Toriyama didn't know what he was talking about and just wanted to make the story seem more interesting. I mean, having the main character be an alien...but then a special alien? Also, in the Viz translation either Vegeta or Nappa commented on the human-Saiyan mix as being "Super Saiyans," or something. Then Toriyama could have just shifted the focus for it to be an actual transformation to make the story even cooler. I think that he originally planned the Super Saiyan thing to not be some transformation, but instead to be like some exceptional fighter that only comes around once in a (long) while.

SDHero · Post by **SDHero** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:05 am

Actually, for Toriyama, the SSJ thing was one of his few really good jobs at building up an idea rather than just springing it on the reader and then hastily explaining it.

Also, in the manga, do they ever talk about the SSJ appearing only once every 1000 years or whatever like they do in the series? Or was Toriyama just not concerned about that when he made more characters go SSJ ?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:41 am

I believe Vegeta said "Kakarotto can't be the Super Saiya-Jin of legend! There is only one every 1,000 years!"
Of course, that's probably a messed up quote from memory.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:14 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:I believe Vegeta said "Kakarotto can't be the Super Saiya-Jin of legend! There is only one every 1,000 years!"
Of course, that's probably a messed up quote from memory.

No, that's correct... but it's only part of it. The full quote is thus:

Vegeta wrote:I- Impossible! No, such a thing cannot be! That bastard... there's no way a low-level warrior such as Kakarrot should be able to become anything like the Super Saiyan of legend!

I- It's said that one Super Saiyan appears in a millennium. Th- The Super Saiyan, who scales the wall that even genius fighters cannot surpass! Th- There's no way... it has to be just some pathetic story!

E- Even if the legend is true... the only one who should have the potential to become the Super Saiyan, is me!!

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:19 am

Close enough!

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:45 am

From the Viz manga:

Graphic Novel 7, Chapter 71, Page 9

Great Elder: You speak as though the child died. Was it old age... ? Or was he killed... ?

Kuririn: Killed. By a Saiyan called Vegeta... Who's right here now...

Great elder: By a Saiyan... ?

It is true that the saiyans are terrible, but... but to have killed the prodigy of the dragon clan...

...Is it possible that he was...

... a Super Saiyan... ?

Nappa also says something about "Super Saiyans" at the end of Volume 1, but he was referring to 1/2 Saiyan 1/2 Human hybrids

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:18 am

I already mentioned that in my earlier post...
I think the reason the Super Saiyan thing was a really gradual and not rushed idea of Toriyama's was because his idea of the transformation changed as the story changed. I bet he didn't even think of making the SSJ an actual transformation, let alone one that turns hair gold and eyes green.

Endishiki · Post by **Endishiki** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:56 am

Not sure how much it has to do with the "legend", per se...

Volume 13, Chapter 149
Shortly after Vegita turns into a SSj for the first time. Everyone looks shocked.

Kuririn: N-no way...!! Why is he a S-Super Saiyan...?! I thought you had to have a "Pure Heart"...?!

Vegita: My heart is pure... pure evil! I desired nothing but to be stronger. I endured a training from hell. Then I ran into a wall. My own limits. In the rage I felt towards myself, I awoke... into a Super Saiyan!!! I over flowed with joy. I finally surpassed Kakkarot! I could be the true Saiyan messiah!

The only thing that really has to do with the 'legend' is Vegita referring to himself as the 'messiah' for his race.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:10 am

That VIZ translation makes it sound like Vegeta ran into a wall, got knocked out, and awoke as a Super Saiya-Jin...

Sho™ · Post by **Sho™** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:12 am

There is always Movie #8, that is, if you're prepared to count that.

Vegeta witnesses Brolli power up and says: 'He's the one! The Saiyan of legend!' However if I remember correctly, the Japanese version said something a little different to that...