Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Rocketman]

That was in the manga, too.

There's a different part in the anime. Goku gets knocked out of SSJ3, then Vegeta goes in at base and gets bumraped. Goku then comes back, goes SSJ3 again and continues the fight, then there's the scene where Vegeta takes over to give Goku the minute to charge his ki (he goes SSJ2 here to fight).

The scene in the manga is after all of that, when Vegeta's already exhausted to the point he can't go SSJ and he's desperately trying to give Goku enough time to gather the Spirit Bomb.

The scene in the anime, Vegeta's just made too goddamn stupid to realize he may need to power up if he's going to fight something that knocked Goku out of SSJ3.

[Bussani]

That was in the manga, too.

There's a different part in the anime. Goku gets knocked out of SSJ3, then Vegeta goes in at base and gets bumraped. Goku then comes back, goes SSJ3 again and continues the fight, then there's the scene where Vegeta takes over to give Goku the minute to charge his ki (he goes SSJ2 here to fight).

The scene in the manga is after all of that, when Vegeta's already exhausted to the point he can't go SSJ and he's desperately trying to give Goku enough time to gather the Spirit Bomb.

The scene in the anime, Vegeta's just made too goddamn stupid to realize he may need to power up if he's going to fight something that knocked Goku out of SSJ3.

When you put it that way, all of the Toei examples of Vegeta being especially dumb are true. But then again, that goes for every character Toei gets hold of. See Goku vs Super 17 in GT.

[The Tori-bot]

That was in the manga, too.

There's a different part in the anime. Goku gets knocked out of SSJ3, then Vegeta goes in at base and gets bumraped.

Whew, I ain't seen this part!

[Deep Thought]

I'm actually kind of glad that Vegeta gets the cold, metal shaft to the face. His shitty personality and character deserve it.

Besides, the Buu Saga just blew in general, anyway.

[jjgp1112]

That's why I don't understand Vegeta fanboys. When Vegeta gets beat up or does something stupid, it's TOEI or Toriyama screwing him over. But if Gohan did the same thing, it's because he's a stupid pussy.

[Rocketman]

That's why I don't understand Vegeta fanboys. When Vegeta gets beat up or does something stupid, it's TOEI or Toriyama screwing him over. But if Gohan did the same thing, it's because he's a stupid pussy.

Gohan got to become the strongest man in the universe by sitting on his ass for 24 hours.

[JulieYBM]

That's why I don't understand Vegeta fanboys. When Vegeta gets beat up or does something stupid, it's TOEI or Toriyama screwing him over. But if Gohan did the same thing, it's because he's a stupid pussy.

Gohan got to become the strongest man in the universe by sitting on his ass for 24 hours.

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

[Rocketman]

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

Apparently "it doesn't matter how hard you work, there will be someone who got more for free" is too.

[bkev]

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

Apparently "it doesn't matter how hard you work, there will be someone who got more for free" is too.

Hey, didn't that happen to Kuririn on Namek too?

[jjgp1112]

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

Apparently "it doesn't matter how hard you work, there will be someone who got more for free" is too.

Would it be cheating if Vegeta did it?

[JulieYBM]

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

Apparently "it doesn't matter how hard you work, there will be someone who got more for free" is too.

At the end of the day, is this something you really want to dedicate so much of your emotional energy to?

[Rocketman]

Hey, didn't that happen to Kuririn on Namek too?

No, for several reasons:

1. Krillin had not spent the previous seven years being a lazy punk and letting his power slip away.

2. Krillin's power-up did not catapult him from being said lazy punk to being "The Strongest Being In The Universe".

Would it be cheating if Vegeta did it?

No. It also wouldn't be if Goku had done it. It wouldn't be if Gohan had trained for the previous seven years.

But, what we get is Gohan whining from the second he gets pushed into being the Earth's hero at the Cell Games, fucking up immediately and needing daddy to step in, giving up until his daddy steps in again, then throwing it all away for seven years to eat Funyuns and watch The View.

Then, oh no! Earth is in danger again! Gohan proves he's now completely inadequate and has been surpassed by people who actually work. The boy even fails to get angry, which was his entire gimmick since his first appearance. But, no worries, here's a bullshit powerup to put you ahead of all the people who've done more than sit on their ass and make you be the hero again!

Why people want him to be the hero, I honestly do not know.

At the end of the day, is this something you really want to dedicate so much of your emotional energy to?

If it's so unimportant, why are you talking to me about it?

[jjgp1112]

Hey, didn't that happen to Kuririn on Namek too?

No, for several reasons:

1. Krillin had not spent the previous seven years being a lazy punk and letting his power slip away.

2. Krillin's power-up did not catapult him from being said lazy punk to being "The Strongest Being In The Universe".

Would it be cheating if Vegeta did it?

No. It also wouldn't be if Goku had done it. It wouldn't be if Gohan had trained for the previous seven years.

But, what we get is Gohan whining from the second he gets pushed into being the Earth's hero at the Cell Games, fucking up immediately and needing daddy to step in, giving up until his daddy steps in again, then throwing it all away for seven years to eat Funyuns and watch The View.

Then, oh no! Earth is in danger again! Gohan proves he's now completely inadequate and has been surpassed by people who actually work. The boy even fails to get angry, which was his entire gimmick since his first appearance. But, no worries, here's a bullshit powerup to put you ahead of all the people who've done more than sit on their ass and make you be the hero again!

Why people want him to be the hero, I honestly do not know.

At the end of the day, is this something you really want to dedicate so much of your emotional energy to?

If it's so unimportant, why are you talking to me about it?

So calming down after the Cell Games and actually wanting do something besides fighting makes him a pussy?

[Wojak]

I honestly do not understand how people expect Gohan to not relax after the Cell games, given his nature. He did so after the Freeza arc too, until Trunks showed up.
Gohan at 5: I want to become a scholar.
Gohan at 5 (still): I want to become a scholar.
Gohan at 6: Shit, Androids are going to attack, I'll have to help to fight. Leave school for a while.
Gohan at 9: Androids attacking, I'll do what I can and get back to school later.
Gohan at 10: I am a lot stronger, but can't this be over already? 1 year of training. I hate all these useless fights! Leave me some peace!

Gohan's power is "explained" in that hybrids have greater potential than full blood Saiya-jins. How that statement wouldn't matter later in the series too, I don't really get.
Also, by the Buu arc, he had gotten strong enough for all his power being released, which by that theory means that he naturally was stronger than Goku and Vegeta, no matter how much effort they put.

Also the wisest choice in that matter would be to give the fighter with most power after the release the shot. Even though that it didn't matter in the end and that Gohan was just chosen because of that he destroyed the Z-sword.
I guess that Toriyama wanted to give Gohan a last hooray before letting Goku take over.

[Bussani]

...to draw out his hidden power. Isn't 'the power within' typically a Shônen archtype?

Apparently "it doesn't matter how hard you work, there will be someone who got more for free" is too.

Actually, it probably is. Natural talent and ability vs hard work is a common theme in shounen. Sometimes the hard work pays off, other times the person has to come to terms with the fact that they might just not be able to surpass natural talent. I actually like this about Vegeta's character, the moment when he realizes and accepts that Goku has both the talent and the ability to do the hard work to keep pulling ahead of him is one of the biggest character development moments we get.

We do see Vegeta pull ahead of Gohan thanks to his hard work. I guess from one point of view the Kaioshin upgrade is cheating since it brings all that natural ability of Gohan's to the surface without any work, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Was Rou Dai Kaioshin supposed to just ignore the walking blob of hidden potential they had standing right there?

Toriyama could have had Vegeta power up greatly, but I think I like how Vegeta came out in the end better. If anything GT should have been about Vegeta finally getting ahead.

[Rocketman]

So calming down after the Cell Games and actually wanting do something besides fighting makes him a pussy?

No. If he had gone on with his studying and stuff after the Cell Games and ended DBZ as a professor, much weaker than he was in the Games, then hoo-rah. The boy did something he wanted to do.

As is, we get a character who NEVER wants to fight constantly get shoved on us as the Big Damn Hero, and given bullshit power-ups to put him in that position.

[Bussani]

So calming down after the Cell Games and actually wanting do something besides fighting makes him a pussy?

No. If he had gone on with his studying and stuff after the Cell Games and ended DBZ as a professor, much weaker than he was in the Games, then hoo-rah. The boy did something he wanted to do.

As is, we get a character who NEVER wants to fight constantly get shoved on us as the Big Damn Hero, and given bullshit power-ups to put him in that position.

With great (hidden or otherwise) power comes great responsibility. Reluctant hero is another standard shounen character really.

[Rocketman]

With great (hidden or otherwise) power comes great responsibility. Reluctant hero is another standard shounen character really.

Goku's never been reluctant. And you have Piccolo and eventually Vegeta, both who wanted to destroy the world, more eager to defend it than Gohan.

[Bussani]

With great (hidden or otherwise) power comes great responsibility. Reluctant hero is another standard shounen character really.

Goku's never been reluctant. And you have Piccolo and eventually Vegeta, both who wanted to destroy the world, more eager to defend it than Gohan.

Goku's not the reluctant hero character, of course. He's the...well, he's Goku, one of the first happy care free shounen characters there was. He pretty much started his own stock character.

I wouldn't say Gohan isn't eager to defend the world. Fighting isn't his top priority, he just isn't interested. But he always drops everything to help out when necessary. Has there ever been a time where he doesn't? He's reluctant, but not to the point of running away from the action.

[jjgp1112]

With great (hidden or otherwise) power comes great responsibility. Reluctant hero is another standard shounen character really.

Goku's never been reluctant. And you have Piccolo and eventually Vegeta, both who wanted to destroy the world, more eager to defend it than Gohan.

That's part of his character. Need I remind you that he said he didn't like fighting right to Cell's face? It's part of his character development. In the Cell games, he learns that he needs to drop his restraints and just fight, and then we he gets too full of himself and makes things worse, he regresses, but Goku motivates him.

Then he slacks off after the 7 years of piece, and finds himself weaker in the Buu saga. But then, he gets the power up and kicks ass, and this time, it wasn't even his fault for things fucking up afterwards.