Why did Goku grab Raditz's tail?

[Son Wukong]

Back at Kame House while Goku is recovering from a knee to his abdomen received from his big brother, he is thinking of a strategy to take down Raditz and comes up with the brilliant idea of grabbing his tail, since that's probably his most vulnerable point just as it was with Goku himself.

During the fight against Raditz, Goku actually manages to grab Raditz's tail and tells Piccolo to fire the Makankosappo. He eventually lets go of the tail when Raditz pleads for forgiveness, which leads Goku back on the ground, this time with broken ribs. Later on Goku somehow finds the strenght to sneak behind Raditz and lock him in a full nelson, telling Piccolo, once again, to fire the Makankosappo. When Piccolo asks Goku why he didnt grab his tail this time, Goku replies something in the sense of ''He can cut off his tail at will'' and we hear Raditz respond on this with ''(so) You knew that''........

This whole situation with the tail seems a lot more complicated than it would seem (or rather, I would like it to be more complicated than it seems ). There are now a few hypothetical ''train of thoughts'' I would like to introduce that took place during this situation:

#1. Goku didn't intended to kill Raditz when it wasn't necessary once he had his tail, hoping that Raditz would be sorry and just leave, baring in mind that even if Raditz cut off his own tail he wouldn't be stable enough to fight, giving Goku and Piccolo the time to take him down anyway. This however wouldn't explain why he didn't grab Raditz's tail the second time.

#2. Situation #1 would be explainable if Goku would consider the possiblity that Raditz's stability wouldn't be affected by his tail being cut off, making Goku's action nothing more than a bluff. This is supported by Raditz's phrase ''You knew that'', implying that Raditz himself knew that he could cut off his own tail without being affected so much to incur serious danger. This however is not supported by the fact that Raditz, a proud fighter that he is, would consider begging for his life. But there is a possibility that Raditz desperately needed his tail with the full moon to conquer Earth as fast a possible and therefore cutting his own tail would be a final resort. Or that apart from being a proud fighter, he is also a dirty/cunning fighter that wouldn't mind using this sort of antics on the battlefield.

#3. Goku simply forgot that Raditz was able to cut off his own tail and was fooled by him but remembered it while his ribs were being wrecked. This situation would suggest that Goku did figure out that Raditz wouldn't be affected by his tail being cut off. But then again, why would Raditz beg for mercy? Because of the reasons mentioned in situation #2? Also, if adult Saiya-jins are not affected by their tails being cut off, why would Piccolo try to grab Nappa's tail after he learns from Goku that it's no use? Did he simply forget it by then too?

So aside from the question as to why Goku grabbed the tail, we can also ask the question whether a common adult Saiya-jin, such as Raditz, is affected in his stability after his tail is cut off.

And I do have one more possibility..

#4. Mr. Toriyama was picking his nose when he was creating this scene and I am reading way too much into things.

[Rocketman]

Goku's tail was broken off by Grandpa Gohan at Baba's tournament. Goku also knows it's possible to train the tail to handle being 'squoze'.

Also, Raditz wasn't totally paralyzed by the tail-grabbing, so he may have also figured that going for the tail again would still leave Raditz able to roll, or reach back and cut his tail.

[the_abberration]

IMO, when Goku first grabs Raditz's tail, he caught him off guard and was squeezing his tail pretty hard. Raditz was most likely too weak to attempt to cut his tail off. The second time, both Goku and Raditz were both hurt, so it might have been possible that Goku had the foresight to think that his grip on Raditz's tail would not be as strong as the first time (allowing Raditz enough strength to cut it off).

Raditz made mention of "what did they do you" to Goku when he saw his tail was gone. This leads me to believe that a Saiyan without a tail is a big dishonor among the Saiyan race (also he loses the ability to transform during a full moon), so Raditz would probrably not want to do this unless it was a last resort. Considering he was getting beat pretty bad, he may have decided this was a last resort.

Raditz also may not have wanted to lose his strength by cutting off his tail, unless it was a last resort. In the orginal DB series, when Goku fought Giran, Goku got trapped by Giran's Lasso-in Gum. It looks like he was only able to escape after his tail grew back (this may be debatable). This may mean that having a tail increases a Saiyan's strentgh (or those who have not trained their tails to overcome their weakness). I recall Vegita made metion that Raditz never trained his tail like he and Nappa did.

[Bussani]

In my opinion, Goku isn't smart enough to think all this through. It just seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Joey Batz]

I support The Abberation's theory. The first time, Goku had a golden opportunity and could not afford to pass it up. But the second time, he probably assumed that Raditz was injured and desperate. He figured that if he grabbed Raditz in a full nelson, Raditz wouldn't be able to power out before Piccolo finished his attack. At the same time, he surely figured that if he grabbed Raditz's tail, Raditz could have just cut it off and kill them all. So why didn't he do the full nelson the first time around? Because Raditz hadn't been injured by Gohan, so he would've just powered right out of the hold. If that's correct, then Goku really is the "genius in battle" that the other characters have said he is many times before and after this battle.

[caejones]

Uh, here's something else. The tail can also be, a hat.


*ahem*.
Well, tail was worth a try. It worked. I guess Goku had time to think about it before he FULLNELSON'D! Raditz. With Goku injured like he was, he needed something that Raditz wouldn't have a cheap way out of, since if he got out too quickly, it was pretty much over. Hm.

[Minigt]

In my opinion, Goku isn't smart enough to think all this through. It just seemed like a good idea at the time.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dayspring]

I figure it hurt Radditz too much to focus enough to do it the first time, but come a second time, he'd be expecting them to re-grab the tail and would prep himself for it and detach it if necessary. As Goku mentions in the 22nd budokai, even those who train their tales still feel a lot of pain. My guess is Radditz less tail-trained than 22nd budokai Goku.

[Bussani]

I figure it hurt Radditz too much to focus enough to do it the first time, but come a second time, he'd be expecting them to re-grab the tail and would prep himself for it and detach it if necessary. As Goku mentions in the 22nd budokai, even those who train their tales still feel a lot of pain. My guess is Radditz less tail-trained than 22nd budokai Goku.

Either that or Raditz fight Goku had a much stronger grip than anyone in the 22nd Budokai. Which is very likely actually.

[Son Wukong]

Also, Raditz wasn't totally paralyzed by the tail-grabbing, so he may have also figured that going for the tail again would still leave Raditz able to roll, or reach back and cut his tail.

He seems pretty fully powerless to me.

IMO, when Goku first grabs Raditz's tail, he caught him off guard and was squeezing his tail pretty hard. Raditz was most likely too weak to attempt to cut his tail off. The second time, both Goku and Raditz were both hurt, so it might have been possible that Goku had the foresight to think that his grip on Raditz's tail would not be as strong as the first time (allowing Raditz enough strength to cut it off).

I'd think if he had the strenght to hold a tight grip on Raditz in that position with broken ribs, he surly could find the strenght to squeeze the tail hard enough.

I figure it hurt Radditz too much to focus enough to do it the first time, but come a second time, he'd be expecting them to re-grab the tail and would prep himself for it and detach it if necessary.

Yes, Raditz being prepared the 2e time could definitely be a factor in this.

In my opinion, Goku isn't smart enough to think all this through. It just seemed like a good idea at the time.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Since it's been stated so many times that Goku is flat out stupid, I get the feeling people start to generalize this also to his battle tactics.
When it comes to fighting Goku surely can be gullible, but certainly not stupid.

[Bussani]

Since it's been stated so many times that Goku is flat out stupid, I get the feeling people start to generalize this also to his battle tactics.
When it comes to fighting Goku surely can be gullible, but certainly not stupid.

That doesn't mean he thinks things through from the start. Usually he just wings it, like he did here. Plan A never seems to go to plan.

[mAcChaos]

Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting. Let's not forget that Kamehameha he gave Cell...

[the_abberration]

As you pointed out in response to Rocketman and myself.

Also, Raditz wasn't totally paralyzed by the tail-grabbing, so he may have also figured that going for the tail again would still leave Raditz able to roll, or reach back and cut his tail.

He seems pretty fully powerless to me.

IMO, when Goku first grabs Raditz's tail, he caught him off guard and was squeezing his tail pretty hard. Raditz was most likely too weak to attempt to cut his tail off. The second time, both Goku and Raditz were both hurt, so it might have been possible that Goku had the foresight to think that his grip on Raditz's tail would not be as strong as the first time (allowing Raditz enough strength to cut it off).

I'd think if he had the strenght to hold a tight grip on Raditz in that position with broken ribs, he surly could find the strenght to squeeze the tail hard enough.

So if Goku could have found the strength to squeeze the tail hard enough the second time, Raditz would have been pretty fully powerless (as you stated) and Goku would not have needed to die. But then the show would have been over. Plot devices. Gotta love'em

[Son Wukong]

So if Goku could have found the strength to squeeze the tail hard enough the second time, Raditz would have been pretty fully powerless (as you stated) and Goku would not have needed to die. But then the show would have been over. Plot devices. Gotta love'em

[silly] Which proofs the theory that Goku is indeed a genius. He even figured that Raditz wasn't probably the only strongest guy out there. Goku deliberatly died and hoped he could train in the other world with some catfish looking guy on a tiny planet, just in case. [/silly]

[Bussani]

Well, in combat Goku is very smart and quick witted. I just don't think he plans ahead very often, and when he does the plan usually goes out the window once he starts fighting and he'll come up with a better plan on the fly.

[Wojak]

Well, in combat Goku is very smart and quick witted. I just don't think he plans ahead very often, and when he does the plan usually goes out the window once he starts fighting and he'll come up with a better plan on the fly.

Like his Shunkan-idou Kamehameha against Cell. And his better plan was to throw out Gohan to act as a punching bag until he maybe got angry.

[Rocketman]

Like his Shunkan-idou Kamehameha against Cell. And his better plan was to throw out Gohan to act as a punching bag until he maybe got angry.

Well, be fair. The Warp Kamehameha would have worked except for the Author Intervention to make Gohan the hero.

[Wojak]

Like his Shunkan-idou Kamehameha against Cell. And his better plan was to throw out Gohan to act as a punching bag until he maybe got angry.

Well, be fair. The Warp Kamehameha would have worked except for the Author Intervention to make Gohan the hero.

I am talking about the story, not about the Author Intervention.
In the story, Goku forgot about Cell's regeneration, which in my way was a big (and stupid) mistake to make, specially if you are an experienced fighter.

[SHINOBI-03]

And what about his two-Kamehameha trick on Freeza? and the Feet Kamehameha?

[Sprite Satan]

I am talking about the story, not about the Author Intervention.

When a character you like does something dumb, it's the author's fault. When a character you dislike does something dumb, it's because they're dumb. Duh.