Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

[MajinVejitaXV]

You can call shit if they called it a restoration, but AFAIK they never did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-BMttyabk

There's a whole segment about the "restoration", straight from FUNi's Season One set.

-Corey

[JulieYBM]

The colors look really nice. I think that the cropping is something I can deal with since it's done as SELECTIVE unlike FUNimation's automated crop-fest. The picture quality will also be kept intact since these seem to be carefully remastered. The one thing I don't like is that the barckground music seems to have been completely rewritten. I was hoping for a re-recorded version of Kikuchi's original DBZ score. I won't judge it, but I'm still a little disappointed.

The promo's music might just be a new piece or instrumental of a new vocal produced for the modified version. It's far too early to assume the music will all be totally different. The new special didn't abandon Kikuchi-san.

[SonGokuGT]

The colors look really nice. I think that the cropping is something I can deal with since it's done as SELECTIVE unlike FUNimation's automated crop-fest. The picture quality will also be kept intact since these seem to be carefully remastered. The one thing I don't like is that the barckground music seems to have been completely rewritten. I was hoping for a re-recorded version of Kikuchi's original DBZ score. I won't judge it, but I'm still a little disappointed.

The promo's music might just be a new piece or instrumental of a new vocal produced for the modified version. It's far too early to assume the music will all be totally different. The new special didn't abandon Kikuchi-san.

Very true. But you have to admit that it does give the vibe that this piece of music is something that could be used as a next episode preview. Either way, I'm looking forward to it. It might be well done. Only time will tell...

[Yi Xing Long]

It's not a huge difference, but there is one. FUNimation basically stuck too black bars on the top and bottom of their footage, toting it as widescreen. Toei is actually cropping out top and bottom footage, but ADDING to the sides, as you can see in that last shot of the Turtle Sage Gang with the logo in the middle, to fit the HD aspect ratio.

You're still LOSING footage in Kai, but you're also gaining some more, unlike FUNimation.

And I've got no idea about purists, but missing parts of the sky and the bottom of someone's feet do not mean shit to me. My complaint about the bricks isn't that FUNi removed footage, it's that they placed black bars over footage. It's not actual widescreen.

Wrong. The season sets do NOT have black bars encoded into them, they are true 16:9 widescreen. Toei DID NOT add any new footage to the sides; they simply zoomed out on each frame (exactly like Funimation did) in order to get more footage. It is footage that has existed since the show was made because the film is not 4:3, but wider.

As far as I can tell, this is exactly the same thing Funimation did, except using tilt-and-scan selective re-framing. I am still not really digging this whole "refresh," but I'll wait and see if it is actually any good.

[Tweaker]

Okay, since I have to stress this again, I am not "striking back against the purists." Maybe you're not referring to me specifically, but it's getting pretty annoying getting labeled as a dub fanboy trying to strike back at purists or something. I mean, for fucks sake, I prefer the Japanese version.

Like I said from the start, I am pointing out irony. And that's exactly what it is--irony in the fact that even though something extremely similar is being done by Toei themselves as FUNimation had done--referring solely to cropping footage, here--that it seems very few people actually have a problem with it this time around.

I'm really starting to get irritated by this widespread disposition against anyone who happens to not hate FUNimation with a passion on this forum. I'm totally partial to them; I don't like how they mangled footage quality and changed the scripts of the show to the point where entire character personalities were changed, but at the same time FUNimation introduced millions and millions of people to the Dragon Ball franchise when it still aired in the US and other regions. I'd be willing to bet that, without FUNimation's treatment of the series, a large majority of people here wouldn't even know what the franchise was.

I'm not going to turn this into a Jap vs FUNimation argument because this thread isn't the place for that, but come the fuck on. Stop throwing labels around and either accept the validity of the observation or just totally ignore it. The way this topic has been derailed is absolutely ridiculous, and I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with its direction. Let's get back to talking about pertinent subjects, not how inconsistent and whiny some of the show's fanbase is. We're supposed to be better than that.

[Super Sayian Prime]

You can call shit if they called it a restoration, but AFAIK they never did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-BMttyabk

There's a whole segment about the "restoration", straight from FUNi's Season One set.

-Corey

Alright then, call shit on their restoration. Just don't call shit on the their remaster.

[Pain]

You can call shit if they called it a restoration, but AFAIK they never did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-BMttyabk

There's a whole segment about the "restoration", straight from FUNi's Season One set.

-Corey

Alright then, call shit on their restoration. Just don't call shit on the their remaster.

What?

[JulieYBM]

You can call shit if they called it a restoration, but AFAIK they never did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-BMttyabk

There's a whole segment about the "restoration", straight from FUNi's Season One set.

-Corey

Alright then, call shit on their restoration. Just don't call shit on the their remaster.

Buddy, whatever the heck they did to the footage is what we call messing it up. If 'remastering' is altering the footage than whatever they did to the footage is plain terrible.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Toei DID NOT add any new footage to the sides; they simply zoomed out on each frame (exactly like Funimation did) in order to get more footage.

Again, this from 15 seconds of footage.

Maybe you're not referring to me specifically

I wasn't. I didn't even pay attention to who was saying what, I was simply making a blanket statement.

Like I said from the start, I am pointing out irony. And that's exactly what it is--irony in the fact that even though something extremely similar is being done by Toei themselves as FUNimation had done--referring solely to cropping footage, here--that it seems very few people actually have a problem with it this time around.

That's because, as many have pointed out, Toei isn't presenting this as the "definitive" version and pretending the original anime doesn't exist, as FUNimation did. Toei will continue to offer the DragonBox singles alongside any "Kai" releases, giving people a choice if they don't like the widescreen treatment. FUNimation, on the other hand, gave people no choice, which was the main complaint almost everyone agreed with.

I'd be willing to bet that, without FUNimation's treatment of the series, a large majority of people here wouldn't even know what the franchise was.

And I'm willing to bet that any number of other anime studios in North America would have picked up the series and had just as much success. The lure was the show, not FUNi's treatment (which actually bombed twice in a tow before Toonami did their reruns).

The way this topic has been derailed is absolutely ridiculous, and I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with its direction.

How so? A few people basically grouped Toei's approach in with FUNimation's, called people hypocrites if they didn't show animosity towards Toei just as much as FUNimation, and I merely pointed out the problems with that approach. If that offends you, there isn't a lot I can do.

-Corey

[Vekurotto]

Yeah, replacing orchestral music with orchestral music would just murder this franchise.

No replacing Shunsuke Kikuchi's music is just changing the fabric of Dragon Ball much like how Gozar said a few pages back. There should be no reason to redo the music at all and it further proves my point, that they're just trying to change Dragon Ball and add some sort of gimick to it much like how Funi did.

And seriously, I freaking don't care if Toei made the Dragonbox and Funi didn't, if this turns out to be cropped selective or not or if any other 'let's change Dragon Ball into something else' bullshit they still should be called out for it. Really are some of you guys being that bias to down Funi's version yet praise Toei even though it looks like they're doing the same thing?

[Zenkai Power]

Wait a second though... what's with the complaining about cropping? As I understand it. The whole damn thing was filmed in a bigger size the the standard 4:3 or whatever it is and 16:9. When the cels, etc. were filmed that is. The 4:3 is a crop too. It's cropped and "framed" for that size. The widescreen version is being RE-FRAMED so they're just moving the frame around so that people's heads don't now get cut off (since Funi didn't do that it made some of the scenes look funny). But it's essentially dealing with the same bit of footage from the perspective of how it should look. In other words, when Funi was saying "How it was MEANT to be seen" it was a lie becuase it wasn't framed by the animators that way. But this is being re-framed to work in this size and like I said... in both cases they're being cropped in some form or another. The true actual size of the filmed portion is larger on both ends... gaining or losing portions of the picture depending on what aspect ratio you're talking about.

So in other words. The cropping is no big deal.

If that really IS how it works then I'm not sure what stuff TOEI re-drew or whatever. Have they actually ADVERTISED that themselves? That they've re-drawn anything? Maybe what they've done is fix some of the animation to look more modern? Besides just color changes.

It seems to me to make it look more modern in terms of animation the put a blur over the picture a bit and changed colors to be brighter and more colorful. So... I'm not seeing where this is coming into play... the re-drawing of anything. It seems other than re-framing and doing a better job with the colors/HD it's the same thing Funi did. Well ya know, also re-recoded lines and music and a new intro, etc.

I still stand by that I think this is a huge test to see if they are going to make a new DB series. In my mind, if they really are doing all this to JUST DBZ then it stands to reason that a new series might actually take place in-between DBZ and GT if they decide it's worth it after this. Just like everyone was talking about. Don't think it couldn't happen, Indiana Jones 4 happened with a 65 year old Harrison Ford after 19 years between LC in 1989 and KOTCS!! lol. Anything's possible. I mean a new animated intro is unnecessary REALLY... I think that's also part of the test (and to make it easier to market as a new product).

When it gets down to money... I think you guys are missing the point. I don't think they've cut it down to 100 episodes just to get rid of filler. I think they did it because it was more cost-effective to do all this work on just 100 episodes versus the 291 or whatever it is. Sure the "no filler" thing is part of why they can get away with it, but I think it was decided to do it that way based on $$$$.

I hope it comes over here though in a year or so. Funi can re-release it as a "No Filler" Blu-Ray set or something.

[MajinVejitaXV]

No replacing Shunsuke Kikuchi's music is just changing the fabric of Dragon Ball much like how Gozar said a few pages back. There should be no reason to redo the music at all and it further proves my point, that they're just trying to change Dragon Ball and add some sort of gimick to it much like how Funi did.

So, if they're merely re-recording the music, it's still an affront?

Really are some of you guys being that bias to down Funi's version yet praise Toei even though it looks like they're doing the same thing?

If FUNi had released the whole series in fullscreen, I wouldn't give a shit about their Orange Bricks. To be fair, as you're implying, I have to apply that same benefit to Toei.

-Corey

[Vekurotto]

No replacing Shunsuke Kikuchi's music is just changing the fabric of Dragon Ball much like how Gozar said a few pages back. There should be no reason to redo the music at all and it further proves my point, that they're just trying to change Dragon Ball and add some sort of gimick to it much like how Funi did.

So, if they're merely re-recording the music, it's still an affront?

Not if it's a perfect redo like the Star Fox 64 music in Star Fox Assault. Then agian there's still no reason to even re-record the music anyway as it doesn't need to be.

If FUNi had released the whole series in fullscreen, I wouldn't give a shit about their Orange Bricks. To be fair, as you're implying, I have to apply that same benefit to Toei.

-Corey

But they haven't even released this 'new' anime at all. Would it have killed them to just NOT crop it at all or just re-animate the damn thing?

[Kaboom]

If they did re-recording of Kikuchi's music, so we'd have the same sountrack just sounding even better than before... I don't think my brain could take the sheer glee of it.

[Vekurotto]

If they did re-recording of Kikuchi's music, so we'd have the same sountrack just sounding even better than before... I don't think my brain could take the sheer glee of it.

Exactly like I said I wouldn't mind it if remade the music but it has to be remakes of Kikuchi's music. And it has to be really really good. The only thing I can think of whenever I think of remaking the music is thoroughly getting rid of the BGM and doing it over. *cough*HokutonoKenOVAs*cough*

[VegettoEX]

But they haven't even released this 'new' anime at all. Would it have killed them to just NOT crop it at all or just re-animate the damn thing?

But this ISN'T a re-do of the series, so it makes little sense to try and drag that situation into the conversation. It seems like it's just a flimsy-at-best standpoint to try and jump off of for an argument. We have to take it for what it is and go from there.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Not if it's a perfect redo like the Star Fox 64 music in Star Fox Assault. Then agian there's still no reason to even re-record the music anyway as it doesn't need to be.

Err, it depends. If the original music wasn't produced in a high fidelity (which is possible, since it was done in the late 80's/early 90's), not re-recording it would make a 5.1 mix sound very odd. I think that's fairly obvious in the FUNi 5.1 tracks.

But they haven't even released this 'new' anime at all. Would it have killed them to just NOT crop it at all or just re-animate the damn thing?

Killed them? No. Possibly alienated their audience? Maybe. As I remember, some people had some misgivings about the second Dr. Slump anime (I may be wrong on this, I just vaguely remember complaints).

Besides, people are seemingly ignoring the whole "they're adding actual new animation to the frames" fact. We've seen 15 seconds of footage, can we wait another month for the first episode before damning Toei?

-Corey

[Vekurotto]

We've seen 15 seconds of footage, can we wait another month for the first episode before damning Toei?

On the contrary, I'm not damning Toei right now but if the trailer is reflective of the final product I'll be very pissed and with good right.

[Zenkai Power]

I like how I can make a huge post and nobody acknowledges any of my points but instead going on and on about whether or not we should be mad at TOEI b/c we wuz mad at Funi.

How about I pointed out why that doesn't matter up above.

[VegettoEX]

I like how I can make a huge post and nobody acknowledges any of my points but instead going on and on about whether or not we should be mad at TOEI b/c we wuz mad at Funi.

How about I pointed out why that doesn't matter up above.

It's great that you feel you made some fantastic points, and yes it sucks to sometimes be looked over... but coming back all high and mighty when you aren't acknowledged and validated doesn't help anything you've said, and in fact hurts every single last point.