Ultimate Power-Up and “beyond the normal limits”

[Wojak]

"When I get out of here, I'm gonna ram my fist into your stomach and break your GODDAMN SPINE!!" - Arnold Schwarzenegger in Running man

TOEI-fist is underrated. It has air of with epic justice.
For great justice.

[Darkprince410]

OK but to me the Super Saiyan transformations are a straight up multiplier, so I guess it just depends what you think the transformations do.

The Super Saiya-jin transformations tap into the hidden potential that their base form isn't naturally able to tap into (this changes through training to release said potential into their base form), so due to the fact that Gohan's full potential had been released, there would be no hidden ki remaining for a Super Saiya-jin transformation to release. If he could actually transform into a Super Saiya-jin, it'd offer no form of power-up.

[Yasai-R-Mighty]

My guess would be no, because SSJ4's base form is the Oozaru. I don't think that power can be tapped into without it.

Hmm...maybe. But SSJ power should only be tapped into with SSJ, yet Rou Dai Kaioshin apparently drew that power out. If an Oozaru's power is something separate and not just coming from the same overall 'pool' of hidden power, I think Rou Dai Kaioshin would have brought it out too. He did say he was bringing out all of Gohan's power. Bringing out the power of the Oozaru too might be one of the things he meant by 'beyond your limits'.

I believe the Ôzaru would not even be in the equation because supposedly it multiplies the base combat strength by a measly 10, while Super Saiyan multiplies it by 50.[/quote]

What I'm mean is perhaps, SSJ isn't a multiplier of power, but it instead taps into as Dayspring called it "latent energy" so if it were all brought to the surface, then Gohan would no longer need to transform. That way the old kaioshin did and said makes sense. He never mentions, giving him power to from an outside source, hence "beyond your limits" has to mean, gain more then what you could have as a regular mortal being training all his life.

As for the Oozaru I brought it up, because of it obvious connection to SSJ4. I was basically comparing SSJ4 to SSJ1-3 (just for fun since most don't consider GT cannon, and I can't blame them) I do believe that it's different, in the sense that Oozaru is different, because it dose draw power from a outside source like the moon. While Oozaru might be a measly multiplier I don't think SSJ4 would be, do you?

[Bussani]

My guess would be no, because SSJ4's base form is the Oozaru. I don't think that power can be tapped into without it.

Hmm...maybe. But SSJ power should only be tapped into with SSJ, yet Rou Dai Kaioshin apparently drew that power out. If an Oozaru's power is something separate and not just coming from the same overall 'pool' of hidden power, I think Rou Dai Kaioshin would have brought it out too. He did say he was bringing out all of Gohan's power. Bringing out the power of the Oozaru too might be one of the things he meant by 'beyond your limits'.

I believe the Ôzaru would not even be in the equation because supposedly it multiplies the base combat strength by a measly 10, while Super Saiyan multiplies it by 50.

What I'm mean is perhaps, SSJ isn't a multiplier of power, but it instead taps into as Dayspring called it "latent energy" so if it were all brought to the surface, then Gohan would no longer need to transform. That way the old kaioshin did and said makes sense. He never mentions, giving him power to from an outside source, hence "beyond your limits" has to mean, gain more then what you could have as a regular mortal being training all his life.

As for the Oozaru I brought it up, because of it obvious connection to SSJ4. I was basically comparing SSJ4 to SSJ1-3 (just for fun since most don't consider GT cannon, and I can't blame them) I do believe that it's different, in the sense that Oozaru is different, because it dose draw power from a outside source like the moon. While Oozaru might be a measly multiplier I don't think SSJ4 would be, do you?[/quote]

I agree with your description of how Super Saiyajin works. I've always thought it draws out hidden power, especially because of this Kaioshin upgrade and how it's said to work. But all the moon does to a Saiyajin is trigger a transformation when they absorb enough Brute Waves, the moon doesn't give them additional ki. I saw Oozaru as being similar to SSJ, but less efficient. It's an improvement in ki capacity and lets you draw out more of your hidden power. That's how I see it, anyway.

In which case Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 are like taking the best of both forms and increasing your ki capacity beyond the limits of either SSJ or Oozaru alone. In which case the potential power still has to be in there somewhere, I suppose.

All the manga says is that Rou Dai Kaioshin is drawing Gohan's power out, and it takes longer than usual because he has a lot to release. Assuming he added his own power or power from somewhere else is too much of an assumption to me; I try to work within the information we're given with as few assumptions as possible. So far these are the best explanations I've come up with, but they're constantly changing as I find things that conflict with them.