Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:24 am

No, but they are:
1: Removing filler to some degree, and editing the story to make it "Speedy".
2: Rerecording ALL the dialog, there may even be alterations here and there to bring it closer to the manga when need be.
3: Rerecording the old music or doing new music (we dont know which yet)

Like I said though these don't change the series. The anime (Japanese version is pretty much word for word the manga (Japanese version) already. No changes to the dialogue need to be made except to keep up with the edited footage.

4: Calling it a new Series (The words "NEW SERIES" are there big as day in the 15 second TV spot, not to mention Son says "New TV series: Dragon Ball Kai Starts Next Month!)

in fact, you can forget numbers 1-3, 4 is the only important one. they flat out say it's a new series in the Commercial.

They're saying 'Shin Bangumi'. It means new program. Shin Bangumi doesn't mean that they're making a new Dragon Ball series from scratch. Again. Everything still points more to a cropped fillerless Dragon Ball than a redo.

B wrote:Dragon Ball is fun, light-hearted and full of adventure. It should have fun, light-hearted, and adventurous music. Replacing the orignal music would be a bit disappointing, I agree, but if a new score still fits DB's atmosphere, then it's not really a problem with DBK, it's your problem with change.

The idea that it would be impossible to make a score as good as or better than the original is quite frankly, close-minded and well, dumb.

How? Are you ignoring the fact that Dragon Ball Z already has a musical score and has had one for 20 years? If different music was made then it wouldn't feel much like Dragon Ball. Much like how the NA Sparking! games and the dub with dub music are. You didn't see Bandai changing Zeta Gundam's music for the 2005-2006 Movie re-edits, nor did you see Toei change the music in the 2008 special so why would it be changed here?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:42 am

Vekurotto wrote:Like I said though these don't change the series. The anime (Japanese version is pretty much word for word the manga (Japanese version) already. No changes to the dialogue need to be made except to keep up with the edited footage.

That's why I said "when need be".

Vekurotto wrote:They're saying 'Shin Bangumi'. It means new program. Shin Bangumi doesn't mean that they're making a new Dragon Ball series from scratch. Again. Everything still points more to a cropped fillerless Dragon Ball than a redo.

Again, not what I was saying. All I'm saying is Toei is TREATING this like it's a new series. They appear to be classifying it as one, and considering all the changes that appear to be coming, it almost is one. almost.
It's like how every season of the Simpsons has a clipshow episode that's 90% completely unedited clips from old episodes with a very very little bit of new footage to frame them. Those are considered new Episodes entirely.
Or more relevant, in One Piece during the Enies Lobby Arc, they took the Straw Hat's backstories and chopped them up and edited them into a 5 episode set of Character recaps when the shows timeslot changed. They basically did exactly the same thing that they're doing now with DB only they literally presented the clips entirely unchanged besides chopping them up for time. These were presented as entirely new Episodes instead of reruns of the old Episodes. They even factor into the overall episode count.

Bottom line, they're making these changes and presenting the changed version under a completely different title, and they are not in any way discontinuing the original version on DVD, I REALLY don't see what the problem is.

Vekurotto wrote:How? Are you ignoring the fact that Dragon Ball Z already has a musical score and has had one for 20 years? If different music was made then it wouldn't feel much like Dragon Ball. Much like how the NA Sparking! games and the dub with dub music are. You didn't see Bandai changing Zeta Gundam's music for the 2005-2006 Movie re-edits, nor did you see Toei change the music in the 2008 special so why would it be changed here?

Exactly. We don't KNOW yet if it's been changed, so why are you going on such a blaring Crusade against it?
After seeing The 2008 special, I'd be inclined to believe they are rerecording and expanding on the old score, meaning they'll be doing all the old songs again but with some new ones thrown into the mix, but that's just a theory of mine.

But it's like, when Hellsing got it's big redo finally, I was sad to find Yasushi Ishii wasn't coming back to do the score, even though his was brilliant. I was very pleasantly surprised at how good the new score was, I can honestly say I love both now. I have faith If Toei does rescore it they'll get someone who can do the series justice.

B · Post by B » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:44 am

Vekurotto wrote:How? Are you ignoring the fact that Dragon Ball Z already has a musical score and has had one for 20 years?

Yes, I am. As I stated before, what exactly is playing in the background does not matter if the overall feel of the series is left intact. I'm not for or against a change in music, and I find it puzzling you have a preference. And, I'd like to also point out that we don't even know if we're getting new tracks. And if we are, you haven't heard them yet. To blindly say Kikuchi's score is better because it came first, and without this supposed new score to make this comparison, is the DEFINITION of close-minded and dumb.

Vekurotto wrote:If different music was made then it wouldn't feel much like Dragon Ball.

I disagree.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:46 am

Vekurotto wrote:How? Are you ignoring the fact that Dragon Ball Z already has a musical score and has had one for 20 years? If different music was made then it wouldn't feel much like Dragon Ball. Much like how the NA Sparking! games and the dub with dub music are. You didn't see Bandai changing Zeta Gundam's music for the 2005-2006 Movie re-edits, nor did you see Toei change the music in the 2008 special so why would it be changed here?

We can't judge the music until we hear it. I've had it pointed out to me that Dragon Ball Z is actually still on the air on satellite TV in Japan, so if people want to see Chala-head-chala they can just go and watch it there.

And just look at the opening to Budokai 2, it was great. If there's a new opening theme and it's anything like that, I'd be happy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I eat up every new bit of Dragon Ball animation Toei does.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:04 am

B wrote:I disagree.

This is the best thing since Encyclopedia Dramatica! It's like they took the way my brain processes "baaaawww" and turned it into an article!

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:07 am

Kendamu wrote:
B wrote:I disagree.
This is the best thing since Encyclopedia Dramatica! It's like they took the way my brain processes "baaaawww" and turned it into an article!

Careful now. TV-Tropes can permanently ruin television, books and comics for you. Plus cause you to spend hours and hours going from link to link, much like Wikipedia.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:09 am

I disagree.

LOL Turn A Gundam. That was a great series BTW don't know why anybody would hate it.

B wrote:Yes, I am. As I stated before, what exactly is playing in the background does not matter if the overall feel of the series is left intact. I'm not for or against a change in music, and I find it puzzling you have a preference. And, I'd like to also point out that we don't even know if we're getting new tracks. And if we are, you haven't heard them yet. To blindly say Kikuchi's score is better because it came first, and without this supposed new score to make this comparison, is the DEFINITION of close-minded and dumb.

Either you're misreading my question I asked either or you're not understanding me. I said that for the anime the Kikuchi score should be used because it's simply Dragon Ball's music and because Toei has no reason to change the music. Not because Kikuchi's music is better than anything that anybody could ever do, and not because it came first, but because it's the music that Dragon Ball was made to go with in the first place.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:15 am

Bussani wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
B wrote:I disagree.
This is the best thing since Encyclopedia Dramatica! It's like they took the way my brain processes "baaaawww" and turned it into an article!
Careful now. TV-Tropes can permanently ruin television, books and comics for you. Plus cause you to spend hours and hours going from link to link, much like Wikipedia.

Fandom itself already beat TV-Tropes to the punch when it comes to ruining TV, books, and comics for me. Now I'm kind of in recovery trying to learn to relax a little so I can actually enjoy things again.

snaku · Post by **snaku** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:53 am

Vekurotto wrote:I said that for the anime the Kikuchi score should be used because it's simply Dragon Ball's music and because Toei has no reason to change the music. Not because Kikuchi's music is better than anything that anybody could ever do, and not because it came first, but because it's the music that Dragon Ball was made to go with in the first place.

Then Toei also has no reason to redo the animation either.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:59 am

They're putting it on TV in HD. Redoing the voices and music is essential because an HD anime with mono audio would just be weird.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:03 am

By the way, am I understanding correctly? That what might be bad if it was still called Z, is good now that it's called Kai?

I"m not trying to be unreasonable here. I just think that a product is a product, and the name of it is just semantics.

I mean, "It's Kai, not Z, so all change is good" doesn't seem right to me. Rather, I think "It's mostly cropped(cropped better than Funimation, sure, but still cropped), so I'm not completely optimistic about the whole product". I don't think that it's so wrong to be able to say this, regardless of what has been released already or what it's called.

I'm not asking that people SHARE my opinion. I understand the optimism COMPLETELY. But I would like to be allowed to say "Well, they're cropping the original footage" without several demands that I watch the Dragon Boxes, and that negative opinions are invalidated by the existence of said boxes and the new name, and the general consensus that I'm mad.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:07 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:By the way, am I understanding correctly? That what might be bad if it was still called Z, is good now that it's called Kai?

That's not how I'm perceiving it. The way I understood it was:

It's not replacing Dragonball Z, so if it is bad we're not screwed. FUNimation never completed their 4:3 singles and the only choice we have now is their remaster. With Dragonball Kai being advertised as something different than Dragonball Z, it seems as if the DBox singles will still be left on the market for purists who choose Dragonball Z over Dragonball Kai.

If Kai turned out to be a replacement for Z, then this wouldn't be taken so lightly.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:10 am

Kendamu wrote:
Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:By the way, am I understanding correctly? That what might be bad if it was still called Z, is good now that it's called Kai?
That's not how I'm perceiving it. The way I understood it was:

It's not replacing Dragonball Z, so if it is bad we're not screwed. FUNimation never completed their 4:3 singles and the only choice we have now is their remaster. With Dragonball Kai being advertised as something different than Dragonball Z, it seems as if the DBox singles will still be left on the market for purists who choose Dragonball Z over Dragonball Kai.

If Kai turned out to be a replacement for Z, then this wouldn't be taken so lightly.

So, are we not judging Kai in a vacuum, then? Are we basically taking our opinion of all of Toei's other actions into account, rather than rating Kai by itself based on its own merits separate from the Dragon Boxes?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:20 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:By the way, am I understanding correctly? That what might be bad if it was still called Z, is good now that it's called Kai?
That's not how I'm perceiving it. The way I understood it was:

It's not replacing Dragonball Z, so if it is bad we're not screwed. FUNimation never completed their 4:3 singles and the only choice we have now is their remaster. With Dragonball Kai being advertised as something different than Dragonball Z, it seems as if the DBox singles will still be left on the market for purists who choose Dragonball Z over Dragonball Kai.

If Kai turned out to be a replacement for Z, then this wouldn't be taken so lightly.
So, are we not judging Kai in a vacuum, then? Are we basically taking our opinion of all of Toei's other actions into account, rather than rating Kai by itself based on its own merits separate from the Dragon Boxes?

I don't think we are. I think we're judging it as it's own thing while at the same time not freaking out because it's not replacing anything.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:30 am

VegettoEX wrote:Legitimately thinking that a certain product is terrible doesn't inherently mean "bias".

You're 100% right, but that's not what I'm worried about. It's the opposite, thinking that a product is good just because it's from Japan. But I do trust you when you say it won't be getting a Free Pass from you.

MajinVejitaXV wrote:This is literally people going, "Ah-ha! SEE, SEE?! THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING!" Based on 15 seconds. Bravo.

Now hold on there, I seem to recall people jumping down Funimation's throats regarding the quality of the Season Sets from 1 screencap. Anyone remember the hell that broke lose from that 1 Gohan Screencap? I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, quite the opposite. It's just that when FUNi put out that 1 Screencap within 24 Hours we had a Petition with 500 signatures against it and people wanted to have Fukunaga's head on a platter. Meanwhile from Toei we get something similar (Not the same but similar) and it's all "PARTY TIME!!!".

In the end, despite what I'm going on about I am completely in favor of this series being cropped somewhat if needed. I also don't mind a new musical score. Though of course I'd prefer the picture to be un-cropped and contain the original musical score. But I'm not going to throw a shit fit if that ultimately is not true. Someone brought up that the BGM used in the DB Kai Trailer could be a piece from a possible new score. If that's true then I think the music works quite well for DB. I think it could work as Recap Music. But anyway I doubt if Toei changed the music that they'd screw it up.

I just feel pissed off that I got slammed 2 years ago for supporting the FUNi sets and now the general support for the DB Kai footage. Despite Funimation doing a half-ass attempt at this and never giving an Uncut, Uncropped release of the first 67 Episode. I do believe FUNi had good intentions with what they were doing. Trying to bring the series we all know and love into the new generation of TV's. Though it's not what we wanted especially from the first 67 Episodes, I think the concept was nice and well intentioned. And now here we are, getting DragonBall Z from Japan for the new generation of TV viewing. It's a great thing.

Of course it also helps that this is a completely separate product from the original series.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:47 am

It also helps that the DBox singles still seem to be in print as where FUNi never completed their 4:3 singles and stopped printing the ones they had.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:10 am

Kendamu wrote:Fandom itself already beat TV-Tropes to the punch when it comes to ruining TV, books, and comics for me. Now I'm kind of in recovery trying to learn to relax a little so I can actually enjoy things again.

Yeah, I'm the same way. It's hard being a part of a fandom where people will basically drill every single flaw of every single aspect of the series into you.

mysteriousdbzgt · Post by **mysteriousdbzgt** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:53 pm

Hi, I was just wondering if you knew that the anime will be following the original manga. This probably means that the filler episodes will be cropped out. Take a look:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... llow-manga

If this was already reported, please ignore this post and continue with your conversations. Thanks.

XanatosVanBadass · Post by **XanatosVanBadass** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:57 pm

Either you're misreading my question I asked either or you're not understanding me. I said that for the anime the Kikuchi score should be used because it's simply Dragon Ball's music and because Toei has no reason to change the music. Not because Kikuchi's music is better than anything that anybody could ever do, and not because it came first, but because it's the music that Dragon Ball was made to go with in the first place.

Just want to interject this here, Dragon Ball was originally a manga, ya know? They tend to not have to much music in them. So, really the original work isn't defined by its music at ALL really.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:49 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Either you're misreading my question I asked either or you're not understanding me. I said that for the anime the Kikuchi score should be used because it's simply Dragon Ball's music and because Toei has no reason to change the music. Not because Kikuchi's music is better than anything that anybody could ever do, and not because it came first, but because it's the music that Dragon Ball was made to go with in the first place.
Just want to interject this here, Dragon Ball was originally a manga, ya know? They tend to not have to much music in them. So, really the original work isn't defined by its music at ALL really.

And yet, the franchise has come to have a lot of music related to it. In some cases, you just can't say "screw the anime, the manga is all that exists" because it DOESN'T. Who does not identify Cha-La or the majority of Kikuchi's score with Dragon Ball?

I don't think that any new music has to be bad. But it would have to be intermixed with the most iconic bits of the original score(or something that "remixes" those iconic sounds), to make it feel like it's a proper Dragon Ball anime.

Of course, new music can be good too, but it should keep with the general theme of the original music. Dragon Ball IS an old franchise, it IS something iconic. And the original music is part of that image.

Of course, I really doubt that they're going to completely re-do the musical score of Dragon Ball from scratch. But if they did, I wouldn't be happy about it.