Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:03 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:Again, Funi's release DID add to the sides, and did NOT stretch the image. Toei's cropping is only better in that they're going to be selective about what is cropped to help avoid those problematic scenes. And depending on what they're adding, they may re-animate even more problematic bits.

But Funi's release adds the same amount on the sides as Kai.

But I believe they didn't add any actual artwork aside from backgrounds. To be honest, I'd rather see the other side of Kuririn's shoulder than than extra Namekian fields. While neither is exciting as the other, Toei seems to be putting more of an effort on their part. It's also why I find all the outrage on Toei's cropping amusing. Did anyone forget FUNimation's questionable remastering? Yes, cropping should be inexcusable, but there's just so many other things that I'm generally looking forward to with Kai. Heck, it looks more like a quality product when compared to FUNi's Z sets.

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:30 am

Bussani wrote:
Velasa wrote:AKA, stuff that was never meant to be there in the first place. as opposed to... the top and bottom of the screen.

So it's a moot point by now. But the same way I don't believe in widescreen movies cropped into fullscreen, I'll never go for fullscreen tv shows cropped into widescreen. It's really not that much of a hardship to live with black on either side of the screen to get the intended aspect ratio. I'll never understand why it's nessicary to do.
Technically, if I'm right in imagining how the film stock works, none of it was 'meant to' be there. It was just cropped to 4:3 because that was the norm back then. In the process they still cut off some of the top and bottom of the original stock (if you look at one of Snaku's comparisons, there's actually extra video at the top as well as the sides). These days the normal for anime is a widescreen rario I think? So it sort of makes sense to re-crop it that way for HDTV, I guess.

The film stock probably was made with 4:3 in mind though, so they probably had some idea of what they would be keeping. Oh well.

From Dragon Ball Wikia

Original Film Print

FUNimation's Remasterd Boxset

Dragon Box needed

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:35 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote: Dragon Box needed

I hope you're aware this shot is not representative at all?

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:44 am

sangofe wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote: Dragon Box needed
I hope you're aware this shot is not representative at all?

I wanted to point out that there is a picture that shows the whole footage from the original film, and I asked for a picture from the Dragon Box release to see how much of it was lost when they cropped it to get aired in a 4:3 format

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:34 pm

FUNi blurred it so much.

It makes me vomit.

I KNOW WE ALREADY COVERED THIS.

Levlik · Post by **Levlik** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:07 pm

Sebastian (SB) wrote:
Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:Again, Funi's release DID add to the sides, and did NOT stretch the image. Toei's cropping is only better in that they're going to be selective about what is cropped to help avoid those problematic scenes. And depending on what they're adding, they may re-animate even more problematic bits.

But Funi's release adds the same amount on the sides as Kai.
But I believe they didn't add any actual artwork aside from backgrounds. To be honest, I'd rather see the other side of Kuririn's shoulder than than extra Namekian fields. While neither is exciting as the other, Toei seems to be putting more of an effort on their part. It's also why I find all the outrage on Toei's cropping amusing. Did anyone forget FUNimation's questionable remastering? Yes, cropping should be inexcusable, but there's just so many other things that I'm generally looking forward to with Kai. Heck, it looks more like a quality product when compared to FUNi's Z sets.

It's the same footage, both background and cels. The only difference is selected cropping. According to the commercial, nothing new has been added. It seems to have been zoomed out at the same level of Funimation's sets.

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:56 pm

Levlik wrote:According the commercial nothing new has been added

Did* you ever carefully read the news? It said scenes wasted-wisher had worked on would have new animation added. You're neither proving, or dissproving anything with your post.

Levlik · Post by **Levlik** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:22 pm

sangofe wrote:
Levlik wrote:According the commercial nothing new has been added
Did* you ever carefully read the news? It said scenes wasted-wisher had worked on would have new animation added. You're neither proving, or dissproving anything with your post.

What are you talking about? Sebastion thought that Funimation's sets did not add any previously unseen cel footage in comparision to Kai, which is untrue, as we see the same amount of addition to the sides in Kai as we do on the Season sets, and while what you say may be true, again, according to the commercial, which is the only footage of Kai we've seen so far, nothing new has been added to the side in any scenes shown aside from selective cropping.

That's all my post was saying.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:35 pm

We don't know to what extent things will be changed, we can't exactly praise that yet. It's likely, though, that the majority of this is just cropped Dragon Ball, just like Funi's remastered sets. The CROPPING OF EXISTING FOOTAGE is the same, except Toei's is selective and Funi's was just plain centered.

Funi cropped. They cropped down the center the whole way through. But they didn't, on top of this, stretch the 4:3 image.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:45 pm

Levlik wrote:
Sebastian (SB) wrote:
Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:Again, Funi's release DID add to the sides, and did NOT stretch the image. Toei's cropping is only better in that they're going to be selective about what is cropped to help avoid those problematic scenes. And depending on what they're adding, they may re-animate even more problematic bits.

But Funi's release adds the same amount on the sides as Kai.
But I believe they didn't add any actual artwork aside from backgrounds. To be honest, I'd rather see the other side of Kuririn's shoulder than than extra Namekian fields. While neither is exciting as the other, Toei seems to be putting more of an effort on their part. It's also why I find all the outrage on Toei's cropping amusing. Did anyone forget FUNimation's questionable remastering? Yes, cropping should be inexcusable, but there's just so many other things that I'm generally looking forward to with Kai. Heck, it looks more like a quality product when compared to FUNi's Z sets.
It's the same footage, both background and cels. The only difference is selected cropping. According to the commercial, nothing new has been added. It seems to have been zoomed out at the same level of Funimation's sets.

I like the FUNimation shot better. Much better.

Don't really care if it's not "supposed" to be like that.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:55 pm

JAPPO wrote: I like the FUNimation shot better. Much better.

Don't really care if it's not "supposed" to be like that.

You do have to remember, of course, that this is one frame out of...what? 24 per second of animation?

Not that it matters too much. But I do like that Funimation's pan kept Kuririn's "Kame" symbol. The top of Goku's hair isn't really what I'd focus on myself.

Though, if I was doing it, I'd just keep the intended 4:3 aspect ratio.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:36 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
JAPPO wrote: I like the FUNimation shot better. Much better.

Don't really care if it's not "supposed" to be like that.
You do have to remember, of course, that this is one frame out of...what? 24 per second of animation?

Not that it matters too much. But I do like that Funimation's pan kept Kuririn's "Kame" symbol. The top of Goku's hair isn't really what I'd focus on myself.

Though, if I was doing it, I'd just keep the intended 4:3 aspect ratio.

It looked like the Kai shot intended to keep the character's faces roughly in then center of the shot, since that's meant to be the focus I suppose. Might have been different in the 4:3 of course, but at this aspect ratio it might have been what they decided to do.

I like the old colors just fine. I'm a big fan of old anime to begin with. But Kai's colors do make the show look shiny and new. I can't complain.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:42 pm

I like Kai's colors. I especially like the selective-widescreen crop that they have done. If this is released on Blu-Ray. I'm totally getting it... And also a Blu-Ray player... And also an HDTV... On second thought, maybe I'll wait a while.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:32 pm

I just wanna say I like Toei's crop much more. Because, after all, they have full access to notes and whatnot that they can take into consideration when choosing how to crop.

Not to mention the colors are just spectacular.

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:53 pm

Remember that we do not know what the season sets transfer looks like in it native 1080p yet, but yes Kai's colors do look very nice and make the show look a lot younger.

Ducard · Post by **Ducard** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:58 pm

Footage just looks ok IMO. I like how clean it looks but I'm not a big fan of giving everything bright-as-possible colors.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:33 pm

I like brighter pastel colors, myself. I like the color of Goku and Krillin's clothing in Kai. But I like Bulma's hair better in the season set capture. I dislike both versions of Roshi's shirt.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:09 pm

I personally think both are a little too extreme... one way too dark, and the other's too vibrant for my taste. There oughta be a better color balance in BOTH of them

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:18 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:I like brighter pastel colors, myself. I like the color of Goku and Krillin's clothing in Kai. But I like Bulma's hair better in the season set capture. I dislike both versions of Roshi's shirt.

Now here's a man with a good taste for aesthetics.

I bet blue's your favorite color, right?

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:43 pm

bkev wrote:I personally think both are a little too extreme... one way too dark, and the other's too vibrant for my taste. There oughta be a better color balance in BOTH of them

Agreed. The selling point of Kai being in HD has stopped being appealing to me. My guess is the concept behind it is to introduce younger audiences to the show, by making it look newer and therefore more accessible to them.

The editing choices will still be interesting, but in regards to the the frame size and colors, well, there’re the D.Boxes for that.