Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:00 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:I like brighter pastel colors, myself. I like the color of Goku and Krillin's clothing in Kai. But I like Bulma's hair better in the season set capture. I dislike both versions of Roshi's shirt.
Now here's a man with a good taste for aesthetics.

I bet blue's your favorite color, right?

Haha, thanks! Actually my favorite color is orange. Why'd you assume it was blue? Is that yours?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:05 pm

If Toei gets the coloring right for the "Season 2" portion of the show and doesn't have disappearing lines, I'm in total support of the release.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:09 pm

Yep, blue's always been my favorite color. Though honestly, pretty much all colors can be equally attractive when used in the right way; Goku's orange gis are easily more appealing than Goku's blue clothes at the beginning of Dragon Ball.

The worst coloring choice of all, though, is the yellow hair of a Super Saiyan. So ugly and boring. They look much better in their black-haired base forms.

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:18 pm

I don't know a whole lot about film editing, so someone please fill me in here. Is it possible to actually make Dragon Ball, a show made long before HD was invented, look HD? Can you actually take the footage, and make it look like it was MADE for HD? Or is it just going to be "upscaled" the same way a PS3 upscales PS2 games? That being, making the picture slightly sharper, but not actually making it HD at all.

Obviously, no matter what TV and resolution you're watching it on, they can't make the original DB look like the Jump special without adding to the footage, but what CAN they do? Does anybody have experience with this kind of thing to speculate?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:36 pm

ImmortalSandwich wrote:I don't know a whole lot about film editing, so someone please fill me in here. Is it possible to actually make Dragon Ball, a show made long before HD was invented, look HD? Can you actually take the footage, and make it look like it was MADE for HD? Or is it just going to be "upscaled" the same way a PS3 upscales PS2 games? That being, making the picture slightly sharper, but not actually making it HD at all.

The series can be made sharper based on what resolution it's telecined at, it's not a matter of upscaling like you're referring to (upscaling is done by interpolation, a fancy term for an algorithm guessing, in this case, where to insert pixels when blowing up a picture based on the original image). The problem is, eventually you get to a point where you're not so much gaining detail as exposing the limitations of the original film medium. 16mm, which is what DragonBall was photographed onto, is an economical (read: cheap) medium that shows moderate grain even at DVD resolutions. As resolution increases, you'll gain sharpness and detail to a degree, but the grain with 16mm film will become more noticeable to the point of being distracting.

The only way to combat this, and not lose detail, would be to painstakingly digitally repaint every frame. The less expensive, more common way is to apply Digital Video Noise Reduction (DVNR). Sadly, while this conceals some grain, it also blurs out detail which can make an HD master worthless in the eyes of many aficionados.

Obviously, no matter what TV and resolution you're watching it on, they can't make the original DB look like the Jump special without adding to the footage, but what CAN they do? Does anybody have experience with this kind of thing to speculate?

Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing they could do is digitally repaint the whole series as I stated. Even then, the difference in animation styles among other things would still stop DragonBall Kai from looking like the Jump Special, since the original series was a cel-based animation and the new special was digitally animated.

-Corey

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:57 pm

Kai Bulma's hair is more intune with the look of Kai, though, so I feel comfortable with it.

RyujiOtogi · Post by **RyujiOtogi** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:15 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
ImmortalSandwich wrote:I don't know a whole lot about film editing, so someone please fill me in here. Is it possible to actually make Dragon Ball, a show made long before HD was invented, look HD? Can you actually take the footage, and make it look like it was MADE for HD? Or is it just going to be "upscaled" the same way a PS3 upscales PS2 games? That being, making the picture slightly sharper, but not actually making it HD at all.
The series can be made sharper based on what resolution it's telecined at, it's not a matter of upscaling like you're referring to (upscaling is done by interpolation, a fancy term for an algorithm guessing, in this case, where to insert pixels when blowing up a picture based on the original image). The problem is, eventually you get to a point where you're not so much gaining detail as exposing the limitations of the original film medium. 16mm, which is what DragonBall was photographed onto, is an economical (read: cheap) medium that shows moderate grain even at DVD resolutions. As resolution increases, you'll gain sharpness and detail to a degree, but the grain with 16mm film will become more noticeable to the point of being distracting.

The only way to combat this, and not lose detail, would be to painstakingly digitally repaint every frame. The less expensive, more common way is to apply Digital Video Noise Reduction (DVNR). Sadly, while this conceals some grain, it also blurs out detail which can make an HD master worthless in the eyes of many aficionados.

Obviously, no matter what TV and resolution you're watching it on, they can't make the original DB look like the Jump special without adding to the footage, but what CAN they do? Does anybody have experience with this kind of thing to speculate?
Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing they could do is digitally repaint the whole series as I stated. Even then, the difference in animation styles among other things would still stop DragonBall Kai from looking like the Jump Special, since the original series was a cel-based animation and the new special was digitally animated.

-Corey

So are you saying it is likely that Toei will use DVNR to remaster the footage? If so, that really stinks...

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:24 am

RyujiOtogi wrote:So are you saying it is likely that Toei will use DVNR to remaster the footage? If so, that really stinks...

I can only speculate. It looks like they're recoloring things, but I may just be trying to be optimistic. Combined with the report that additional footage is being animated to expand certain scenes to the 16:9 aspect ratio, it would almost seem they would have to recolor the scenes to ensure a seamless integration. Still, the footage looks a bit blurry, like it's been DVNR'd (which, this is just a YouTube video I'm basing all of this off of)...

-Corey

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:29 am

I would have been really happy if they had just re animated the entire series with the style of the Jump special (save for the super-shiny super saiyan hair). It just would have made so much more sense than this. On top of that, this series just completely crushes any possibilities of that happening within the foreseeable future.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:05 am

Innagadadavida wrote:I would have been really happy if they had just re animated the entire series with the style of the Jump special (save for the super-shiny super saiyan hair). It just would have made so much more sense than this. On top of that, this series just completely crushes any possibilities of that happening within the foreseeable future.

Yes, but at least it raises the possibility of things like Dragon Ball Kai movies and such.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:25 am

I have some pieces of news.

According to the oficcial website of Toshio Furukawa, the Seiyu for Piccolo, they are going to record the voices for the first episode of Dragon Ball Kai today.
http://www.topio.jp/index.htm

And Naotoshi Shida, an animator who did keyframes for DBZ, says that he has finished the keyframes for the ending (outro) of Dragon Ball Kai.
http://0211-1017.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-03-03-1

Zenkai Power · Post by **Zenkai Power** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:01 am

kei17 wrote:I have some pieces of news.

According to the oficcial website of Toshio Furukawa, the Seiyu for Piccolo, they are going to record the voices for the first episode of Dragon Ball Kai today.
http://www.topio.jp/index.htm

And Naotoshi Shida, an animator who did keyframes for DBZ, says that he has finished the keyframes for the ending of Dragon Ball Kai.
http://0211-1017.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-03-03-1

Does this mean a new ending?!!

Like Toriyama's new ending? Why else would he be doing key frame animation? How could they make it look like cel animation or will it just suddenly look like the 2008 special?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:12 am

Wait, ending as in the ending of the series or ending as in the new ED that'll replace Zenkai Power?

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:17 am

Zenkai Power wrote:Does this mean a new ending?!! Like Toriyama's new ending? Why else would he be doing key frame animation? How could they make it look like cel animation or will it just suddenly look like the 2008 special?

Chuquita wrote:Wait, ending as in the ending of the series or ending as in the new ED that'll replace Zenkai Power?

Oh, sorry for confusing you. I just meant the new outro.

B · Post by B » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:22 am

It's most likely the ED. Why would we be jumping ahead to the 28th Budokai, assuming we're doing all of Z here?

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:27 am

It would be cool though if at the end of the series we'd get Toriyama's extra ending thing

If they want to make it more in tune with the manga then THAT's what they should do!

That would mean animating a whole nother minute or something. And they would have to do it in the original style and keep it consistant :p

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:09 am

Ah, I see they're cutting the recording a little close, aren't they? Even though it'll be ADR they're still going to be able to play off each other as well?

hotrod28 · Post by **hotrod28** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:36 pm

Dr. Casey wrote: The worst coloring choice of all, though, is the yellow hair of a Super Saiyan. So ugly and boring. They look much better in their black-haired base forms.

So do you like the "Genji" super saiyan, the one in the otherworld tournament saga where Goku retains his black hair as a super saiyan? I really loved that design and look. And I wonder if TOEI did it to poke fun at their mistake in movie 4.

On topic, can anyone speculate how they will handle scenes changed in the anime from the manga? Like not specific filler, I mean scenes changed but can't be edited out.

For example, the scene in the anime where Gohan becomes a super saiyan. I understand that in the manga, he just becomes a super saiyan after hearing Goku's words of encouragement. In the anime, Goku challenges him with the kamehama and then there's the whole flashback ordeal, and that's how Gohan is shown to achieve super saiyan. How does TOEI go about using this scene, because it does not adhere to the manga, but they can most certainly not cut out such an important story element. Might they by any chance, have to animate a new scene to adhere to the manga?

biohazard · Post by **biohazard** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:51 pm

I don't think remove most of the filler means to be 100% identical to the manga. So, I guess they will keep those changes. We'll have to wait and see...

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:30 pm

The manga never even showed Gohan transform. That scene never actually replaced a scene from the manga.

I'd like to see Freeza kill Cargot.