Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:40 pm

So..uh, hypothetically speaking: Where would one SEE this movie? I don't expect any random links to go popping up in my PM box or anthing...

...just sayin...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:52 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:It's because I think that the idea of changing a character's core personality is wrong when it comes to adaptation. As such, I try to discourage people from celebrating such action, as do many others.

So essentially you're saying that he isn't allowed to like (or you're discouraging him from liking) the movie Goku because...well, let me just stop you right there. As much as you disagree with him (and I probably agree with you), you can't tell him that he can't like it or call him less of a fan for doing so.

I mean, the Professor says this all the time, but a lot of people don't like Vegeta. If they made Vegeta nicer in a live action version, and you liked him better that way, would you be wrong? I bet people would be more forgiving if it was Vegeta, but Goku; oh God they butchered him!

Which maybe they did, but that's beside the point.

You have every right to your opinion, but people who disagree with your fundamental idea that this personality change is acceptable are going to say what's on their mind. Mostly because we see, time and time again, characters utterly mis-portrayed in other medias.

Discouraging people from liking something is going a bit further than disagreeing.

Edit: Oh yeah, Professor, you mentioned about 'airbending'. That does make sense. I said in one of these threads earlier how the concept of ki was based on 'breath' when explaining why it might look like smoke or mist. Interesting theory.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:49 pm

Tweaker wrote:Jumping in the middle of the discussion here, but I just watched the movie.

And I hated it. A lot. I felt that the relation to Dragon Ball that the movie had was extremely marginal at best, and the elements that were included were sparsely so, and even then were done in a skewered context. The story was hard and confusing the follow, the pacing was all out of whack, and the acting was atrocious--especially on Chatwin's part. Absolutely deplorable.

For the record, this isn't an invitation to start a flamewar about how people think my opinion is "wrong"; I just thought I'd share my thoughts on the movie.

Your opinion is wrong.

I'll agree about the pacing, but the acting was not atrocious. It was rather standard/mediocre, It wasn't like the characters stared at the camera and spouted off their lines monotonously(And yes I have seen movies like this) . There are only two scenes in the movie that stand out as "bad" to me, the scene with the Fulum, and the Ending Face off with Chi Chi.

I actually liked the Set up to the KameHameHa. Some people were like "uh it's gay like the Macarana!" I thought it looked like a cool Taichi sequence.

I've concluded that the majority of people who hate this movie hate it because they want to hate it, not because it's bad, and they will come up with reasons to justify there hate just so they can hate it.

The movie has it's problems, but it's fun and entertaining, albeit way too short.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:00 pm

omegacwa wrote:I've concluded that the majority of people who hate this movie hate it because they want to hate it, not because it's bad, and they will come up with reasons to justify there hate just so they can hate it.

I agree. I think most are very bias when they walk into the theater. It's not unreasonable though, all things considered.

B · Post by B » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:08 pm

omegacwa wrote:I've concluded that the majority of people who hate this movie hate it because they want to hate it, not because it's bad, and they will come up with reasons to justify there hate just so they can hate it.

I have found this works both ways; there are also people who like it because they're trying incredbly hard to like it, no matter how many valid flaws are presented to them.

Though Group A is obviously the majority.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:11 pm

Many people claim they are being unbiased, but there not. I can tell you my opinion of the movie truly was unbiased. I kept an open mind during the whole build up from way back in 2007, I took the good and the bad, and yes some things about the movie did piss me off, but in the end, I was fine with the movie.

It was a Mediocre film, which most likely ran way under budget. Was it a horrible movie, no, was it the worst movie ever, far from it, yet people on here and else where are making out to be just because of there retarded fanboy love. I love DB/Z and some of GT. I have spent thousands of dollars on my collection over the years, there is no denying my dedication. Does it mean I am stupid/or not a "true fan" because I thought the movie was ok, yeah just ok not awesome, fuck no.

Look, the movie is silly, ill paced, but it knows it is. It doesn't take itself seriously, and that's good. I don't take the movie seriously, and you know what, I liked it.

You know what other movie suffers from similar problems, especially the pacing, X-men 1, and it got a an awesome sequel, and a decent third film, so who knows, maybe Dragonball Evolution 2 will be what X-men 2 was to X-men 1.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:15 pm

omegacwa wrote:Many people claim they are being unbiased, but there not. I can tell you my opinion of the movie truly was unbiased. I kept an open mind during the whole build up from way back in 2007, I took the good and the bad, and yes some things about the movie did piss me off, but in the end, I was fine with the movie.

What's with this whole "You're being biased, despite what you say? I, on the other hand, am being unbiased." shtick that pretty much everyone is going through?

It's all about personal preferences. Some people can't accept this movie being called Dragon Ball, some can't accept this as a movie at all. Some accept this as a movie and some accept it as a Dragon Ball movie. That's all there is to it. Obviously there will be things that people do not like that other do, and vice-versa.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:16 pm

I highly dislike the film in question because it shows far too little respect for the original, has pretty boring action scenes, and is terribly paced and acted out by actors who sound as if they were told to stretch out lines to make up for the lines they DID rush through.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Tsukento wrote:
omegacwa wrote:Many people claim they are being unbiased, but there not. I can tell you my opinion of the movie truly was unbiased. I kept an open mind during the whole build up from way back in 2007, I took the good and the bad, and yes some things about the movie did piss me off, but in the end, I was fine with the movie.
What's with this whole "You're being biased, despite what you say? I, on the other hand, am being unbiased." shtick that pretty much everyone is going through?

It's all about personal preferences. Some people can't accept this movie being called Dragon Ball, some can't accept this as a movie at all. Some accept this as a movie and some accept it as a Dragon Ball movie. That's all there is to it. Obviously there will be things that people do not like that other do, and vice-versa.

I guess what I am trying to say is people who were apposed to the movie from the get go, and hated on it no matter what we heard about it, now claim that they are going to watch the movie with an unbiased opinion and no fanboyish thoughts.

But how could you do that when you have spent over a year hating on the movie. You can't.

I, on the other hand have been a noted, unbiased person on this board(I think I have made that clear over the past year, I don't feel like digging up examples). I have pointed out stuff I liked, and stuff I didn't. But because I didn't spend over a year hating everything about the movie, I ended up enjoying it. And as I said, the movie has it's problems, but it was still enjoyable. It still seems liked most people hating on this movie, hate it for the same reasons they did back in 2007.

And anyone who gives it 1 star on IMDB is being completely biased beyond belief. The movie in no way deserves a 1. It is a solid 5 out of ten, 2 out of 4, and so on. It is just ok, decent, Mediocre, whatever you want to say. But it is certainly not Blackenstien, Manos the Hands of Fate, Epic Movie, The Real Cancun, Big Momma's House, Soul Plane, Meet the Spartans, Son of the Mask, and so on.

Cypher · Post by **Cypher** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:27 pm

It's worth noting that an accusation of 'bias' is universally recognised as one of, if not the most effective ad hominem to undermine someone's argument without having to actually address their points (i.e. those of an argument that you disagree with) Just saying; I'm not accusing you, Omegacwa.

snaku · Post by **snaku** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:27 pm

omegacwa wrote:You know what other movie suffers from similar problems, especially the pacing, X-men 1, and it got a an awesome sequel, and a decent third film, so who knows, maybe Dragonball Evolution 2 will be what X-men 2 was to X-men 1.

A sequel will need a change in the creative team if you're hoping for that sort of leap in quality.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:37 pm

Cypher wrote:It's worth noting that an accusation of 'bias' is universally recognised as one of, if not the most effective ad hominem to undermine someone's argument without having to actually address their points (i.e. those of an argument that you disagree with)

Quite frankly, this is exactly what I see each and every time someone flies in to somehow "defend" the movie. They blindly "defend" the entity as a whole and completely miss that it's not ALWAYS the movie as a whole that's being nit-picked, but rather certain parts of it.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:49 pm

There isn't a single person on this board who isn't biased to some extent, one way or the other.

And when you proclaim yourself "truly unbiased" while elaborating on the year of invested interest you've had in the movie and pinning criticism on "retarded fanboy love", you're kind of contradicting yourself.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:52 pm

omegacwa wrote:I, on the other hand have been a noted, unbiased person on this board(I think I have made that clear over the past year, I don't feel like digging up examples). I have pointed out stuff I liked, and stuff I didn't. But because I didn't spend over a year hating everything about the movie, I ended up enjoying it. And as I said, the movie has it's problems, but it was still enjoyable. It still seems liked most people hating on this movie, hate it for the same reasons they did back in 2007.

neutrality /= unbias

The only possible way somebody can not be bias is if they had heard nothing about the film, saw no images from the film, and had not knowledge of the film existing prior to walking into the theater.

Then of course, there are two camps within that group - fans and non-fans.

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:59 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:You were rather rude about it though. You basically treated him like he was stupid for believing that.

I don't support adapting material and not keeping core fundamentals. Thusly, I see his support as fundamentally detrimental to the future of the portrayal of works in multi-media.

Bussani wrote:So essentially you're saying that he isn't allowed to like (or you're discouraging him from liking) the movie Goku because...well, let me just stop you right there. As much as you disagree with him (and I probably agree with you), you can't tell him that he can't like it or call him less of a fan for doing so.

I mean, the Professor says this all the time, but a lot of people don't like Vegeta. If they made Vegeta nicer in a live action version, and you liked him better that way, would you be wrong? I bet people would be more forgiving if it was Vegeta, but Goku; oh God they butchered him!

Which maybe they did, but that's beside the point.

You have every right to your opinion, but people who disagree with your fundamental idea that this personality change is acceptable are going to say what's on their mind. Mostly because we see, time and time again, characters utterly mis-portrayed in other medias.
Discouraging people from liking something is going a bit further than disagreeing.

Please, don't put words in my mouth. I did not say he shouldn't be allowed to feel any way he wants. I didn't say people should stop him from doing so. But as I do not approve of how they adapted the character, along with the rest of it, I am of COURSE going to discourage him from supporting what is a drastically bad movie and a terrible interpretation of the franchise as a whole.

Do I think he's a bad person for liking it? No. Do I think he's stupid? Not really, but I find his tastes questionable. Do I think he's less of a fan? I'm not even touching that one.

I merely feel that the movie should have kept Goku his original character instead of ruining what the entire franchise was built upon to be more "relevant." I disagree with his idea that this was a good idea and I'm going to say that, however I can, because I have different idea of how things should have been handled.

And as for Vegeta? Well, let's look at it this way. I don't approve of any of the OTHER characters changes, so WHY would I approve of a change for a huge character like Vegeta? Why would you assume that, anyway?

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:59 pm

Well, then I guess I was neutral. "Truly Neutral"

Also I would like to say that the movies pacing reminded me of reading a comic, but someone else is turning the pages. So you only have the time they give you to take in all the stuff on the page.

If the American release really is 15-20 minutes longer, I can only see this as a positive thing.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:02 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:You were rather rude about it though. You basically treated him like he was stupid for believing that.
I don't support of adapting material and not keeping core fundamentals. Thusly, I see his support as fundamentally detrimental to the future of the portrayal of works in multi-media.

I don't see that as a legitimate excuse for replying in the way that you did. Although, that wasn't the first time I've noticed you being generally condescending.

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:06 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
KaiserNeko wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:You were rather rude about it though. You basically treated him like he was stupid for believing that.
I don't support of adapting material and not keeping core fundamentals. Thusly, I see his support as fundamentally detrimental to the future of the portrayal of works in multi-media.
I don't see that as a legitimate excuse for replying in the way that you did.

Well, pardon me for being a bit frank. I didn't call him any names, I didn't insult his intelligence, but I flat-out stated how I feel about this. Changing Goku's character ruins a core fundamental of the show and the franchise itself, I plainly do not agree with his 'supporting' their decision.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:07 pm

The film alienates most fans while provides such terrible writting and acting I highly doubt Joe Public is going to see the film once, let alone multiple times like fans not scorned would.

Not trying to be elitist or call anyone less of a fan, but hey, let's look at what we got here: long times fans of who would love to have a great LA film but are now so turned off by the film they're unlikely to watch the current one. Although I could very well be speaking only for myself. I know I myself am very weary of buying the film on DVD, let alone seeing it in theaters.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:07 pm

omegacwa wrote:Well, then I guess I was neutral.

All I've seen from you thus far begs to differ, unless it's somehow possible to be "neutral" while you write people off as "biased" and "haters" every time they bring up a legitimate criticism of the film.