Don't you just hate it when people think DB is for kids...

B · Post by B » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:46 pm

The funny thing is that DBZ is one of the few shonen series FUNi has.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:36 pm

Hell yes, Dragon Balls for kids. is it REALLY any worse then anything the US and the UK aim at children.

In the 80s, we had cartoons showing a womans boob, in the same naked undetailed style of goku's wee wee (Cheetara, Thundercats episode 1). We had a villain in the same show who called himself a *shock* demon priest. We had Transformers which questioned the role of what a god is (the god gambit). We had He Man and the Masters of the Universe deal with what if He Man accidentally killed someone (it was a trick, but it dealt with the issue regardless). We had comic books, then aimed at children about racism (x men), responsibility (Spiderman), and family (Fantastic 4).

There was a time we didn't treat children like retards, and under that standard, there's nothing that makes Dragon Ball an adults show.

Somewhere in the mid 90s we suddenly decided that we needed to shield children to a ridiculous degree. Certainly, they don't need to see hentai or anything. But something like Dragon Ball is harmless to kids.

To those of you in the UK I have one major point about a show with violence and sex that was aimed at children there. Maybe you know of it...

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:50 pm

You'd say Tom and Jerry is for kids right?

Well in passing through channels, I landed on Cartoon Network, where they were playing Tom and Jerry. But it wasn't the classic, it looks like they redid the cartoon or something. So...it was them going to Mars or something and then there was a Martian invasion of Earth. So it had a space shuttle commander standing there with a bunch of people and they saw the Martians and made fun of them because they were so tiny and the Martian...zapped some guy and he literally turned to dust. The commander ran over and started trying to build the ashes back up, but couldn't. The Martians proceeded to zap a bunch of people into dust before...I don't even remember how it ended. The point is, that's a direct reference to death and killing in a CHILDREN'S CARTOON. Nobody would say that Tom and Jerry is for older, sophisticated people. Neither is DBZ.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:55 pm

There was a new Tom & Jerry that used to air on Kids WB before it stopped being the WB. It's rather a dumb show. But either way, we've had references to death in older shows.

Let's look at Robotech when it aired in the 80s. They had to censor a bit from the Macross portions of the series, but it was still surprisingly lenient with what they did allow. Characters still died on screen and there was a bit of perversion once in a while. And this was on syndication by HARMONY GOLD.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:47 pm

You know, it may just be because I view all super science-fiction to that extent to be for kids. I mean look at Robocop. It was rated freaking R! It had cursing and shooting and violence and death and the whole nine yards... But it's not a serious enough movie for me to say that it was for adults. Because as a kid, I went nuts for it, but when I look at it now, I go, "Eh..." I'm still a fan of it, but it's not like, "OH MY GOD!!!" anymore. I have all three on DVD and I like to watch from time to time, but as a kid, I was so into it, that quite frankly, the killing and all that, was cool to me. I was never sheltered or raised in a bubble. But I guess today's kids are. But then again, Dragon Ball Z isn't "today", it was "back then". right now kids have Yu-Gi-Oh and still have the on-going series that will never die known as Pokemon and whatnot. Like you cannot convince me that Yu-Yu-Hakusho or Naruto are for adults. They're kids' shows to me, and they have stuff just like Dragon Ball! While Dragon Ball had violence, it was never truly realistic. It was beams of light flying back and forth. Yeah, had blood, but so what? Batman The Animated Series had blood as well, especially Season 4 where it seemed like there was someone bleeding in every episode. Granted, not like DBZ blood, but DBZ blood wasn't so crazy either. Most of the time it was just from the mouth or above the eye or something. It would mostly be like dust/burn marks or something. You know what I mean.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:33 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:You know, it may just be because I view all super science-fiction to that extent to be for kids. I mean look at Robocop. It was rated freaking R! It had cursing and shooting and violence and death and the whole nine yards... But it's not a serious enough movie for me to say that it was for adults. Because as a kid, I went nuts for it, but when I look at it now, I go, "Eh..." I'm still a fan of it, but it's not like, "OH MY GOD!!!" anymore. I have all three on DVD and I like to watch from time to time, but as a kid, I was so into it, that quite frankly, the killing and all that, was cool to me. I was never sheltered or raised in a bubble. But I guess today's kids are. But then again, Dragon Ball Z isn't "today", it was "back then". right now kids have Yu-Gi-Oh and still have the on-going series that will never die known as Pokemon and whatnot. Like you cannot convince me that Yu-Yu-Hakusho or Naruto are for adults. They're kids' shows to me, and they have stuff just like Dragon Ball! While Dragon Ball had violence, it was never truly realistic. It was beams of light flying back and forth. Yeah, had blood, but so what? Batman The Animated Series had blood as well, especially Season 4 where it seemed like there was someone bleeding in every episode. Granted, not like DBZ blood, but DBZ blood wasn't so crazy either. Most of the time it was just from the mouth or above the eye or something. It would mostly be like dust/burn marks or something. You know what I mean.

I know what you mean. Kids love blood and ridiculous violence. I sure did, and I turned out okay.

*Goes back to dissecting Taku in the IRC channel.*

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:01 am

laserkid wrote:To those of you in the UK I have one major point about a show with violence and sex that was aimed at children there. Maybe you know of it...

When in Doctor Who is there ever sex? :S There's sex in Torchwood, but that IS an adult show. Violence, yes, but in comparison to Dragonball, not that much.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:12 am

worldmonsters wrote:When in Doctor Who is there ever sex? :S There's sex in Torchwood, but that IS an adult show. Violence, yes, but in comparison to Dragonball, not that much.

He probably means just the concept of it being brought up. Which happened a lot when Jack joined in.

Can't think of any older episodes (from before the revamp type thing) that had anything like that in it...but quite a few of the novels do.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:57 am

well you never see direct sex in Doctor Who, but they aren't afraid to talk about or imply it either, which is at about the same level thet Dragon Ball has it. It's not like we see Vegeta and Bulma having hot action.

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:00 am

laserkid wrote:well you never see direct sex in Doctor Who, but they aren't afraid to talk about or imply it either, which is at about the same level thet Dragon Ball has it. It's not like we see Vegeta and Bulma having hot action.

Exactly, but there are loads more anime like that :p I just don't see why Doctor Who is suddenly the bad guy? XD And they don't imply it a lot anyway.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:49 am

Who said Doctor Who was bad? I was using it as a refference to a UK kids show. Which by refference points out it is no better or worse then Dragonball, thus showing Dragonball too is a kids show.

Also if by "they don't imply sex a lot" you mean "every episode" I agree with you.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:51 am

Tsukento wrote:There was a new Tom & Jerry that used to air on Kids WB before it stopped being the WB. It's rather a dumb show. But either way, we've had references to death in older shows.

Let's look at Robotech when it aired in the 80s. They had to censor a bit from the Macross portions of the series, but it was still surprisingly lenient with what they did allow. Characters still died on screen and there was a bit of perversion once in a while. And this was on syndication by HARMONY GOLD.

In this exact same type of situation, does anyone here remember Gargoyles?
Not only was the show very mature for a kid's show, but it had a really good episode about guns. Basically what happens is, one of the Gargoyles who isn't familiar with modern technology thinks Elisa's gun is cool, so he plays around with it, twirling it on his finger and doing the old "You talking to me" kinda cliche gun stuff. all seems well until he accidentally shoots Elisa. it showed her get shot, and it showed her lie in a puddle of her own blood. Not only this though, but in the end it had a really really good message for kids. DO NOT PLAY WITH GUNS!! there was even the stereotypical scene where Broadway (the Gargoyle who did the accidental shooting) had one of those "what did I learn" moments, but Elisa almost DIED. she was in a hospital bed and everything, and Broadway had to face what he'd done and there was a lot of Drama, and this was not only a Kid's show, but it was DISNEY!!

What I'm getting at with this is, what's acceptable in American culture fluctuates (though, recently it just seems to get more and more strict...) so really you can't say anything about America. DBZ Uncut, just with the Language toned down (Translate Kuso and Chikusho as "Darn" "Crap" and "Shoot") and you probably could have Aired it totally uncut in the States at one point and it still woulda been a kid's show.
it was made for Kids in Japan, and even though America has been prudish as of late, it's still a kid's show.

And about Sex... there really is pretty much none in DBZ. You have people having kids, but there's NEVER an explanation as to how it happened, just Mommy (Chichi) and Daddy (Son) had a kid. Mommy (Bulma) and Daddy (Vegeta) had a kid. it never goes into the hows at all... now Dragonball is another story entirely... but that wasn't strict sex so much as sexual jokes (the entire "Butt on your Chest" Gag still kills me XD)

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:36 am

Japan's standards change too, apparently. As evidenced by Goku's missing wiener in Kai.

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:06 pm

It sounds a bit weird, but maybe one of the reasons they started with Dragonball Z, instead of the original that it was made very clear that people can be wished back once they died, instead of in Dragonball where it took a long while before that was established. Does that make sense?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:09 pm

Y'know, if we're gonna talk about what Disney has done in kid's films... Hellfire.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:59 pm

Rocketman wrote:Y'know, if we're gonna talk about what Disney has done in kid's films... Hellfire.

"Now you deal with me, and all the powers of HELL!"
Too bad she doesn't say it quite like that in fantasmic!, but the changed version is more appropriate in the context.

And since I can't follow the link... I don't recall Frolo's lines in the song where he's bringing Hellfire and... I need to watch that movie.

Something Dragonball does that few I can think of State-side ... is that there are villains capable of change.

vershiris · Post by **vershiris** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:42 pm

Why is this conversation still going? I've got the point that dragonball is made for adults and I've explained my reasons for thinking that.

But you guys see where i was coming from right? Since this conversation is still going, I'm going to show you some things that i meant.

These are the sort of things that i was talking about, i wouldnt expect to see these things in a kids show, or if they were, not to this extent.

Blood:

Perverted moments:

Swear words:

Well, I'm not posting any pictures of subs with swear words but as you probably know Dragonball uses words like "Bastard", "Shit" and "Dammit" (not like dammit's a swear word but you still wouldnt expect to hear it on a kids show).

Even so, i know now that it was made for kids, i didnt know what shonen jump meant so i didnt know from that, and like i said before, i thought maybe it was made for an older audiance but became so popular that the majority of the audiance became kids.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:56 pm

worldmonsters wrote:
laserkid wrote:To those of you in the UK I have one major point about a show with violence and sex that was aimed at children there. Maybe you know of it...

When in Doctor Who is there ever sex? :S There's sex in Torchwood, but that IS an adult show. Violence, yes, but in comparison to Dragonball, not that much.

Ironically, Doctor Who is mistaken for an Adult Show in Japan, but only because of the late night air times.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:30 pm

All of those bloody moments happened for mere seconds, and then it doesn't show all that blood. They'd have blood splattered and in the next shot, they'd have them practically fine. Justice League New frontier had a scene where Hal Jordan flat out SHOOTS a Vietnamese CHILD soldier in the head and the blood splattered all over him. So effin' what?

I like how you say something like (paraphrasing), "why is this still going on? I proved that it was an adult cartoon." When all you did was show a few pictures that flash on the screen for a second. You want sexual jokes? I mean even Disney movies have sexual jokes. Tarzan lifting Jane's skirt, Donald effin' Duck making out with whatever her name is under a missile toe, etc. You can't say that it's an adult cartoon. Because quite frankly, I don't think any cartoon is for adults. Even ones that have sex in them, I'd consider those for teens...very...troubled teens.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:32 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Because quite frankly, I don't think any cartoon is for adults.

South Park, Futurama, Simpsons, Moral Orel, the ADULT Swim line-up?

I'm not saying that Dragon Ball is for adults. It by no means is. It's just that there are animated shows aimed at adults.

Kanzenshuu

Don't you just hate it when people think DB is for kids...

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