Epicness

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:06 pm

Is it me, or is the epicness of DBZ under-appreciated? I'm watching the series for the first time via the season box sets and the epic parts almost make me cry.

I'm write at the beginning of the Cell games, and for some odd reason I thought it was so cool when Vegeta showed up, and then Android 16. I don't know.

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:14 pm

The epic battles have always been the main attracting point of the series for me. I was instantly hooked when watching Goku fight Vegeta, it just escalates into such a hopeless scenario, but they end up winning anyway, just barely.

However, a large portion of the people on this board are attracted to DBZ for its "charm" and the funny jokes. I fail to find a majority of the jokes in DBZ funny, and this "charm" which everyone speaks of goes right over my head. I love it for the fighting and the characters, and I think the epic fights are under appreciated, in favor of the "funny moments", which are usually little jokes that barely give me a chuckle. Eh, to each his own.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:18 pm

I'd have to disagree and say that the epicness is overrated. I mean I love the show to death, but I'm not going to say that it was the most incredible thing ever invented.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:18 pm

Oh, I usually appreciate the "humor" moments, but not because they're funny.
But Lemmy explained that better than I could hope to. Ur, today, anyway

The epic action is pretty freaking awesome, though. The fight with Vegeta is a great example, so long as we're talking the whole thing (Goku Vs Vegeta here wasn't bad or anything; what bugs me about it on its own is more a "I know they fight again and it's boring as hell" response. Totally unfair, I know. D: ).

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:25 pm

I never said it was the most incredible thing ever invented, I just said it's what I enjoy the most about the show. Epic fighting is usually what I look for in action animes, and I often find myself comparing other animes to DB, and thinking "Man DBZ pulled this idea off so much better."

So while it's not the best thing ever, DBZ pulls off these epic fights much better than most other anime I've seen, and it's a main attracting point to the show. People over looking it for other aspects of the series, especially ones that get greatly undermined later on, like the silly jokes, really baffles me. But like I said, to each his own.

While I'm on the subject, let me clarify, I don't dislike the humor in DB. I just don't think a lot of it is funny, mostly in DBZ, whereas DB had a lot better humor IMO. I also do think a lot of it is downright hilarious. It's situational really.

Zuhalter2000 · Post by **Zuhalter2000** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:01 pm

Bomber Greek wrote:I'm write at the beginning of the Cell games,

Fail

Sorry but I had to point that out

Anyways, I don't think its overrated. Some pooeple don't even think its the least bit epic. There are parts that people love to death and declare EPIC but I think otherwise. The series does have some very epic moments (Saiyan Saga, SSJ2 Teen Gohan, SSJ3 Goku, etc).

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:10 pm

Hey! Good to see someone's impression after watching it for the first time! Wait, you have 186 posts and this is your first time seeing it? That seems weird.

It does have it's epic moments, that's true. Sometimes it's just simple stuff, like you say, everyone showing up at the Cell games.

I do think the show is under appreciated in the anime community.

Zuhalter2000 wrote:SSJ2 Teen Gohan

Fail. 9 years old != 'Teen'.

...

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:13 pm

Actually, he's 11 years old, but he's still a pre-teen. It's kinda retarded how all the DBZ games call Cell Saga Gohan, Teen Gohan, and Buu Saga Gohan, Adult Gohan. Because you're an adult when you're 16, and you're a teenager when you're 11. Yeah.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:13 pm

I think it really depends on what version of Dragon Ball Z you are watching to say if "epic scenes" are epic or not...

Japanese version- EXTREMELY epic in a spiritual and emotional way
FUNimation version- epic in a hardcore, super galactic war way
Ocean Group version- *yawns*

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:13 pm

Bussani wrote:Hey! Good to see someone's impression after watching it for the first time! Wait, you have 186 posts and this is your first time seeing it? That seems weird.

It does have it's epic moments, that's true. Sometimes it's just simple stuff, like you say, everyone showing up at the Cell games.

I do think the show is under appreciated in the anime community.

Zuhalter2000 wrote:SSJ2 Teen Gohan
Fail. 9 years old != 'Teen'.

...

I joined a while back because I started this series after my cousin showed me Budokai Tenkaichi 2. I rented it, and then bought it and it was so cool. Before that, I just dismissed the series as some cartoon. Around April, I purchased the Season One set then a month after Season Two. I sort of stopped for a while, but eventually got three, a friend let me borrow four, and I bought five and six. I actually sold him one and two in the past, which I really regret doing. I guess I didn't feel the need to collect back then.

Anyway, I've become a huge fan and yeah, I'm just watching the Cell Games for the first time. I know what ends up happening, but I don't know the smaller details and stuff.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:17 pm

Bomber Greek wrote:
Bussani wrote:Hey! Good to see someone's impression after watching it for the first time! Wait, you have 186 posts and this is your first time seeing it? That seems weird.

It does have it's epic moments, that's true. Sometimes it's just simple stuff, like you say, everyone showing up at the Cell games.

I do think the show is under appreciated in the anime community.

Zuhalter2000 wrote:SSJ2 Teen Gohan
Fail. 9 years old != 'Teen'.

...
I joined a while back because I started this series after my cousin showed me Budokai Tenkaichi 2. I rented it, and then bought it and it was so cool. Before that, I just dismissed the series as some cartoon. Around April, I purchased the Season One set then a month after Season Two. I sort of stopped for a while, but eventually got three, a friend let me borrow four, and I bought five and six. I actually sold him one and two in the past, which I really regret doing. I guess I didn't feel the need to collect back then.

Anyway, I've become a huge fan and yeah, I'm just watching the Cell Games for the first time. I know what ends up happening, but I don't know the smaller details and stuff.

Heh, that must be fun. I was the same; an older fan had told me everything that was going to happen, but in my head I pictured it quite differently to how it actually was, and I didn't have the smaller details of course.

Glad you're enjoying it!

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Well I got the story from the game. But yeah, I am enjoying it a lot. I also have the whole DB manga I got for cheap. It's funny, it's definitely my favorite anime but I also have the most complaints about it.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:29 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:I think it really depends on what version of Dragon Ball Z you are watching to say if "epic scenes" are epic or not...

Japanese version- EXTREMELY epic in a spiritual and emotional way
FUNimation version- epic in a hardcore, super galactic war way
Ocean Group version- *yawns*

Saiyan and Namek saga Ocean dub though, that has the most 'epic' of all dub moments.

(I'd also like to go on record as stating that I hate the use of the word 'epic' in internet communities)

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:04 pm

For me, a lot of the "epic" moments are made epic by the music (Kikuchi Shunsuke of course).

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:41 pm

ImmortalSandwich wrote:The epic battles have always been the main attracting point of the series for me. I was instantly hooked when watching Goku fight Vegeta, it just escalates into such a hopeless scenario, but they end up winning anyway, just barely.

You know, I've recently been rethinking the hoplessness of the situation.

Yes, it's brilliant, but here are my thoughts:

Had Gohan not trasformed and they had all gotten killed, what would Vegeta have done next? He didn't have the energy to wipe everyone out... my guess is he would have gone back to heal, and still end up getting killed by Freeza.

Zuhalter2000 · Post by **Zuhalter2000** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:50 am

Bussani wrote:
Zuhalter2000 wrote:SSJ2 Teen Gohan
Fail. 9 years old != 'Teen'.

...

Fail indeed

DominatorLost · Post by **DominatorLost** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:28 am

I've never, ever seen anyone call it epic, which is odd considering the scale of things. Also, it should but nothing ever sticks out to me.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:56 am

I'm selective with my attachment of the term 'Epic', as it tends to apply to kind-numbingly awesome things like Gurren Lagann that ramp up and up and up in crazy and amazing without stop so much it makes your head spin. Oh my god I love Gurren Lagann o_o but must not rant.... off... topic....

Does this mean Dragonball isn’t awesome? Course not. Epic's just the wrong word. I'd have to think of a specific proper one.

What I've always loved most about the show is the power of its characters, not the fights or the jokes or any of the rets of that. I'm profoundly attached to these boys and their struggles with the world and themselves. That's what catches me, what keeps me. It's like being Epic, but.... just not the right word.

USSJed · Post by **USSJed** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:35 am

For me, a lot of the "epic" moments are made epic by the music (Kikuchi Shunsuke of course).

This. And because of this, I find it impossible to like the japanese dub at all.

Given the horrid slow pace of the anime, it goes to show just how good Bruce was when he made that music, that it can keep the audience interested for just grotesquely long periods of inaction.

Hao_Kaiser · Post by **Hao_Kaiser** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:01 am

Velasa wrote:I'm selective with my attachment of the term 'Epic', as it tends to apply to kind-numbingly awesome things like Gurren Lagann that ramp up and up and up in crazy and amazing without stop so much it makes your head spin. Oh my god I love Gurren Lagann o_o but must not rant.... off... topic....

I was totally about to make a Gurren Lagann analogy...

And while I certainly don't agree with USSJed's comment about Bruce Faulkner's score being good just for the sake that it fills silence, I do agree that the anime is almost too long to effectively generate any sort of epic feeling.

When you take five episodes to do something that a show like Gurren Lagann could do in half of one, the feeling of "Holy Shit!" is gone.

Scenes is Gurren Lagann, like when Simon snaps out of his depression, or towards the end, when everyone snaps out of their "hallucinations" (that the best term I can think of without spoiling anything), while "'Libera Me' From Hell" plays in the background, and they get ready to fight - You just want to scream at the top of your lungs. And those are just two instances upon many across 27 episodes.

Dragon Ball, in all its material, has, what? Goku's first SSj transformation, and Gohan's SSj2 transformation? Maybe Vegeta's sacrifice against Buu, or the ten-billion Metal Coolas standing on the cliff in movie 6? Gohan's whistle song at the beginning of movie 4?

Obviously, the two are parts of different genres produced for different audiences, and Dragon Ball certainly does have it's moments, but the show takes so long to do anything, and when you have the dragon balls there to revive anyone who dies, or fix anything that gets destroyed, it really is hard to feel concerned for the characters, or think that anything all that world-changing is going to happen.

I watch Dragon Ball for the characters, weird Japanese humor, and fight scenes, but mostly for nostalgia. I don't think I would be able to pick up and watch Dragon Ball now had I not watched it obsessively as a kid. To me, it really is just a cartoon with enough charm to stick with you as you grow up. I see Dragon Ball's epic moments to be as epic as rolling up a really big katamari in Katamari Damacy. It's cool at the moment, but isn't something you won't see again.

I am curious to hear what version of the show you're watching, those of you who see the show a epic. Maybe something about the dub lends itself to such a feeling.

... Raw Raw, Fight the Power?

Kanzenshuu

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