The Most Hopeless Moment of the Series

[mAcChaos]

When Goku died and left Gohan in charge of protecting Earth.

Okay, we get it - you don't like Gohan. Can you stop beating it into the ground now? Because it's getting old.

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Rocketman, even though that I am a Gohan fanboy.

Gohan wasn't in any place near to be able to handle the hero task by himself.
Until the very end of the battle against Cell he still was highly dependent on his father.
He clearly showed that even if his father was gone, he was unable to defend Earth, even though he was the strongest fighter there.

Hell, Goten or Trunks would have done a better job, like when their fusion ended (because of pure stupidity) and they were left to fight Buu in their weak SSJ forms together with Piccolo.
At least they were going to try to fight, whilst Gohan, being older than them, gave up in his battle against Cell.
Gohan had lost his father, and Goten and Trunks had lost everyone but Piccolo, at least as far as they knew.

He was like nine years old, what do you expect? Is he not supposed to be dependent on his father at that age?

[Wojak]

Okay, we get it - you don't like Gohan. Can you stop beating it into the ground now? Because it's getting old.

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Rocketman, even though that I am a Gohan fanboy.

Gohan wasn't in any place near to be able to handle the hero task by himself.
Until the very end of the battle against Cell he still was highly dependent on his father.
He clearly showed that even if his father was gone, he was unable to defend Earth, even though he was the strongest fighter there.

Hell, Goten or Trunks would have done a better job, like when their fusion ended (because of pure stupidity) and they were left to fight Buu in their weak SSJ forms together with Piccolo.
At least they were going to try to fight, whilst Gohan, being older than them, gave up in his battle against Cell.
Gohan had lost his father, and Goten and Trunks had lost everyone but Piccolo, at least as far as they knew.

He was like nine years old, what do you expect? Is he not supposed to be dependent on his father at that age?

Yet, the seven and eight year old Goten and Trunks were less dependent, and they fought an enemy that they didn't have a chance of beating.
See the contrast here?

Gohan in Namek was much more independent (at the age of 5) than he was at the age of nine. He had no chance against Freeza but he did't give up then.

[Rocketman]

He was like nine years old, what do you expect? Is he not supposed to be dependent on his father at that age?

EITHER be utterly dependent on daddy OR be the protector of the world. Not both.

[ImmortalSandwich]

Watching our characters overcome weakness makes us grow a lot closer to them. It makes the situation more dramatic and gives the characters more depth to their personality. With the help of his dad, Gohan found confidence and strength in himself that he didn't previous know was there, and if Toriyama had decided to stick with the idea of Gohan replacing Goku, he probably would have continued training after he defeated Cell rather than turning into a soft bookworm, and probably would have been ready for Buu and been a much better replacement for Goku than he turned out to be. Not everyone is born a hero like Goku is, but Gohan was made into one. It's a shame Toriyama changed his mind about the whole thing, because Gohan would have been a great protagonist.

[Hao_Kaiser]

I would agree with the whole Piccolo Daimou thing, but sense I saw the series in FUNi's weird, backwards way, I pretty much knew how everything was going to go down.

Pretty much any moment you can think of in the Buu Saga.

Seriously, if it wasn't a shounen, you really could believe the good guys would've lost.

This is the first thing that came to mind. Goku is dead, Vegeta kills himself, and we don't really know where Gohan is. We basically have Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo in play, which leads to my favorite fight of the entire series, but honestly isn't that reassuring that the good guys are going to win.

And then Buu whips out that "Human Annihilation" thing... Jeez...

Other than that, though, I remember just thinking "Well, fuck" (or the 10 year old equivalent) when Cell came back after Goku tried to have him blow up on Kaio's planet. I mean, I had nightmares about Cell afterward.

[Kunzait_83]

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[B]

Of all the villians, Vegeta is the only one that was beaten by PURE CHANCE, because there was absolutely no hope of defeating him normally. That's why that's the most hopeless moment in all of Dragon Ball.

I could argue the same about Buu, as Goku had no idea how much energy all of Earth would actually give him for the Energy Sphere. Hell, he didn't even think it would work.

And just to add on the hopelessness of that arc, two fo the strongest warriors were taken out pretty much like nothing from the get-go, Goku was almost completely even with Buu, and Buu's unique abilities basically made him unstoppable in a normal fight, knocking around virtually every Z Warrior that stood up to him, and absorbing the ones he couldn't beat. Oh yeah, and the Earth was destroyed.

Other than that, though, I remember just thinking "Well, fuck" (or the 10 year old equivalent) when Cell came back after Goku tried to have him blow up on Kaio's planet. I mean, I had nightmares about Cell afterward.

Completely forgot about that. That was just "Wow, they're boned."

Now that I think about it, the exact same thing happened on Namek with Freeza.

[Rocketman]

I could argue the same about Buu, as Goku had no idea how much energy all of Earth would actually give him for the Energy Sphere. Hell, he didn't even think it would work.

And just to add on the hopelessness of that arc, two fo the strongest warriors were taken out pretty much like nothing from the get-go, Goku was almost completely even with Buu, and Buu's unique abilities basically made him unstoppable in a normal fight, knocking around virtually every Z Warrior that stood up to him, and absorbing the ones he couldn't beat. Oh yeah, and the Earth was destroyed.

Oh hell yes. Remember that old Toonami promo for the Buu Saga that took that and ran with it? Fucking chills, man.


Sometimes it's darkest just before dawn.

[ulisa]

Gohan to me was always meant to represent more of how an “average/normal” child would respond to the insane/horrible stuff happening in the series. Even (hell, especially) as a 5 year old in the Saiya-jin and Freeza arcs, he tended to react with a LOT more genuine fear and horror to the fights than Goku/Goten/Trunks ever did, much like you’d expect any ordinary kid his age would, ki powers or no.

I also tend to think on the comparisons between Trunks/Goten and Gohan's lives. Trunks and Goten up until the attack of Buu and Babidi pretty much had stable lives; no one dying, no sudden attacks, families, for the most part remaining intact.

Gohan, on the other hand, well...not so much: Dad dies when he's four and he's yanked into the wilderness by the creature that killed his father for a year. Vegeta and Nappa attack, his father returns to almost die again due to the battle with Vegeta which leads to the travels to Namek where Krillin is killed in front of him, Piccolo almost dies, and his father is thought dead. His friend Dende has to leave and Dad still doesn't return for over a year. If you count the Garlic Junior Saga, then he lives through a period of time where his friends and family are possessed and attack him. Jump forward to the Trunks Saga, then the monster called Freeza returns. His father finally comes home and they get hit with the news of two machines more powerful than Freeza coming and the fact that Goku's supposed to be sick and possibly die. He gets three years of stability where he trains and studies at home with his family. The battle with the Androids leads to Goku becoming sick with barely enough time to process that he's lived through it before they're training for Cell...

Well, with that much stuff in anyone's life, let alone anyone that young, you'd cling to any form of stability or safety. I don't blame Gohan for being so dependant on his father, especially since the man has been torn out of his life at least twice before. I probably would have been too and Gohan has usually been shown to be torn between the two sides of his culture. Goten and Trunks also seem to have a great deal more confidence than Gohan does. I think if Toriyama had stuck with his idea of Gohan taking over that he would have trained more and not become as soft as he is in the beginning of the Buu Saga. In my opinion, that would have been a great step in character development much more satisfying than Goku training Uub to take over: mantle of hero passed from father to son, so to speak. But, then that's just my opinion and I admit to being biased in Gohan's favor.

But in answer to the most helpless moment in the series? I'll divide into the three series:

DRAGONBALL: Definitely when King Piccolo killed Shenlong. Up to this point, I had feared enemies getting their hands on the Dragonballs due to the types of wishes they would make but since Shenlong has been called a "dragon god" it never occured to me that he could DIE...

DRAGONBALL Z: Two events here:

Actually it wasn't a battle but just the little conversation that Trunks had with Goku when he first arrived, explaining what was coming. Hearing about an enemy that wiped out everyone, half the world's population and that an illness might very well wipe out Goku jsut had me thinking:"Oh shit...

Second time was during the Buu Saga when Piccolo is attempting to stall Buu to give Trunks and Goten more time to prepare and Buu proceeds to lift one hand and wipe out the rest of the world's population in one attack.

DRAGONBALL GT: There weren't many in GT that I recall, simply because after seeing them survive Buu, there wasn't much that I didn't think they could do. If I had to pick one, then it would probably be when Bebi took over most of Goku's family and friends; it is one thing to fight an enemy but it's another altogether to have to fight people you care about. Similiar thought regarding when one of the Shadow Dragons used pan as a shield against Goku for pretty much the same reasons.

Ulisa

[Daburcor]

The first two posts are the two most hopeless I can think of. Other than that; The first time Goku dies. Yeah, you know he's just gonna come right back, but for a split second, you think "Shit! Goku's DEAD?!" and wonder what's going to happen to everyone on Earth NOW, since the other Saiya-jin are on their way.

[Velasa]

The first thing I'll always think of on this topic is Krillian. Krillian, all but paralyzed and barely conscious on the bloody earth. The Sayiajin aren't even breathing hard. All of his friends have just died. Hell, even the guy he was scared of that was helping them died- it's just him and this little kid. Gohan tried, god he tried.... but he's worn out. And he's going to die too, and then the world's going to end and Son Goku seems to have abandoned them. Goku, where are you?

I already knew how things were going to go down with the Androids and Cell and Daimaou and most of the rest of the series. But when I first saw the Sayiajin fight I could barely believe what was happening- and looking at things through Krillian's eyes right at that point of the battle... damn. It still stays with me how that scene felt.

[Tsukento]

Daimao killed Shenlong? Well Nappa killed Piccolo, which in turn killed Kami, which also in turn killed Shenlong. No reincarnation there either, and in fact no God to bring the Dragon Balls back.

Yeah, but you gotta remember that back then, we had no idea that the God of Earth was the one who made the Dragon Balls. We figured that with the Dragon Balls gone, that was it. There was no way to bring anyone back.

...

That is, unless you went with FUNi's way of showing the series. Then you pretty much lose all sense of feeling of things that happen in Dragon Ball.

[Chrome]

I have to agree with Kunzait_83's sentiments. While there are many moments of hopelessness throughout the Dragonball series, the saiyan and freeza sagas have hopelessness as an overlying theme.

The saiyan saga has the biggest impact in that regard. The pace at which the main characters were completely taken apart came as a genuine shock, and seeing even the mighty Piccolo fall added to the feeling that all was lost.

The Freeza saga continues this theme of hopelessness. Even before events begin to take place, we know the good guys are fighting a losing battle. Vegeta breaking down into tears was when I felt, watching, that it was pretty much over.

During these two sagas, there is consistently a feeling that no matter what the good guys do, they will always be outclassed. The Cell and Buu sagas simply do not have this. There is always a sense that somebody is bound to save the day.

There are also far fewer moments where the heroes find themselves truly and completely down-trodden - unable to move and without any assistence. In the Cell and Buu sagas, it is almost always garunteed that a senzu bean or Dende is on the way. For much of the Saiyan and Freeza sagas, the warriors do not have these assets. I always think of the end of the saiyan saga. There are very few moments where the fighters (particularly Goku) approach that level of weariness.

[B]

In the Cell and Buu sagas, it is almost always garunteed that a senzu bean or Dende is on the way.

The only Senzu in the Buu Saga was given to Vegeta so he and Goku could fight Buu together. Vegeta uses Goku's kindness to knock him unconcious and fights Buu alone, incredibly decreasing his chances WITHOUT Goku's help. And Dende is assumed dead for a short while.

[ultimateemail5000]

This is a hard question, there are so many hopeless moments in the series where the characters are litterly screwed, with no way out, but then BAM, miracles happen. I think that the crew had the worst though is when they were up against Freeza. Goku used the Genkai-dama, thought he killed Freeza, but then he rises, kills off Piccolo, then Krillin, Vegeta was dead, Dende was gone(if you play RPG's, YOU KNOW, you need a healer), but it just leads to a spark of hope, and we all know Son goes Super Saiyin.

But if anything was truly truly the most hopeless moment, it would be the writing in GT. How many times does SS4 Goku, blast a kamehameha to Babi? We all know the character Goku always has new moves up his sleeve, he doesn't just keep shooting kamehameha's. It's the most unoriginal move, its like playing Mortal Kombat with somebody who's Scorpion and they just use the COME OVER HERE move repeatedly. That to me, is the most hopeless moment in the series.

[Satan-Sama]

When Goku is fighting Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga. Everyone is dead minus Krillin, Gohan, and Yajirobe, and once Vegeta goes Oozaru, and breaks Goku's legs. Goku's laying there on the ground in agony, and he blasts Vegeta in the eye. This line isn't intact in the dub (not sure about the Jap version), but in the manga Goku says "Just call it something to remember me by. I can't fight anymore, you can do what you want to me." And Vegeta proceeds to pick up Goku and begin crushing all of the bones in his body while Goku just takes it, screaming in pain, all the while Vegeta is talking trash saying things like "This is what you get for what you did to me".

Yeah, Goku, you piece of shit. This is what you get for standing up for your friends and trying to save the world, you're gonna get tortured until you die, then this guy's gonna kill everyone you know and sell your planet. Krillin and Gohan even come back, but Vegeta easily stops them from interfering. This is easily the most helpless situation (IMO), until Yajirobe steps in. But who was honestly expecting that? I sure as hell wasn't.

Yeah you know things are helpless when you are relying on Yajirobe...

If Goku had arrived just a few minutes later, everyone probably would have been dead.

There is a lot of those moments.

I would say after Vegeta got completely owned by #18, and then both #17 and #18 proceeded to beat the crap out of everyone would be a pretty hopeless moment in the series. No one could even touch them, Trunks already warned everyone what damage the cyborgs of his time inflicted on the planet, and to make things worse: these cyborgs were much stronger than their alternate counterparts and there was #16.

[masenko]

I know you've all been mentioning the series but the movies have had some really hopeless moments. My example being movie 9, when Gohan is being bear-hugged to death. Goku had to break the rules of heaven just to save him. Jeeze. That movie really is one of the best.

[Kunzait_83]

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[mAcChaos]

I thought the whole Cell Saga was up there with hopelessness. But it also had that awesome one-upmanship that made it feel like one gigantic series of challenges. I mean, first they had Freeza returning, then the androids, then they find out the androids that almost beat them and they barely held off weren't even the REAL androids, then they got their butts kicked, then Cell showed up, and with Cell no matter what they would do he would end up outsmarting them and having them on the run somehow. And then he became so ultimately powerful that their entire existence became a game to him. Even Freeza never got that strong. Then we have to include the entire Cell Games...

[Innagadadavida]

Oh hell yes. Remember that old Toonami promo for the Buu Saga that took that and ran with it? Fucking chills, man.


Sometimes it's darkest just before dawn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8hV3bEqmM

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