Goku's Character Development

[Dr. Casey]

Son Goku is oftentimes considered the most static character in anime history. "Son Goku is exactly the same in episode 1 of Dragon Ball as in episode 291 of Dragon Ball Z!" the critics exclaim. What say you, people of Daizenshuu? Do you agree or disagree with this claim of nonexistent character development? If you do agree, do you find Goku a boring, simplistic, and predictable character, or do you manage to appreciate him nonetheless?

I personally think Goku undergoes an extreme amount of character development that's almost as pronounced as the changes Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo go through. However, I will keep my thoughts to myself for now, so as to not give this thread a pro-character development slant before it even starts.

[JAPPO]

I do think he's one-sided, but there's nothing too wrong with that. I mean sure he has moments where he acts completely serious or angry, but for the most part he's goofy, naive, and caring throughout the series.

[Chuquita]

My thoughts are, of course he's got character development. :3 It's just not as pronounced as the others.


He goes from having no issue knocking off his opponents (Red Ribbon Army Arc, Piccolo Daimao Arc) to later on not wanting to kill them, but only get them to stop causing harm instead (Piccolo Jr, Nappa, Jheese and Burter). And, in some cases, selfishly keeping them alive because he wants to fight them again (Vegeta).


Also he goes from having to do the pat-pat to tell someone's gender (and there's a scene in Viz's translation of the Buu arc where he has to ask if Videl's a girl or not but after reading some of Herms' accurate translations I'm not sure how true Viz's scene is.) to bribing a Kai with Bulma's body.


I hold to a theory that some crazy stuff must've gone on with Goku in Otherworld between Cell and Buu; because when he comes back after those 7 years he's lost a good chunk of naivete. And if you count the new animated special and what he does to Vegeta there, it adds to it.




There's also the whole Goku-refuses-to-be-associated-as-a-saiyajin stuff that lasts from the saiyajin arc itself until he discovers the truth about Freeza and his homeplanet's destruction. Even after Freeza, in some of the movies he still refers to himself as an Earthling and doesn't use his saiyajin name.

[MagicBox]

The character does have some very subtle character development, but only in the Freeza and Cell arcs, I think.

The Freeza Saga has probably Goku's greatest evolution as a character: his struggle with his Saiyan heritage. It's not really mentioned much, but it's obvious when you look at the series in hindsight. From the day Goku learns he's an alien, he's always denying it and exclaiming that he's a human. All of that denial leads to a great payoff during Vegeta's death. When he's burying Vegeta and he states "hey, I really want to share some of this pride now" it makes an impact.

The Cell Games has a smaller change when Goku sees Gohan getting the crap beat out of him after refusing to fight Cell. Goku has an incredibly one-track mind and really only takes time to concentrate on non-fighting things during filler. He loves fighting and never really gives it a second thought when someone talks about anything else. He makes Gohan his trump card for the whole Cell fight without even telling him and basically forces him into taking on the Earth's biggest threat, an incredibly deadly task, just for the sport of it. I think seeing his son admitting he detests fighting is the moment where Goku finally wakes up and realizes "Whoa, there are people who actually DON'T like this. I'm a monster for being this selfish." That leads into his apology when he teleports Cell to Kaio-sama's planet, when he tells Gohan to tell Chichi that he's sorry he always selfishly did whatever he wanted.

Of course, that second one completely vanishes in the Boo arc, but whatever. You take what you can get.

[Mr. Announcer]

Yeah, it's definitely a very subtle thing if it's there at all.

Throughout Dragonball we definitely see Gokuh gradually becoming more knowledgeable and mature, even to the point where he can manipulate people (Yajirobe?).

On into his adulthood, there's a trend towards a more merciful, pacifistic attitude, but that's quickly traded for Gokuh, the proud saiyan ass.

After some more a-holery, Gokuh sort of gets his act together at the end of the Cell saga with his second sacrifice. In the Buu saga, we see him thinking a lot about the future, and cultivating the talents of the younger generation.

So yeah, it's there but I actually like that he doesn't go through too much development.

[Velasa]

He learns things, he has revelations and the like... but he is pretty wooden. But that's just Son Goku- he's sweet, loves to fight, thick as a brick.

[mAcChaos]

Well, he does stop trying to save people... he even tried to save Freeza... but he gave up on that after him. He never tried to save Cell. And when it came to life... he used to flip out if even one person died, but by the Buu Saga, when Bulma says everyone will be killed by Buu while they train he just shrugs and suggests the Dragon Balls.

[B]

Goku has no character development whatsoever; he IS the same throughout the series. And that's his appeal. He doesn't need it as he's perfect from the get-go. He's innocent, kind, caring, pure, and he fights for what's right, no matter what is stacked against him. He's an inspiration in the series to his friends, and probably to a handful of the fanbase. Goku shapes and develops the OTHER characters.

Goku is a representation of everything the average person is not. I know he and I are polar opposites. Dragon Ball is fantasy, and it's nice to see a main character who rolls on with his life in stride that doesn't remind me how much the world sucks cock, because he doesn't believe it sucks cock.

[Bejiita]

His care-free attitude is what never changes, and the core of his personality doesn't change that much, but seeing a character go from kid to adult you'd expect to see more of a change that you do with Goku, but it's probably the fact that he is an alien who's main objective was to kill everything on Earth but bashed his head badly and forgot, maybe that bash is what made him slightly demented when it comes to common sense, but to me his battle tactics proves that he is smart.

Where exactly did you hear this about Goku anyway? I ain't ever read comments saying that about him, who are these critics you talk of?

[omegacwa]

I personally prefer Goku in Dragonball rather than Z. Something about his goofy cuteness makes him an awesome character, by the middle of Z he is more about serious business and becomes less likable and more generic in my opinion.

[Kaboom]

I personally prefer Goku in Dragonball rather than Z. Something about his goofy cuteness makes him an awesome character, by the middle of Z he is more about serious business and becomes less likable and more generic in my opinion.

I have to agree. I find the little spurts in Z where Goku starts acting like his old self quite refreshing and fun.

[SSJmole]

I think Goku did change but here is my theory (most likely wrong) :

Goku and Vegeta fused to make Vegito. Vegito was said to last irreversible. Yet once inside Buu they spit back in to two. I think the fusion altered both men just a little but it was noticeable. Goku seemed to become more serious and tough while Vegeta became nicer. Not to the point of been personality swaped but I think of it more as their personalities were influenced.

Now which ever cannon you pick it still hold up :

Anime - Look at GT. When Goku is a child he acts as he did as a child but when he was SSJ 4 he was an adult with his adult personality and SSJ 4 is noticeably tougher and more intense. Vegeta in GT we see him a bit more relaxed in his scenes with Bra.

Manga : The new special I count as here as it doesn't fit GT but here. Goku cheats a little with Vegeta something he hated when Krillin did it to him in the early days. Vegeta we see eating much like Goku. The effects are still present.


So to sum up. There seems to be parts of Vegeta in Goku and vise versa, since they separated as Vegito.

[omegacwa]

Very interesting theory. Honestly it makes a lot of sense.

[Kaboom]

Kinda like when Captain Picard mind-melded with Sarek, eh?

[Dr. Casey]

I hold to a theory that some crazy stuff must've gone on with Goku in Otherworld between Cell and Buu; because when he comes back after those 7 years he's lost a good chunk of naivete. And if you count the new animated special and what he does to Vegeta there, it adds to it.

Hmm... that sounds interesting. You should write a fanfic about those seven years. XD I'd read it. And what does Goku do to Vegeta? I haven't watched the new special.

Throughout Dragonball we definitely see Gokuh gradually becoming more knowledgeable and mature, even to the point where he can manipulate people (Yajirobe?).

Great point. A very subtle touch, but it speaks volumes.

but that's quickly traded for Gokuh, the proud saiyan ass.

Hehe. I always like seeing people disapprove of his Cell Games behavior. I think I'd have been okay with Goku's plan if he discussed it with Gohan beforehand instead of thrusting it onto him completely unprepared. I mean, Gohan was the only character capable of defeating Cell, so it's not like there's much of a choice. Giving Cell a senzu was pure bullshit too, of course. Pretty much everyone was suicidal during the Cell Saga at one point or another.

Goku has no character development whatsoever; he IS the same throughout the series. And that's his appeal. He doesn't need it as he's perfect from the get-go. He's innocent, kind, caring, pure, and he fights for what's right, no matter what is stacked against him. He's an inspiration in the series to his friends, and probably to a handful of the fanbase. Goku shapes and develops the OTHER characters.

I agree that he's a very consistent character, B, but I wouldn't say he has no character development whatsoever. During the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, whenever they air that silly movie about Mr. Satan defeating Cell... after it concludes, Goku laughs and gives a bemused, "It's amazing what happens when you let a fib go on this long, huh?" Picture 12 year old Goku saying that. Wouldn't it seem strangely sophisticated and even out of character coming from him? He'd probably just stare blankly and make a curious little sound, or at best give a completely earnest "That's not what happened..." I can't picture him giving the aforementioned quote as a child because it's too insightful, well-reasoned, and aware. He's a very consistent person, but I do think he develops mentally between childhood and adulthood.

Where exactly did you hear this about Goku anyway? I ain't ever read comments saying that about him, who are these critics you talk of?

Can't think of any specific examples, Bejiita. It's just Dragon Ball fans (Or detractors) as a whole. Do a search for the word 'development' and you'll find a few character development threads where we make such claims against Goku.

I personally prefer Goku in Dragonball rather than Z. Something about his goofy cuteness makes him an awesome character, by the middle of Z he is more about serious business and becomes less likable and more generic in my opinion.

I have to agree. I find the little spurts in Z where Goku starts acting like his old self quite refreshing and fun.

Goku definitely peaked in seriousness during the Cell Saga. He was actually kind of threatening sometimes, the way he punched Gohan whenever the kid went to go save Piccolo.

He was pretty awesome towards the very beginning of the series. "Were you abandoned because you have an extra butt?" I like how he just assumes that Bulma was abandoned. XD

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think Goku's character development was as large as Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta's. He starts as an innocent, naive child who has to use a pat-pat to tell whether someone's a boy or a girl. In the Piccolo Daimao Saga, I think we saw Goku becoming more serious, wanting to take revenge for his friends' deaths and fighting Daimao.

In Z, however, Goku seemed to have become much softer when he fought his enemies. Unlike in DB, as a child, he fought the likes of Yamcha, the Red Ribbon Army, and Piccolo Daimao without thinking if he would kill them. But he gave mercy and let Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta (although letting Vegeta live was partly because of the whole Saiyan "I want to fight him again" thing). Even as the battle-hungry Super Saiyan, he allowed Freeza to flee with his life, even giving in to Freeza's pleas to help him after he was cut in half. In the Android Saga, he was pretty much the same as in the Freeza Saga. But in the Cell Games, I think he became more caring towards his family and friends, sacrificing himself for the good of the Earth and saying he didn't want to come back to life because enemies were always drawn to him. And the fact that he had so much hope in his son, Gohan (although I admit he fucked up thinking that Gohan was a fighter).

In the Boo Saga, frankly, he was a bit of a bastard. He was a Super Saiyan 3, had enough power to finish off Fat Boo, but let him LIVE? Because he wanted the kids to finish the job, even with the knowledge that the whole planet could be destroyed because of Boo? And then taking on the bastardised side of Vegeta when he refused the Potara against Kid Boo? WTF? And at the end of Z, when he flew off with Oob, leaving his family and friends AGAIN? Goku's a crappy father, really. He's constantly let his kids get beaten up over and over again because he was too mercy-giving to finish off the job.

I think Goku's a good, all-round hero. He's had his bad points - but hey, doesn't every hero make mistakes? Well...Goku maybe more than others. But anyway, he's a great character anyhow. That's why he's in my Top 5 best characters.

[Velasa]

Hehe. I always like seeing people disapprove of his Cell Games behavior. I think I'd have been okay with Goku's plan if he discussed it with Gohan beforehand instead of thrusting it onto him completely unprepared. I mean, Gohan was the only character capable of defeating Cell, so it's not like there's much of a choice. Giving Cell a senzu was pure bullshit too, of course.

If he'd discussed it at all with Gohan that would have altered my twitching fury at those scenes. And, you know, not giving Cell a senzu just so that his child could experience as much pain as possible. Basically if hadn't been a total oblivious jackass during that whole part of the fight till he decided to stop things, I'd be much less pissed at him.

PD, I'm curious when the hell he seems to care for his family more in Cell saga because I didn't see it. I mostly saw Piccolo caring for Son's family more than he did <_<

[MCDaveG]

I think too that Goku was developing a bit in his mentality trough the series.....
But my favourite is Goku on the begining of Dragon Ball, when he's deadly funny with his silly talks

[jjgp1112]

He became less naive after the Frieza saga. He realized that there's no helping some people and he would have to kill them if necessary.

Where exactly did you hear this about Goku anyway? I ain't ever read comments saying that about him, who are these critics you talk of?

Usually subbies who complain about how Goku wasn't as child like in the dub.

[Satan-Sama]

I personally think Goku undergoes an extreme amount of character development that's almost as pronounced as the changes Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo go through.

Not even close... Goku doesn't go from demon or mass murderer to a hero... He remains a hero throughout the whole series, in fact having read everyone's posts I'm still unconvinced he received much character development, if any.