Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:58 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:DBK is not the way DBZ was meant to be seen, it's the way DBK was meant to be seen.
If only Funimation had called it Dragon Ball Funimation Funtime, all their changes would be more than acceptable as it would be an all-new show.
Are you really to get like that over a cartoon? Really? If you don't like Kai, that's fine and dandy, go buy the DBOX singles. Toei has made their "This is how DBZ is meant to be seen" release, this is their "He's a new take, enjoy as you will" release. The colors appear to be consistent to their new color key (if you will) and in same cases (the dôgis) actually look closer to the color the dôgis are typically colored as (that being an orange color, rather than red).

I think you're the one getting worked up.

I'm fine with Kai for what it is. In fact, I love the new songs and the new musical score, which was a surprise because I didn't think they'd do well in those departments.

But it seems like a logical fallacy, to me. "Oh, the name changes everything". It really doesn't, though. There are flaws to their changes in Z, and I won't be fine with them whether Toei calls it DBZ or Dragon Ball Joyfunhappy. I don't like the cropping and I don't like certain cuts, and the pacing feels off in bits of the first episode. I love the new music, the new score, and the pacing feels better in some parts.

It's a product with positives and negatives, and I don't think I need to "pick a side" to say "There are faults with this interpretation". The comparisons are even CLOSER, considering they're recycling all the animation and lines of dialogue. It's not a new show, but the old one repacked. Name or not.

And I'm also not too fond of this exclusionary "You aren't in our this is awesome club? Go away then, screw you and your stupid-ass opionions" attitude, either. It's a forum for discussion, not a big fan-orgy with the new show.

Mewzard · Post by **Mewzard** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:13 pm

I enjoyed Kai, but it's not perfect. I like the new songs, but I miss Kageyama's music. I like the OP/ED videos, but I feel they clash a bit with the older animation. Cropping I'm iffy on, but they did take it in a nice route with where they cropped it, though, I can still enjoy my season sets as well. Some of the new internal music I like, but I still miss parts of those classic scores. I like that they're re-dubbing it for stereo, but some actors do sound a tad off (like Bulma's lackluster anger). Then again, when it's dubbed, maybe the dub actress will be closer to right in that mood, with how they dub. I like the cuts of filler they did, but I wish they didn't cut out a few canon scenes I noticed. I liked that the cleaned the footage, but the colors do seem a bit odd after the years of watching a different version.

To me, Kai's fun, but also hit or miss. I like both the dub and sub, and hope this is a good chance for the dub actors to be given more accurate scripts. I don't try to chide one company or another too much (though, the process of remastering could have gone better on Funi's side as well, especially with some visual hiccups).

Does anyone else wonder if this series' possible success might lead to a new series, with new animation? I know a re-surge in popularity of Saint Seiya lead to its last arc being animated, and one of the newer manga getting an anime this year. Maybe something like what Toriyama said with Pan, Mr. Satan, and Mr. Buu having adventures, something with the idea of Dragon Ball Online, etc.

Also, for the rough voices, maybe they'll improve as they get a chance to practice with the voices once more. I know Goku sounded great, which is amazing considering his VAs age.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:13 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote: I think you're the one getting worked up.

Hindsight being as painful as it is, I probably took your phraseology too hard. A mistake on my part.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:20 pm

I timed exactly how much of the first episode was filler and how much was canonical, and here's what I came up with. Now, I did count the flashbacks to the Bardock TV Special and DB as filler, only bacuse they are not in the manga:

8 min 21 sec FILLER

6 min 25 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

0 min 48 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

4 min 21 sec CANONICAL

Total canonical time = 11 min 35 sec / 57.5%

Total filler time = 8 min 25 sec / 42.5%

NOTE: I did extract the eyecatches from the count.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:26 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote:I timed exactly how much of the first episode was filler and how much was canonical, and here's what I came up with. Now, I did count the flashbacks to the Bardock TV Special and DB as filler, only bacuse they are not in the manga:

8 min 21 sec FILLER

6 min 25 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

0 min 48 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

4 min 21 sec CANONICAL

Total canonical time = 11 min 35 sec / 57.5%

Total filler time = 8 min 25 sec / 42.5%

NOTE: I did extract the eyecatches from the count.

I take it that the first 8 minutes 21 seconds you posted is the Bardock and DB stuff. So, for the actual DBZ portion of the show, there was only 4 seconds of filler.

That's pretty nice!

EDIT: Wait. There was that Goku/Chichi and saving Gohan stuff... So, a couple minutes then.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:29 pm

Filler is a bit hard to figure, though. How many seconds of staring do you have to do for one panel? When does it become filler?

All the same, that's fairly impressive. I don't even consider the recap as a part of the show, it's just something to tell new kids the story.

Horgus · Post by **Horgus** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:30 pm

I honestly thought it was fine (fine, not great, not terrible, but fine).

My only points of contention are the opening (Dokkan Dokkan thing just doesn't do it for me, it sounds too fast and poppy), and the Piccolo/Raditz scene.

That 'demon theme' really made the scene in my opinion, and in the Kai the background music just feels flat. Silence probably would have been better than what they used.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:31 pm

Kendamu wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:I timed exactly how much of the first episode was filler and how much was canonical, and here's what I came up with. Now, I did count the flashbacks to the Bardock TV Special and DB as filler, only bacuse they are not in the manga:

8 min 21 sec FILLER

6 min 25 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

0 min 48 sec CANONICAL

0 min 2 sec FILLER

4 min 21 sec CANONICAL

Total canonical time = 11 min 35 sec / 57.5%

Total filler time = 8 min 25 sec / 42.5%

NOTE: I did extract the eyecatches from the count.
I take it that the first 8 minutes 21 seconds you posted is the Bardock and DB stuff. So, for the actual DBZ portion of the show, there was only 4 seconds of filler.

That's pretty nice!

That is correct! I really didn't want to count those first 8 minutes as filler, since they did mostly come from canonical material and really did help the story, but I was holding the manga in my hands and I just couldn't bring myself to call it what it's not.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:34 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote: That is correct! I really didn't want to count those first 8 minutes as filler, since they did mostly come from canonical material and really did help the story, but I was holding the manga in my hands and I just couldn't bring myself to call it what it's not.

The way I see it, it's like a long last episode recap, and I wouldn't say it's "filler" any more than I'd call the episode preview/recaps filler.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:35 pm

I just watched the first episode and I have to say it was fairly disappointing. The music did not feel like Dragon Ball at all to me. The new theme songs are mediocre at best and sound like every other generic pop anime opening/ending theme. To be honest, the opening theme actually annoys me. I really don't think Toei is targeting current fans of the series with this, but trying to pull in new fans --this doesn't necessarily please me. It feels slapped together and commercialized. It feels as if they took a chainsaw to the original footage, put it back together with tape and doused it in "new car smell" --it just doesn't work too well. As for the voice acting, some of it felt rather sloppy. That may be because some of the voice actors simply don't give a shit and are just there to get a paycheck.

I don't think I will continue to watch this new "revision" of the series, but I'll try out a couple more episodes to see where it goes. Overall I don't see any appeal in it and am baffled why some do. I truly think that if Toei would have just re-animated the entire thing, it would be much better and not have an awkward feeling to it.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:37 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:Filler is a bit hard to figure, though. How many seconds of staring do you have to do for one panel? When does it become filler?

All the same, that's fairly impressive. I don't even consider the recap as a part of the show, it's just something to tell new kids the story.

Thank you! I was arguing that with someone last night.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:37 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Gozar wrote:I find these colors to be a step down.
A step down from what?, the god awful colours of the first season set?

A step down from the Dragon Box and Season 3 and on of the Season Sets (For the most part).

SSJ2bardock wrote:No... he didn't...

Gozar wrote: As hard as it is to believe...Funimation actually looks better. >.<

I really didn't enjoy the colors in the Episode...It just looked very washed out. Obviously not as bleached Season 2 FUNi colors. But...uhg...I just didn't enjoy the colors. To be blunt, I think FUNi's Season Sets Season 3 are on actually look better color wise.

Note I specifically mentioned Season 3 and on. Season 1 was pretty bad and Season 2 looked like a piece of garbage.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:42 pm

Hmm, now that I think about it, wasn't there something in one of the promotion articles that said the special effects were being redone? If that's true, then why wasn't Burdock's ki blast at the beginning of the episode enhanced or anything? I was expecting them to look like the Jump Special's effects did. Freeza's already had a cool effect going for it, but I didn't notice any enhancements at all.

Unless my memory's failing me and they didn't say anything about special effects at all...

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:43 pm

I wonder where Episode 2 of DBKai is going to end. I'm guessing when Piccolo arrives on the scene?

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:45 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:I wonder where Episode 2 of DBKai is going to end. I'm guessing when Piccolo arrives on the scene?

I'm sure that'll happen before the eyecatch. I'm guessing it'll end with Goku and Piccolo either soaring off to find Raditz, or just arriving to fight him.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:48 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:I wonder where Episode 2 of DBKai is going to end. I'm guessing when Piccolo arrives on the scene?

I'm guessing when the two take off from Kame House.

If not a little into the battle with Raditz (like...the reveal of Piccolo's arm being gone? Then again...that'll make a good end of episode 3's first half). I forget what the titles are so I'll have to go check those to make sure...

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:49 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:I wonder where Episode 2 of DBKai is going to end. I'm guessing when Piccolo arrives on the scene?
I'm sure that'll happen before the eyecatch. I'm guessing it'll end with Goku and Piccolo either soaring off to find Raditz, or just arriving to fight him.

By the sound of the episode titles, there may not be much fighting in Episode 2, but Episode 3 is going to be a freakin' bloodbath.

April 5th ~ Episode 1
「闘いの幕開け！帰ってきたぞ孫悟空」
"The Curtain Opens on the Battle! Son Goku Returns"

April 12th ~ Episode 2
「敵は悟空の兄！？最強戦士サイヤ人の秘密」
"The Enemy is Goku's Older Brother!? The Secret of the Saiya-jin, Strongest of Warriors"

April 19th ~ Episode 3
「悟空とピッコロ最強タッグ！激闘ラディッツ戦（仮）」
"Goku and Piccolo's Strongest Tag-Team! The Fierce Battle Against Raditz (tentative title)"

April 26th ~ Episode 4
「孫悟空が死んじゃった…あの世とこの世のキビしい修行！（仮）」
"Son Goku is Dead... Fierce Training in the Afterlife and Living World! (tentative title)"

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Son Sebbe wrote:today it's 191 years since Chile got independent from Spain.

Today it's exactly 15 years since Kurt Cobain's death.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:09 pm

Bomber Greek wrote:
Son Sebbe wrote:today it's 191 years since Chile got independent from Spain.
Today it's exactly 15 years since Kurt Cobain's death.

As well as 7 years since Layne Staley's death (and 1 year since my cat's death).

-Corey

tarrin4ever · Post by **tarrin4ever** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:22 pm

Gozar wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:

Gonna make more comparisons down the line, plus the brightness looks messed up in a few of the snaps.
As hard as it is to believe...Funimation actually looks better. >.<

I really didn't enjoy the colors in the Episode...It just looked very washed out. Obviously not as bleached Season 2 FUNi colors. But...uhg...I just didn't enjoy the colors. To be blunt, I think FUNi's Season Sets Season 3 are on actually look better color wise.

I'm just making sure everybody remembers that this comparison isn't between Kai and the season sets, right?