Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

B · Post by B » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:55 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote:changes blood to a black ketchup (BLEACH)

... So the blood is dark. So what?

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:59 am

B wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:changes blood to a black ketchup (BLEACH)
... So the blood is dark. So what?

Maybe someone who is more EDUMACATED then I will know for sure but when it comes to deep wounds isn't blood really a dark red?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:24 am

Bussani wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:This might be a stupid question... but does it fit to call Dragon Ball Kai "Dragon Ball Z: Director's Cut" with cutting the filler and all that?
A director's cut is a cut to more closely match the 'director's' vision... Since this matches the manga more closely, I suppose it is sort of comparable to a director's cut.

People have this mistaken thought that a Directors cut can only be a directors cut if you add to it. This isn't true at all.
Prime example, Blade Runner. The Theatrical edition had SEVERAL last minute additions done by the studio, including narration over the entire movie with new scenes added to accommodate the narration. The Directors cut removes this and all the extra scenes made for it entirely, and after factoring in the few scenes that were added, the movie only comes out to being a minute longer than the theatrical cut.

Since Toriyama made the Manga, you could call this the "Author's Cut" but I like calling it a directors cut better because saying that makes people immediately know what you're talking about.

If someone asks what Dragon Ball Kai is, I could either say:
"Well it's Dragon Ball Z without all the Filler" "What's Filler" "Well, it's Anime-only Material the studio makes so they don't catch up to the Manga" "Oh" "Yeah, it's Dragon Ball Z without that"
VS
"It's a Directors Cut of Dragon Ball Z to make the Pacing like the Manga" Done

Saiyan · Post by **Saiyan** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:41 am

DemonRin wrote: If someone asks what Dragon Ball Kai is, I could either say:
"Well it's Dragon Ball Z without all the Filler" "What's Filler" "Well, it's Anime-only Material the studio makes so they don't catch up to the Manga" "Oh" "Yeah, it's Dragon Ball Z without that"
VS
"It's a Directors Cut of Dragon Ball Z to make the Pacing like the Manga" Done

When I described Kai to my friends, I said to them "It's DBZ without the bullshit." Accurate?

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:51 am

Right before the opening starts, those kana and kanji do say it's "Akira Toriyama's Original Cut Version", so it's probably right calling them Director's Cut.

@ Smooth Criminal:

It's not really censoring when Piccolo's blood IS supposed to be purple. Just because, at that time, Toei didn't know that it doesn't mean it wasn't an error. They could have just edited the blood out or reduced it, but they just recolored it to it's intended color.

Sure, Raditz's tail has no real excuse, but remember Kame-gi Kuririn in Namek? Yeah... that one hasn't either.

Goku's dick is kinda iffy, I mean, it's certainly NOT a big deal having it there but perhaps Japan's standarts don't allow it anyone. There are several things done back then that wouldn't be (as) accepted nowadays.

It's not like they digitally painted something stupid over it, they arranged that scene to fit the new version of the show. Sailor Moon had very few details over it's nudity and they were teenagers.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:37 pm

Is there any chance to get the subs in .srt format, or did somebody have contacts on fun-sub groups that made subs for Kai? Somebody gave me that before, but I lost it in this load of messages. I want to make czech translation of english subs, because (Ha! What a surprise!!!!) I can't speak in Japanese

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:58 pm

I am betting that over the coarse of the series that they will continue to add more recoloring and effort for that matter if this popular. The only thing that I dont like is how freaking soft the picture is in Kai or a lot of animes these days, but I will survive.

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:01 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:I am betting that over the coarse of the series that they will continue to add more recoloring and effort for that matter if this popular.

I wonder how many episodes have they already finished. The news of "Kai" seemed so sudden, even when Wasted Wisher leaked it.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:22 pm

I got a little behind on this post (bout ten pages...) so I’m replying to some really old posts here, please bear with me.

Kunzait_83 wrote:One Piece (which I very well may be the one lone Daizexer who flat out dislikes that series entirety, and gets especially irritated with it being crossed over with and mentioned in the same breath as Dragon Ball as relentlessly often as it is).

You’re not alone hon. I can’t stand that series. I read the whole first book of the manga and was bored out of my skull, find nothing appealing about the characters or their designs or the art or the plots I’ve been told about. And on top of that they’re Pirates, and as a proper Ninja I’m morally offended by them jamming their way into my Dragonball every time I turn around. (It’s mostly because it sucks though. My Ninja sensibilities don’t make Naruto a good show beyond Kakashi, for example.)

And sweet Kami people, we bitched for weeks about cropping before it settled down. Some of us *waves angry flag* are still bitching about cropping. Don’t act like we didn’t do it and claim it’s just because Toei is part of the Glorious Nippon.

Pic having purple blood in the Budokai flashback was one of my absolute favorite parts of the episode

It always bothered me re-watching the old stuff before Toriyama changed it to the ‘right’ color. This also makes me hope they’ll be fixing other little errors throughout the show ^^ And..... how could giving Pic purple blood -possibly- be a censorship issue when you look at much later events where people bleed red blood all over the damn place? Pic’s blood is purple because he’s a Nameccian and they have purple blood. The Sayiajin still have red because that’s how the Sayiajin are.

Whoever thinks it would be easy to remove a finger every frame of every scene someone shows up has never done animation before, I can tell you that much. Even the way they're doing things that would be a nightmare to remember -which- finger you were taking out and how to smooth the hand between every scene and... and they intentionally gave him five in the anime anyway.

Is Kai a godsend? No. It’s nice, but it has problems. I’m mostly just thrilled to have arguably new Dragonball airing on television again- having something almost new to follow, and the new influx to the fandom that it might bring. Helloooooo new doujinshi.....

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:31 pm

Purple blood also can't be censorship because we have red blood on Bardock.

Just in case nobody's mentioned that yet.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:58 pm

Haseowolf · Post by **Haseowolf** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:59 pm

MCDaveG wrote:Is there any chance to get the subs in .srt format, or did somebody have contacts on fun-sub groups that made subs for Kai? Somebody gave me that before, but I lost it in this load of messages. I want to make czech translation of english subs, because (Ha! What a surprise!!!!) I can't speak in Japanese

Or if some one could at least give me a little help ripping some subs from a hard subbed file. I've got a raw recording that's much better quality than any fansub out there, and I really just want to have this at a high quality with subs. If anyone can help, PM me.

Hope this doesn't violate anything, I'm just asking for some technical help is all, not asking for episodes or the like. Thanks!

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:28 pm

Just to let all you guys know, my co-worker and I have done a "DBKai Episode 1 with Commentary". Part 1 is uploading on YouTube right now.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:53 pm

I'm ultimately of the feeling that the pacing's great. I can't stand Drag-On Ball Z all that much only because of the pacing. Last time I watched it, I almost gave up in the middle of the USSj Trunks vs. Perfect Cell stuff. The voices and music were great, though. There was some pretty horrible art during the filler stuff in the Freeza and Cell arcs.

Seeing the vast majority of the series (up through the Great Saiyaman stuff) in more recent times, even in Dragonbox quality, has really helped me view the original series without a nostalgia filter. It just ended up being background noise when I would play the DVDs or find a stream of some episodes. I got bored really quickly and felt like doing other stuff.

With Dragonball Kai, I've watched the first episode at least five times and I've watched specific portions of the episode that I really liked for one reason or another even more since it first aired. I wouldn't be caught doing that with Dragonball Z.

In the end, I can't understand how it's "too fast" for a lot of people. I've watched a lot of animated stuff where more than that happens in 20 minutes. In the 14 or 15 minutes we had after the recap, we've barely established that we even have a villain. For people new to the show, they have to wait a week before they even know his name or why he's seeking Goku out! How is that too fast?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:16 pm

Kendamu wrote:In the end, I can't understand how it's "too fast" for a lot of people. I've watched a lot of animated stuff where more than that happens in 20 minutes. In the 14 or 15 minutes we had after the recap, we've barely established that we even have a villain. For people new to the show, they have to wait a week before they even know his name or why he's seeking Goku out! How is that too fast?

What do you Expect? People have been watching Drag-On Ball Z for ALL THIS TIME, it's been this way for 20 years!
It's just a LOT of people approaching it with a "They Changed it now it Sucks" mentality.
And that's always gonna happen with such a Broken Base as Dragon Ball Has.
I went into this not thinking about DBZ AT ALL!! I was only focussing on the manga going in, and found myself loving every minute of it!! I don't miss any of Gohan crying through the Forest at all!!

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:21 pm

DemonRin wrote: What do you Expect? People have been watching Drag-On Ball Z for ALL THIS TIME, it's been this way for 20 years!
It's just a LOT of people approaching it with a "They Changed it now it Sucks" mentality.
And that's always gonna happen with such a Broken Base as Dragon Ball Has.
I went into this not thinking about DBZ AT ALL!! I was only focussing on the manga going in, and found myself loving every minute of it!! I don't miss any of Gohan crying through the Forest at all!!

I love you, will you marry me? I completly agree with you, I've been waiting for someone to think like that

EDIT: I just read that link, it's awesome

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:27 pm

DemonRin wrote:
Kendamu wrote:In the end, I can't understand how it's "too fast" for a lot of people. I've watched a lot of animated stuff where more than that happens in 20 minutes. In the 14 or 15 minutes we had after the recap, we've barely established that we even have a villain. For people new to the show, they have to wait a week before they even know his name or why he's seeking Goku out! How is that too fast?
What do you Expect? People have been watching Drag-On Ball Z for ALL THIS TIME, it's been this way for 20 years!
It's just a LOT of people approaching it with a "They Changed it now it Sucks" mentality.
And that's always gonna happen with such a Broken Base as Dragon Ball Has.
I went into this not thinking about DBZ AT ALL!! I was only focussing on the manga going in, and found myself loving every minute of it!! I don't miss any of Gohan crying through the Forest at all!!

I remember using TV Tropes to explain my feelings on the matter the other night! Good stuff!

I went into it thinking of the manga, also. It was easy to do considering that every TV ad for it so far (including the subtitled ones) and the title screen before the intro says "Toriyama cut" on it or that it'll be closer to Toriyama's cut. So far, I'm impressed with the pacing.

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:39 pm

I have no problem with the pacing. At all. I could imagine that some people would think that the first episode was going a little fast, but I for one love the speed that they are going at.

I'm not sure if I want the five minutes on Namek to be literally five minutes, but I'm sure I'll be happy with the outcome judging from how they handled the first episode

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:15 pm

I'd still rather have Dragon Ball's filler rather than the current Shounen anime angle where they tack on 20+ episode arcs. Like seriously the closest Dragon Ball gets to a long ass filler arc is the Garlic Jr. arc which is only 12 or so episodes and isn't that bad compared to 80 episodes of Naruto filler and some of the crappy One Piece fillers which are completely unavoidable unlike in Dragon Ball where you can just, key word, SKIP THEM.

But seriously it's been said already the filler in Dragon Ball was at least entertaining and if you didn't like it then you could skip it. The entertainment factor for Gohan's walking through the woods arc in Kai was just stupid and tacked on all for the sake of time it seemed.

Basically I'll answer some of the pacing issues from my POV. Most of the imagery and tone that I liked in the original anime barely even make it to Kai. Let's take Radditz's flight to Kame House at the very end of episode 1. The creepy images showing Goku being put into a space pod combined with the music and all of this talk about Saiya-jin warriors, and Kakarotto was just downright freaky. Now Kai on the other hand does not even show this scene even though it is an important one and most of the suspense surrounding who the hell Radditz is is not not as suspenseful. Instead we have Radditz just plain flying around and meeting Piccolo just to, IMO, leave as quickly as he came. and then there's some of the scenes at Kame House before Radditz comes around.

OK, I do agree with Kunzait about the music altering the tone, but not to one of a "newer shounen series" only just plain altering it. A lot of the music at the beginning of the Z arcs is either suspenseful or let's say "adventurous" for the Gohan pieces. In addition to that most of the more freaky and emotion written pieces from the previous 153 episodes are still used throughout "The 'Choir' Piece. Take the scene after Piccolo encounters Radditz in the original anime to Kai's version. I honestly did not feel like Radditz was a "threat" like how I did in the original anime. I don't know why but I'm going to partially blame the music that was used. It was just, random for the only piece that Yamamoto could've thought of was a piece that sounded like it should've been in Star Wars. I felt like the entire was just lacking something.

In the end regarding the music I find it very hard to accept it as it is now, even if it's done by a Dragon Ball music veteran such as Kenji Yamamoto. It's just that the tone of the music does not feel very Dragon Ball-ish even compared to all of the video games that he composed for. It just feels like "new" music to replace "old" music much like how Funi did.

B · Post by B » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:33 pm

Vekurotto wrote:I'd still rather have Dragon Ball's filler rather than the current Shounen anime angle where they tack on 20+ episode arcs. Like seriously the closest Dragon Ball gets to a long ass filler arc is the Garlic Jr. arc which is only 12 or so episodes and isn't that bad compared to 80 episodes of Naruto filler and some of the crappy One Piece fillers which are completely unavoidable unlike in Dragon Ball where you can just, key word, SKIP THEM.

Well yeah, you say that NOW, but 20 years ago when people were watching it as it aired in Japan, they couldn't skip it. And 20 years from now, people can skip One Piece's and Naruto's filler.