Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:48 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Toriyama the god/Kami of Dragonball has spoken
More like, "James Wong has spoken".
Remember how Ursula K. Le Guin had allegedly spoken regarding Ghibli's Tales from Earthsea...

Why would the man lie? There have been many occasions where the "real Dragonball fans" believe Toriyama would think a certain why just because they do and find out Toriyama feelings lay with the “not real Dragonball fans” group.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:53 pm

Should it even matter?

If Toriyama made GT, does that mean we have to automatically like it?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Just as long as Toriyama got a paycheck, I think he's happy.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Why would the man lie?

Because... he's promoting his movie?

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Tsukento wrote:If Toriyama made GT, does that mean we have to automatically like it?

Well... if Toriyama made GT, it would probably actually be good, so...

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:57 pm

The Tori-bot wrote:Well... if Toriyama made GT, it would probably actually be good, so...

I meant if GT was the way it was cause of Toriyama.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:57 pm

Tsukento wrote:Should it even matter?

If Toriyama made GT, does that mean we have to automatically like it?

I was not saying that, I asked if anyone opinions would change now. Some come across as if Toriyama touches it or likes it whatever the project consist of it is automatically gold. This could be that they value his opinion highly or that they just wanted to be in the so-called “real Dragonball fan” category.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:09 pm

Except, that's the point I'm making.

If Toriyama had direct involvement with DBE or GT, it shouldn't mean people have to automatically like it just because he was involved.

Toriyama's stated he wished he could have thought of the things Toei did for GT, yet people still dislike and even hate the show.

There's also the matter of Toriyama himself stating that it's probably best to look at the movie as some sort of other dimension for Dragon Ball and that he wasn't too sure about what to make of it. Plus he said he liked the cast. Doesn't imply he liked the cast AS the characters.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:49 pm

I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing.

I do not know if anyone already post it so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Bz3jHYzL4

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:59 pm

You can find interviews from 1986 where Steve Gerbr praised the Howard the Duck movie. When questioned about it years later he was paid to keep quiet. From every interview I have read, Toriyama comes across as a very polite humble man. It is not his style to outright bury anything anyone else has done.

I do not think anybody would deny GT came up with some good ideas/concepts. Super Saiyan 4 was a great design and a good concept. Bebui was a really good vllian. who could be a challenge without being outright more powerful. I think its fair to note Toriyama makes sure to note GT is not a true continuation of Dragonball.

Why would the man lie?

To gain fan support for his bastardization.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:00 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing.

Well, on one hand, we have a message from Toriyama saying he thought "huh?" when he saw what was going on and adding "but hey, they're all nice people, and you never know: it could turn out to be a masterpiece!", and on the other hand, we have the director saying that the Fox Japan people told him that "Toriyama loved it".
One might wonder who's "changing Toriyama's words".

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:09 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing.

Tell me about it...

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:26 pm

I still firmly believe from Toriyama's early comments that he didn't really like it that much. But that's neither here nor there.

I was debating whether I wanted to comment on the movie here. In all seriousness, since about the time the Jr. Novels came out, I just feel burnt out regarding this subject. It's like, the movie turned out pretty much like I was expecting. So all my arguing from the day we got news of this turned out to be true. It's just like, I'd be more or less repeating everything that I've been saying for a year. In all honesty, I don't really care that much anymore. It's kind of like the Widescreen thing with FUNi's sets. After about a year, no one cared anymore. I feel the same way with DBE.

But I would like to make a few comments. Nothing to in depth, but here we go...

I went on Opening Day, and get this, this is pretty damn funny...I went on Friday (Like I said) which was the first day of Spring Break in my area. I went at 5:00 pm, in other words. The day and time were the PERFECT time to go out and see a movie. And yet there were 4 people in the entire theater counting myself and my sister. We found that pretty funny. Actually, we were the first in there and the 3'rd person didn't come in until the previews. So we were hoping we'd wind up being the only ones in there so we can boo and yell at the screen.

But of course there were 2 other people, and we have respect.

Anyway, I've got to say, this movie set it's self up from the very start. Scene #1 is a tear rolling down Chatku's face. I kind of just sighed and chuckled.

As far as Chatku went...I don't think we were expecting anything different. He was your everyday stereotypical American teen character. Out of the 100 minutes the movie ran, I got 10 seconds worth of something that felt like Goku. I am referring to the eating of the Chicken Leg while Bulma was looking for Muten Roshi. It actually felt like when they'd do something Goku-esque, they'd just screw it up. Take the scene when Chatku said Chi-Chi was an odd name. That was a very Goku thing to do. But then of course he gets flustered and stuttery in a very teen dork type way. Then of course we have the epic, Chatku can't do a Kamehameha, until he gets to takes steps closer to Chi-Chi. I mean come on now. Oh, and Chatku's dialogue was soooo over the top. I mean it makes Funimation look good here.

As for Muten Roshi, he was without a shred of a doubt the most faithfully portrayed character in the movie. There was some things that I can nit-pick at. But for the most part, he was actually pretty damn on key. He was goofy and perverted. Serious when need be. Chow Yun Fat was definitely the best actor in the entire movie IMO. It's kind of funny, Roshi's the most faithfully portrayed personality wise. Yet looks the least like Roshi.

Yamcha...was...er...It's almost like they heard Sabat's Yamcha Voice. Then wrote the character and told the actor to just act like a surfer douchebag. I mean they got the bandit background right, and tried to apply it with the flirty personality we hear of later. Which I didn't mind. But, just the way he was like a surfer douche...Uhg. I mean seriously, from the very first line Yamcha uttered, my sister turned to me and said "He sounds like Yamcha".

Piccolo...was hardly in the movie. I really couldn't get that good of a feel for him. I think this portrayal would have worked FAR better as Piccolo Jr. rather than Daimao.

Bulma...Fox seems to have confused feisty and headstrong female with complete and utter bitch.

The storyline was, odd. I mean it's truly like they were just throwing random plot ideas in there. It seemed cluttered and rushed. I mean I knew it wasn't going to be very much like DB's plotline...But this was just...Nothing what so ever resembling DB. In all seriousness, the only time I got a DB feel was Roshi and the Mafuba. I'm sick of hearing people say that we need to be more accepting of change and that things need to be changed for an adaption. Though this may be true to an extent. This movie was just your every day American Teen Super Hero Movie with the DragonBall Logo and names slapped on it.

Finally, the final battle, was an utter disappointment. Who would have guessed that that scenes of Chatku and Piccolo's fight we got in the trailer was literally half of the fight. DragonBall is so famous for it's epic battles and of course final villain battles. This was quick and boring. What? A few Ki infused punches, they knock each other back. Then the final clash of Kamehameha Vs. Piccolo's Giant Red Ki Blast?

Oh, and I literally laughed out loud at the end when Toriyama is listed as an Executive Producer.

Edit: Oh yeah...And the Final Kamehameha...Um...Could it have been acted any worse? This is a fairly well budgeted Hollywood Movie and they can't get an actor who can deliver "Kamehameha" on the same level as Sean Schemmel? Or Kirby Morrow even?

Olivier Hague wrote:Well, on one hand, we have a message from Toriyama saying he thought "huh?" when he saw what was going on and adding "but hey, they're all nice people, and you never know: it could turn out to be a masterpiece!", and on the other hand, we have the director saying that the Fox Japan people told him that "Toriyama loved it".
One might wonder who's "changing Toriyama's words".

Nice.

ultimateemail5000 · Post by **ultimateemail5000** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing.

I do not know if anyone already post it so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Bz3jHYzL4

That seriously reminds me of Troma movies when people are always dancing in the streets, or in the background. Was this dance in the movie?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:33 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing...

In light of what others have stated we do not know who is telling the truth, we all can take it however, we like.

B · Post by B » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:54 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:I am amazed how many people find a way to completely change Akira Toriyama's words to fit their believe. Sometimes I almost kill myself laughing.
Well, on one hand, we have a message from Toriyama saying he thought "huh?" when he saw what was going on and adding "but hey, they're all nice people, and you never know: it could turn out to be a masterpiece!", and on the other hand, we have the director saying that the Fox Japan people told him that "Toriyama loved it".
One might wonder who's "changing Toriyama's words".

I believe the message also said Toriyama still had some qualms with the movie.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:05 pm

...Why does it matter whether or not Toriyama likes the movie, anyway? We're all separately-thinking human beings. He can like stuff that we hate just like anybody. Hell, we can even not like something he made if we want. So what?

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:17 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:...Why does it matter whether or not Toriyama likes the movie, anyway? We're all separately-thinking human beings. He can like stuff that we hate just like anybody. Hell, we can even not like something he made if we want. So what?

No one's trying to justify their own like or dislike or anyone elses with what Toriyama thinks. I think it just feels kind of good to think that the creator of DragonBall is on your side.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:35 pm

Just got back from watching the movie for a second time. Over all I really enjoy the movie. I have some problems with it, but I remember that it's a childrens movie based on a childrens series.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:56 pm

Gozar wrote:I think it just feels kind of good to think that the creator of DragonBall is on your side.

In my case, it's not so much that he's "on my side," but more like some refreshing reassurance that I'm NOT crazy for liking what I see.