Do you think this "DBE" movie garnered any new fan

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:12 am

SSJ2bardock wrote:
Kendamu wrote:It isn't that accurate. The overall point was that Piccolo needed to hold off Freeza until Goku could join the battle. In the dub, Kaio implies that Piccolo has a chance of winning and tells Yamcha to have faith.

Kaiosama: No... I'm just saying that for some strange reason he's stronger but he's still no match for Freeza.
Explain to me how that implies he has a chance of winning.

I said the wrong character's name. I meant that Tenshinhan implied that Piccolo had a chance of winning. This is what happens when I type my response on a PSP: I don't get the opportunity to go back and look at who exactly said what.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:51 am

Dr. Casey wrote:Wait, what? Not only does that have nothing to do with what was actually said, but it's a stupid quote in its own right. Yamcha knew Piccolo would botch things? Uh, why? He's consistently been the most powerful fighter after Son Goku as well as a helpful, reliable ally in the one year since Radditz arrived. There's nothing in his history to point towards failure.

Playing devil's advocate here, so let's see.

Piccolo was the bad guy until just over a month ago?
Yamcha died before seeing Piccolo be helpful?
Piccolo failed against Goku at the 23rd Budokai and failed against the Saiyans?

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:22 am

Rocketman wrote:
Dr. Casey wrote:Wait, what? Not only does that have nothing to do with what was actually said, but it's a stupid quote in its own right. Yamcha knew Piccolo would botch things? Uh, why? He's consistently been the most powerful fighter after Son Goku as well as a helpful, reliable ally in the one year since Radditz arrived. There's nothing in his history to point towards failure.

Playing devil's advocate here, so let's see.

Piccolo was the bad guy until just over a month ago?
Yamcha died before seeing Piccolo be helpful?
Piccolo failed against Goku at the 23rd Budokai and failed against the Saiyans?

And a moment ago they were kicking up a fuss after Piccolo said he should be the first one wished back.
I thought the original line implies Yamcha is a bit of a selfish jerk for wanting to be brought back to life when the others are risking their lives against Freeza... That attitude is sorta carried across into his dub line.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:50 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:So anyway, about the topic at hand. I don't think that the series could start up any new fans. By new fans, that means people who have never watched the show. If it's totally different, how could it? When they'd watch the anime, they'd be like, "What is this? It's so wrong!" Besides, there's virtually no way for new fans to get into it. The show isn't on TV anymore and I doubt they'd go buying all the DVDs, spending an insane amount of money just because they might've (God...) liked the movie. They'd probably just buy the Dragon Ball Evolution DVD instead. Saves time, money, and energy. Also, they'd know what they're getting.

Anyway, I haven't seen the movie and won't see it until it comes onto one of the movie channels (HBO, Cinemax, etc.) because I refuse to spend any money on it. I heard the WORST things about it from people who saw it.

Yes, that movie is waste of money.... Even my younger brother was pissed off, an he's only six, watching DB from his 4 years and seen it from Dragon Ball to Z Freeza Saga. First thing he said was: ,,Why the Goku have hair like Yamcha and going to school?'' The only thing he liked was Piccolo, because he is his favourite character, but was dissaponited, that he wasn't at that movie too much and climax fight was awful short......

I hoped so, It will be like Mortal Kombat and there isn't any bigger fight if you don't count that school idiots where Goku is behaving like other teen idiot

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:53 am

Alright... I am going to reveal a shame of mine that is relevant to this situation.

When I was eight years old, I got really into Batman after finding Batman & Robin neat.

So yes... no matter how bad a movie is, there will always be people who like it, and want to check out more of the franchise...or even get into it out of curiosity, after hearing how much better it is than the movie.

Deep Thought · Post by **Deep Thought** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:44 am

Alright, guys, lets end this Dub vs Movie in terms of trueness thing right now.

Fan A watched the dub of the Piccolo Daimao arc.

Fan B watched Dragon Ball Evolution.

Fan A and B (with the knowledge of these two media forms VERY fresh in their heads) have to take a test. The test asks questions about the Piccolo Daimao Arc FROM THE MANGA. So, basically, both fans A and B are going to get SOME questions wrong.

The test is moderate in difficulty. It won't asked you "what was this exact line" but it'll ask you kind of obscure stuff.

Fan A has no knowledge of DB:E and Fan B has no knowledge of the Piccolo Daimao Arc besides as it was depicted in the movie.

Guess who will ace the test so hard that it is almost sad? Guess who will almost fail it?

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:58 am

... What was that? It was way too elaborate and long just to say that the movie doesn't follow the storyline. And you still found a way to throw in that the manga is "better" than the others.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:52 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:... What was that? It was way too elaborate and long just to say that the movie doesn't follow the storyline. And you still found a way to throw in that the manga is "better" than the others.

Well, you can't get more accurate to the storyline than the manga...

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:01 am

The Tori-bot wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:... What was that? It was way too elaborate and long just to say that the movie doesn't follow the storyline. And you still found a way to throw in that the manga is "better" than the others.
Well, you can't get more accurate to the storyline than the manga...

Not everyone reads or wants to read the manga. Many just enjoy different types of entertainment mediums it is not saying anything about a person’s intelligence or Dragonball but some leave reading to more important things.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:28 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:... What was that? It was way too elaborate and long just to say that the movie doesn't follow the storyline. And you still found a way to throw in that the manga is "better" than the others.
Well, you can't get more accurate to the storyline than the manga...
Not everyone reads or wants to read the manga. Many just enjoy different types of entertainment mediums it is not saying anything about a person’s intelligence or Dragonball but some leave reading to more important things.

I think this is a really funny statement on a message board.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:31 am

Kendamu wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote: Well, you can't get more accurate to the storyline than the manga...
Not everyone reads or wants to read the manga. Many just enjoy different types of entertainment mediums it is not saying anything about a person’s intelligence or Dragonball but some leave reading to more important things.
I think this is a really funny statement on a message board.

I see what you mean but I thought that the discussion was focused towards individuals that did not like the franchise enough to actually join an internet discussion forum.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:15 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote: Not everyone reads or wants to read the manga. Many just enjoy different types of entertainment mediums it is not saying anything about a person’s intelligence or Dragonball but some leave reading to more important things.
I think this is a really funny statement on a message board.
I see what you mean but I thought that the discussion was focused towards individuals that did not like the franchise enough to actually join an internet discussion forum.

Oh, I got it. I just thought it was funny, anyway. I imagined someone who participated on Internet discussion forums and watched subtitled DBZ citing his dislike for reading as to why he avoids the manga.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:08 pm

He meant in general. I have the entire manga on my computer but I do not ever read it. It has pretty pictures I guess (I like the art style around the Cell Saga), but other than that, I just can't really get into it. When watching the anime, it's got voices and music and it's basically watching TV. I'd have to be seriously bored to sit down and read a comic book. Was never a comic book fan. If I'm bored enough to sit around and read, it's going to be a book. I don't think that someone's dislike for reading particularly would turn them away from the manga since in my opinion there isn't enough writing in it to even fill up a small book.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:17 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:He meant in general.

As I said in my previous post, I got it.

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:11 pm

Kendamu wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:He meant in general.
As I said in my previous post, I got it.

LMAO!

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:22 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:He meant in general. I have the entire manga on my computer but I do not ever read it. It has pretty pictures I guess (I like the art style around the Cell Saga), but other than that, I just can't really get into it. When watching the anime, it's got voices and music and it's basically watching TV. I'd have to be seriously bored to sit down and read a comic book. Was never a comic book fan. If I'm bored enough to sit around and read, it's going to be a book. I don't think that someone's dislike for reading particularly would turn them away from the manga since in my opinion there isn't enough writing in it to even fill up a small book.

I think you missed Tori-bot and Deep Thought's points. One medium clearly isn't better than another (for the exact reasons you listed and more), but if you're going to address the topic of which is closest to the source material, the Japanese manga will always be the best answer because it flat out is the source material. You may prefer the anime or a movie, but it won't be the same story to the letter.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:36 pm

Well I have a theory that some may not agree with, but that I find seems to make sense. That there is more than one "canon". Not sure if that's the proper word for it, but here's my explanation. There are (as of late) three "canons" that exist. Manga canon, anime canon, and now movie canon. Goku and Piccolo taking the driving test is not part of the manga or movie canon, but it is part of the anime canon. Just like GT is not part of the manga or movie canon, but it is of the anime. The manga canon is true for the anime, but not for the movie. Now the movie does not fit in with the manga or anime canon, but it will begin its own path. Does anyone know what I'm saying?

Like a super hero comic book, and I hate to use this reference, but I will. Origin stories have been done and redone many times. Now in one storyline one thing may happen, but in another storyline a totally other thing might happen and the two can never coincide. Well it all depends on what story you want to follow. I personally like to follow the anime because that is what I'm a fan of. Others want to follow the manga. New fans that have never picked up the series would want to follow the movie and so be it. But if the movie starts coming out with strings of sequels, nobody can deny the "facts" that come out of the movie when referring to that as a source. And actually, I feel like the dub has its own "canon" when we are referring to the dub itself. The dub, the original, the manga, and the movie can not be discussed in the same argument.

The truest information will always come out of the manga is true when we're talking about truthfulness from the original author, but when we're talking about facts of the anime, filler and GT are fully qualified to be sources. Know what I mean? It's the same with this new movie now. It's not that it went against the original story, it's that from what I've heard, the movie was absolutely horrible. But if someone were to come on here and start talking about "facts" from the movie, nobody can really deny those if we're talking about the movie.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:43 pm

... Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of "canon" in general?

I can see where you're coming from, though.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:51 pm

Well when someone is talking about the manga, nobody can throw filler facts into it. But if someone is talking about the anime, nobody can debunk it by saying, "Yeah well that's not in the manga." At least that's how I see it.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:33 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Well when someone is talking about the manga, nobody can throw filler facts into it. But if someone is talking about the anime, nobody can debunk it by saying, "Yeah well that's not in the manga." At least that's how I see it.

For me there's only one canon but different continuites, and what you'd be refering to is the different continuities.

Canon/Continuity 1: Canon would be the Dragonball manga and nothing but the DB manga. It would therefore also be one continuity of DB.

Continuity 2: Every manga that takes part in the same world as Dragonball (Dr Slump, NMZ, Wonder Isand, etc).

Continuity 3: The anime and anime specials.

Continuity 4: The continuity in which GT and its special is a continuation to the anime.

Continuity 5: The movies that fit within the manga and anime's continuities.

Continuity 6: The movies that fit withing the anime's continuity, but because they are not manga, they aren't part of the manga's continuity.

Continuity 7: Movies that don't fit with the manga or anime. (anime movies, OVA, live action). Each movie (barring sequels) is essentially its own continuity.

Continuity 8: Guide books (Daizenshuu, Forever, etc)'s supplementals.

By definition, canon must be continuity #1, but in my opinion, it's up to everybody to decide for themselves what they consider to be a "true" continuity. Personally, I see there being two: a "true manga continuity" and a "true anime continuity." For me, the manga consists of the Bardock special, the manga based on the new special, and continuities 2 and 8. Meanwhile the anime consists of continuites 4, 5, and 8.