Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:01 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Naruto has the States

It does?

Saiyan-Professor wrote:and who does not like Clark?

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:07 am

Yeah, I was under the impression that Smallville Clark was real unpopular.

I mean, I like the show, but a lot of people bag it out.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:10 am

The way I see it, the only good thing to come out of Smallville was Kristen Kreuk.

And after seeing Chun-Li, I'm totally rethinking my stance on that.

But seriously. I don't want Goku to be like some emo Superman, and I sure as hell don't want him like one of those overrated ninja people.

Maybe, I dunno, he should just be, um, Goku? THERE'S A NOVEL IDEA.

anomaly · Post by **anomaly** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:19 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Kingdom Heartless wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I still think it was because of Clark from Smallville and Naruto that “Goku’s” personality and for the better in my opinion. While the rest of the world may be in love with that sickeningly cheerful One Piece, Naruto has the States and who does not like Clark?
See, I've always found your logic on this matter flawed. What these characters are like is completely irrlevent. What matters is what the characters originally were.

If they decided to make Vegeta into a character who hated to fight, but did so anyway because he wanted to make his father proud, and hated being a bad guy, how would that make you feel? I wouldn't even consider that as much of a change as Chatku.
It will still be Vegeta and as long as he eventually fights and turns Super Saiyan, I would be happy. I embrace change and I knew from the beginning that they were going in a different direction. Sometimes you need to freshen up old things up and make them relevant and contemporary. I love the original for all the memories it holds for me but I am not going to have a bitch fit over somebody changing something when the creator gave Fox the permission to do so. That is Toriyama’s artistic and intellectual property it pays his bills and puts food on his table not mine. If he really does not mind other people jacking with it who am I to scream and whine. Many Dragonball fans act as if they own Dragonball, but they do not. If Toriyama scraps the original and decides to redraw it with Kakarrot modeled after the DBE “Goku”, what can anyone do but not buy the manga yet where one fan leaves maybe three present-day fans will pick it up and read.

Toriyama didn't gave them the permission, Toei did. We heard what Toriyama said when he saw the movie....he was a bit irritated but you know how the japanese are, they don't really say what they are thinking (über-politeness).
For me the movie could have also been called "Bulletproof Monk 2.0" and it wouldn't have made any difference to me .... it sucks (like the first one did)....
I'm not saying its wrong to change something to improve the movie, like Zack Snider did with the costumes in watchman. But turning around the plot by swapping the knowledge of Goku and Bulma about the Dragonballs or make Goku to be an angsty high school student is like turning Clark Kent into a janitor who fears real life....

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:31 am

Kingdom Heartless wrote:Yeah, I was under the impression that Smallville Clark was real unpopular.

I mean, I like the show, but a lot of people bag it out.

Well someone must like him because the show has been on for 8 or 9 seasons.

anomaly wrote:...Toriyama didn't gave them the permission, Toei did. We heard what Toriyama said when he saw the movie....he was a bit irritated but you know how the japanese are, they don't really say what they are thinking (über-politeness)....

We already had the Toriyama feelings discussion and it is so much junk out there we do not know what the man actually said and what others have him saying.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:32 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Sometimes you need to freshen up old things up and make them relevant and contemporary.

Could you elaborate on how Dragon Ball Evolution is more relevant or contemporary than the manga from which it's adapted? The Dragon Ball manga itself is fairly young, finishing in 1995, and both stories seem timeless in the sense that neither use pop culture references that will be hard for the later generations to grasp. Really, I think Dragon Ball would be just as accessible to a kid reading it for the first time today as a kid reading it during its beginnings in 1984; I can't think of any material that requires a 1980s/1990s mindset or context to appreciate.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:37 am

Dr. Casey wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Sometimes you need to freshen up old things up and make them relevant and contemporary.
Could you elaborate on how Dragon Ball Evolution is more relevant or contemporary than the manga from which it's adapted? The Dragon Ball manga itself is fairly young, finishing in 1995, and both stories seem timeless in the sense that neither use pop culture references that will be hard for the later generations to grasp. Really, I think Dragon Ball would be just as accessible to a kid reading it for the first time today as a kid reading it during its beginnings in 1984; I can't think of any material that requires a 1980s/1990s mindset or context to appreciate.

Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives, people can relate to what some on here call “angst” or “emo”. Also we need some new music that Hanna Barbera stuff needs to go. That is why I liked the fact that Rule was on the sound track.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:41 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote: Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives can relate to what people call “angst” or “emo”.

I wasn't under the impression that Dragon Ball was ever supposed to reflect real life.

that Hanna Barbera stuff needs to go

Hanna-Barbera? Seriously?

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:49 am

The Tori-bot wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote: Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives can relate to what people call “angst” or “emo”.
I wasn't under the impression that Dragon Ball was ever supposed to reflect real life. :?

What? You never noticed the flying monkey people and murderous androids all over the place? Los Angeles is CRAWLING (In their skin?) with them!

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:51 am

I think Dragon Ball does reflect real life quite a bit - not regarding the supernatural elements, obviously, but some of the more ordinary it portrays very well. It's like Kunzait said once upon a time...

Friends and enemies drop in and drop out and yet life in this universe always marches on. I like that. It’s very true to life in that respect. Stories that grow and evolve organically like that are the kind of stories I find I most respond to. The story’s main constant is that it usually stays focused on Son Goku… but his supporting cast are a revolving door of old and new faces that come and go with the passage of time.

It's kind of like with the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai. There's a scene where Android 18 has a little moment with Marron in the same room that Kami spoke with Chichi 17 years before. You can still feel the ghost of that chat, even though it's so very, very far away. That reminds me of how certain locations bring to mind certain times that have long since passed, or people who used to share those locations with me that are now on the opposite end of the revolving door and whom I might never see again.

Or... something like that. I'm sleepy. Point taken that Dragon Ball Evolution contains certain elements not found in the series proper, though.

anomaly · Post by **anomaly** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:55 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Dr. Casey wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Sometimes you need to freshen up old things up and make them relevant and contemporary.
Could you elaborate on how Dragon Ball Evolution is more relevant or contemporary than the manga from which it's adapted? The Dragon Ball manga itself is fairly young, finishing in 1995, and both stories seem timeless in the sense that neither use pop culture references that will be hard for the later generations to grasp. Really, I think Dragon Ball would be just as accessible to a kid reading it for the first time today as a kid reading it during its beginnings in 1984; I can't think of any material that requires a 1980s/1990s mindset or context to appreciate.
Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives, people can relate to what some on here call “angst” or “emo”. Also we need some new music that Hanna Barbera stuff needs to go. That is why I liked the fact that Rule was on the sound track.

Since when is it necessary that every movie has to reflect real life, with your argument you render most scifi-movies useless. What's so cool about having an blunt emo main character anyway, i don't get it, it makes me sick....
Movies are ment to offer the audience a change to leave the reality behind and enjoy themself with action, fun etc. which not everyone is blessed in real life....

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:06 am

Toriyama didn't gave them the permission, Toei did. We heard what Toriyama said when he saw the movie....he was a bit irritated but you know how the japanese are, they don't really say what they are thinking (über-politeness).

What did he say?

Since when is it necessary that every movie has to reflect real life, with your argument you render most scifi-movies useless. What's so cool about having an blunt emo main character anyway, i don't get it, it makes me sick....
Movies are ment to offer the audience a change to leave the reality behind and enjoy themself with action, fun etc. which not everyone is blessed in real life....

See, I'm not into calling characters who show real human emotions "emo." I mean, I was probably kind of close to Chatku as a teenager... unpopular, after the beautiful girl who wasn't interested... secretly super powerful...

... that doesn't make someone "emo." It's just that it's not Goku. It doesn't bother me with characters like Peter Parker. I think "emo" is an extremely overused word for movie characters.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:09 am

From what I remember, he said that he was confused by some of the movie's decisions (Translation: What the hell are these people doing with my story?) and that it was best to think of it as an alternate reality (Translation: Please don't associate my writing with this piece of shit).

anomaly · Post by **anomaly** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:45 am

Kingdom Heartless wrote:
Since when is it necessary that every movie has to reflect real life, with your argument you render most scifi-movies useless. What's so cool about having an blunt emo main character anyway, i don't get it, it makes me sick....
Movies are ment to offer the audience a change to leave the reality behind and enjoy themself with action, fun etc. which not everyone is blessed in real life....
See, I'm not into calling character who show real human emotions "emo." I mean, I was probably kind of close to Chatku as a teenager... unpopular, after the beautiful girl who wasn't interested... secretly super powerful... ... that doesn't make someone "emo." It's just that it's not Goku. It doesn't bother me with characters like Peter Parker. I think "emo" is an extremely overused word for movie characters.

I think you got me a bit wrong, I'm not calling every character that has emotions an emo. Emo stands for me as an shortcut for an "angsty (nerdy) high school student, sometimes with hidden superpowers, that has a crush on the girlfriend of the quaterback". You know I'm so sick and tired of this sterotype as main character like in DBE, Spiederman, Transformers etc., it's always the same....

That doesn't fit Goku, he's more like Tarzan who knows Kung-Fu....

B · Post by B » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:20 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Naruto has the States
It does?

Haha, are you kidding? Yes, Naruto has the States. The general populus of American anime fans don't care about One Piece. That'd be the online community, i.e. all of us.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:31 am

Chuquita wrote:(The remainder being disgust and disappointment in all those unnecessary alterations made to Goku's character for the movie. As if they felt the original Goku wasn't "good enough" for them. How ironic is that; a storyline about accepting yourself for who you are, written for a character who's original qualities were deemed unfit and discarded by those who created the movie itself?)

Wow, nice insight. I like it

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:43 am

anomaly wrote: I think you got me a bit wrong, I'm not calling every character that has emotions an emo. Emo stands for me as an shortcut for an "angsty (nerdy) high school student, sometimes with hidden superpowers, that has a crush on the girlfriend of the quaterback". You know I'm so sick and tired of this sterotype as main character like in DBE, Spiederman, Transformers etc., it's always the same....
That doesn't fit Goku, he's more like Tarzan who knows Kung-Fu....

If we're calling Shia's Sam "emo" then I think we are seriously misusing this term.

And I mean SERIOUSLY.

We might as well call DBE's Yamucha deep and introspective while we're at it.

And to be completely honest, it doesn't fit Tobey's Parker either, though one could make a case for Spidey 2. The way it's used (Spiderman 3 cuz he wears black and wets his hair!!!) is wrong.

Hell, I wouldn't even count DBE's Goku (unless the prerequisites for emo are cocky and horny). His characterization didn't come off as manga-Goku, but he wasn't written as an emo.

Or Clark from Smallville. Just an angsty teen. And the last few seasons that Super stick up the ass has shown up. But aggravatingly annoying and hypocritical =/= emo.

That's nothing against you, anomaly. It's just... that word gets tossed out there all the time to basically describe teenagers in general, anyone with a crush, or anyone who broods over basically anything. By today's standards, the movie renditions of Iron Man, Wolverine (before the memory loss, and yes I'm a bad person, moving on), Ben Grimm, Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Banner are emo too (since they all have some issue to angst about).

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:51 am

B wrote:
Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Naruto has the States
It does?
Haha, are you kidding? Yes, Naruto has the States. The general populus of American anime fans don't care about One Piece. That'd be the online community, i.e. all of us.

Can you rephrase that please? I am not getting what you saying.

Onikage725 wrote:...And to be completely honest, it doesn't fit Tobey's Parker either, though one could make a case for Spidey 2. The way it's used (Spiderman 3 cuz he wears black and wets his hair!!!) is wrong.

Hell, I wouldn't even count DBE's Goku (unless the prerequisites for emo are cocky and horny). His characterization didn't come off as manga-Goku, but he wasn't written as an emo.

Or Clark from Smallville. Just an angsty teen. And the last few seasons that Super stick up the ass has shown up. But aggravatingly annoying and hypocritical =/= emo.

That's nothing against you, anomaly. It's just... that word gets tossed out there all the time to basically describe teenagers in general, anyone with a crush, or anyone who broods over basically anything. By today's standards, the movie renditions of Iron Man, Wolverine (before the memory loss, and yes I'm a bad person, moving on), Ben Grimm, Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Banner are emo too (since they all have some issue to angst about).

I agree with you hear a lot of terms gets thrown around in order to belittle or degrade in the case of this forum characters they dislike regards if the word fits or not.

The Tori-bot wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote: Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives can relate to what people call “angst” or “emo”.
I wasn't under the impression that Dragon Ball was ever supposed to reflect real life.
that Hanna Barbera stuff needs to go
Hanna-Barbera? Seriously?

I am speaking from the perspective of the general American viewers. Life is not all peaches and cream, it is very hard at times. Characters like Kakarrot and Luffy are irritating because they run through life as if it was one big giant Disney Land. If one was sheltered, yeah it may seem that way but many viewers deal with many things that is real to them but may seem silly to others. They want something that they can relate to, if the world was like many fans of One Piece think it is then we would not have such incidents as Columbine or Virginia Tec.

Concerning music, I submit this, something contemporary and lively that fits the nature of the program.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:55 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:I am speaking from the perspective of the general American viewers. Life is not all peaches and cream, it is very hard at times. Characters like Kakarrot and Luffy are irritating because they run through life as if it was one big giant Disney Land. If one was sheltered, yeah it may seem that way but many viewers deal with many things that is real to them but may seem silly to others. They want something that they can relate to, if the world was like many fans of One Piece think it is then we would not have such incidents as Columbine or Virginia Tec.

There is just so much wrong with this... can somebody else do this for me?

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Concerning music, I submit this, something contemporary and lively that fits the nature of the program.

Sorry; no.

FuniYamcha · Post by **FuniYamcha** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:58 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
B wrote: Haha, are you kidding? Yes, Naruto has the States. The general populus of American anime fans don't care about One Piece. That'd be the online community, i.e. all of us.
Can you rephrase that please? I am not getting what you saying.

"The States" is a term used to refer to the United States. I generally hear my Canadian relatives saying it; don't actually hear it much here.