Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Post by Taku128 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:39 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote: Yeah but it does not have all the things that somewhat reflect real life, other than those that was sheltered all their lives can relate to what people call “angst” or “emo”.
I wasn't under the impression that Dragon Ball was ever supposed to reflect real life. :?
that Hanna Barbera stuff needs to go
Hanna-Barbera? Seriously?

I am speaking from the perspective of the general American viewers. Life is not all peaches and cream, it is very hard at times. Characters like Kakarrot and Luffy are irritating because they run through life as if it was one big giant Disney Land. If one was sheltered, yeah it may seem that way but many viewers deal with many things that is real to them but may seem silly to others. They want something that they can relate to, if the world was like many fans of One Piece think it is then we would not have such incidents as Columbine or Virginia Tec.
Goku isn't happy 100% of the time. When something bad happens he reacts sad or angry or whatever emotion is appropriate for the time. When there's no reason to be angry or sad or serious, Goku is happy. Why wouldn't he be?

Look how happy Goku is that Kuririn died! :D
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:40 pm

Taku128 wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote: I wasn't under the impression that Dragon Ball was ever supposed to reflect real life. :? Hanna-Barbera? Seriously?

I am speaking from the perspective of the general American viewers. Life is not all peaches and cream, it is very hard at times. Characters like Kakarrot and Luffy are irritating because they run through life as if it was one big giant Disney Land. If one was sheltered, yeah it may seem that way but many viewers deal with many things that is real to them but may seem silly to others. They want something that they can relate to, if the world was like many fans of One Piece think it is then we would not have such incidents as Columbine or Virginia Tec.
Goku isn't happy 100% of the time. When something bad happens he reacts sad or angry or whatever emotion is appropriate for the time. When there's no reason to be angry or sad or serious, Goku is happy. Why wouldn't he be?

Look how happy Goku is that Kuririn died! :D
Uhh, that was when he was in the midst of his transformation but I get what you are saying. Nevertheless, look at all the other times they were in the midst of battle and he was in happy idiot mode. I am not even going to address how Kakarrot was getting off in his pants when fighting the Dragons in GT. I am just saying that those happy go-lucky people are annoying after a while especially when you do not see life as this big giant amusement park the majority of the time. If someone is going to watch/read hours worth of material some people want to see someone that they can relate to that is why I prefer DBE “Goku”. My life is not always “emo” or “angst” filled to use some terms that is popular on here. I have good moments most of the time but the country in general is in a sad state so naturally people will want something they can relate.
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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:42 pm

No. I want something that will help me ESCAPE the sadness. Not something that'll remind me of my problems.
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Post by Kaboom » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:34 pm

Movie-Goku was never "emo," not even by the overused, not-entirely-accurate sense.

Was he a little socially awkward from being raised by his weirdo Grandpa out in the country? Yes.

Was he a little frustrated from having to hold himself back? Yes.

Was he saddened by the murder of said Grandpa, the only family he'd ever had? Yes.


He was these things, and understandably so given the course of the film's events. But I don't see "emo" by any definition in there.
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Post by Innagadadavida » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:05 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Movie-Goku was never "emo," not even by the overused, not-entirely-accurate sense.

Was he a little socially awkward from being raised by his weirdo Grandpa out in the country? Yes.

Was he a little frustrated from having to hold himself back? Yes.

Was he saddened by the murder of said Grandpa, the only family he'd ever had? Yes.


He was these things, and understandably so given the course of the film's events. But I don't see "emo" by any definition in there.
YES! THANK YOU.

I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi... I'm hoping that lovey dovey stuff is gone in the sequel. But for the most part. I really liked Chatku.

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Post by Tenshinhan-san » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:22 pm

I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
No offense, but how is "I don't have any friends" and "Teach me to be normal" not giving a shit about anything but fighting, Gohan and ChiChi..?

Off course everyone has their own opinion about the movie, but some opinions are IMO stupid. Claiming Chatku was just like Goku is like calling a blue sky orange.

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Post by JAPPO » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:28 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote:
I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
No offense, but how is "I don't have any friends" and "Teach me to be normal" not giving a shit about anything but fighting, Gohan and ChiChi..?

Off course everyone has their own opinion about the movie, but some opinions are IMO stupid. Claiming Chatku was just like Goku is like calling a blue sky orange.
That line was tacked on by some studio exec, notice how it's forgotten immediately after.
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Post by The Tori-bot » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:29 pm

JAPPO wrote:
Tenshinhan-san wrote:
I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
No offense, but how is "I don't have any friends" and "Teach me to be normal" not giving a shit about anything but fighting, Gohan and ChiChi..?

Off course everyone has their own opinion about the movie, but some opinions are IMO stupid. Claiming Chatku was just like Goku is like calling a blue sky orange.
That line was tacked on by some studio exec, notice how it's forgotten immediately after.
Source...?

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Post by Dr. Casey » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:31 pm

It kind of blends in with the rest of the script, being that plot points are dropped and forgotten very frequently in Dragon Ball Evolution. It's as bad as The Way Episode 6.

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Post by Innagadadavida » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:32 pm

Tenshinhan-san wrote:
I was really expecting the worst with Goku's character in the movie. I was pleasantly surprised at how not-different he was. Goku didn't give a shit about anything except for fighting, his grandpa, and... *gulp* Chi-Chi...
No offense, but how is "I don't have any friends" and "Teach me to be normal" not giving a shit about anything but fighting, Gohan and ChiChi..?

Off course everyone has their own opinion about the movie, but some opinions are IMO stupid. Claiming Chatku was just like Goku is like calling a blue sky orange.
First of all, nobody claimed that Chatku is just like Goku. Second of all... I completely forgot about "Teach me how to be normal." I agree that that line was super lame... But he doesn't go on and on about that through out the movie. He quickly forgets about school and friends as the looming threat of Piccolo and Oozaru become more evident.

I believe that if the real Goku's circumstances were different (if Gohan had been alive long enough to send him to High-school), then Goku might react very similarly in some situations. He wouldn't be in love with Chi-Chi, but he would probably not fight people like grandpa would say and he would be frustrated about it.

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Post by omegacwa » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:35 pm

I hate your posts dude(Tenshinhan-san). They are all overly negative and almost as if you are attacking the other posters.

You also, and some other people on here, appear to have very narrow vision, as if that one segment of the movie when Goku complains about not having friends and wanting to be normal, by the way it's less then three minutes of the whole film, IS THE WHOLE MOVIE.

Yeah, it was out of character for Goku. But it really is only a short segment of the movie that can be quickly, and easily mind you, be ignored. Other than that moment, and a few other brief scenes Goku comes off in the movie as being very confident, eager, and almost asshole like.

The movie as a whole is flawed, but to crucify it for one scene is lunacy., yet I constantly see people bringing up that scene like it's the whole movie.

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Post by Olivier Hague » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:57 pm

omegacwa wrote:I hate your posts dude(Tenshinhan-san). They are all overly negative and almost as if you are attacking the other posters.
You also, and some other people on here, appear to have very narrow vision
My, it's almost as if you were attacking other posters. :þ

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Post by Mr. Announcer » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:28 pm

omegacwa wrote:I hate your posts dude(Tenshinhan-san). They are all overly negative and almost as if you are attacking the other posters.

You also, and some other people on here, appear to have very narrow vision, as if that one segment of the movie when Goku complains about not having friends and wanting to be normal, by the way it's less then three minutes of the whole film, IS THE WHOLE MOVIE.

Yeah, it was out of character for Goku. But it really is only a short segment of the movie that can be quickly, and easily mind you, be ignored. Other than that moment, and a few other brief scenes Goku comes off in the movie as being very confident, eager, and almost asshole like.

The movie as a whole is flawed, but to crucify it for one scene is lunacy., yet I constantly see people bringing up that scene like it's the whole movie.
Yeah, except these were some of Chatku's very first lines in the movie and the most telling of anything he actually felt (for the rest of the movie he's a piece of cardboard). Anyone ever tell you how important first impressions are? The introduction of a character sets the basis for how the viewer defines them and I don't think it was any accident that they were trying to portray Chatku as the awkward, troubled teen in the first part of the movie. That's how they WANT us to see him.

Also in response to Saiyan-Professor, what is wrong about a happy-go-lucky attitude in a cartoon? The reason people are drawn to characters like Gokuh and Luffy in the first place is because despite the hardships and corruption in their worlds they don't it get them down and keep a positive attitude. It may not be super realistic but it's easy enough to understand why it's an admirable quality. Life isn't all doom and gloom either, man. I can relate a hundred times more to the just chilling with friends and having a good time that you see in Dragonball or One Piece than I can to any of Chatku's ridiculous, cliche high school drama. I mean, not everyone in this country is some miserable loser.
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Post by JulieYBM » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:50 pm

It makes one wonder, if Chatku wanted to be normal...wouldn't he have asked to go a a school of martial artists? Heck, he could then train and makes friends (who he could help become as strong as him).


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Post by Tenshinhan-san » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:01 pm

omegacwa wrote:I hate your posts dude(Tenshinhan-san). They are all overly negative and almost as if you are attacking the other posters.

You also, and some other people on here, appear to have very narrow vision, as if that one segment of the movie when Goku complains about not having friends and wanting to be normal, by the way it's less then three minutes of the whole film, IS THE WHOLE MOVIE.

Yeah, it was out of character for Goku. But it really is only a short segment of the movie that can be quickly, and easily mind you, be ignored. Other than that moment, and a few other brief scenes Goku comes off in the movie as being very confident, eager, and almost asshole like.

The movie as a whole is flawed, but to crucify it for one scene is lunacy., yet I constantly see people bringing up that scene like it's the whole movie.
I could turn it around and say you are attacking my every post, but oh well... It's not my goal to piss people off, but if I do so with what I post then so be it. To you, those few lines can be quickly forgotten, to me it's the first impression of movie-goku that annihilates Goku's character beyond repair.

Besides, even after the highschool-crap Chatku just isn't Goku for me. Just to throw in some clear examples; Goku being in love with ChiChi, Goku trying to cheat when learning the kamehameha.... GOKU.... CHEATING!!!!!??? Are you realizing this? Goku being shot with a gun and dying hadn't he been revived, lol. That part isn't really Chatku's fault, but still doesn't add to making him more like Goku. Come on, that's just terrible. Goku isn't the most difficult character to portray, but you do need some solid acting skills. Chatwin's monotone style of acting just wasn't convincing.

Eating a chickenleg as a "nod" didn't make him Goku to me. Give me a fucking break, eating a chicken leg makes someone Goku? Then I am Son Goku in person come chicken day, lol. The only thing in the whole movie where Chatku even remotely resembled Goku was when he "fought" the bullies by having them beat up themselves. And even then Goku would have probably actually hit them, even if holding back his power.

You might see people like me as narrow minded or having a narrow vision, but when it comes to DragonBall I'd call myself a purist who values faithfulness. I personally didn't get ANY faithfulness from DBE compared to the source material, so YES I AM, understandably, PISSED OFF! And off course that's why my posts are negative when it comes to DBE. It just doesn't deserve any better. I see people like you who think DBE is a good movie, let alone a good DB movie, as people with extremely low standards. Same with Saiyan Professor who is satisfied as long as in the sequel there is a dude called Vegeta who at some point turns SSJ, lol. Could expectations/standards be any lower? LMFAO! Not much of a professor are ya?

After having seen DBE, I can honestly say it is pretty much evidentally a fact that DBE is a fucking rushjob created for the sole purpose of making money off a popular franchise. Everybody knows it's a rushed piece of crap and an insult to the source material, so that's why I'm struck with awe at how some fans can still defend this piece of crap! Liking DBE doesn't make you an 'untrue fan', but on the other hand I can not understand someone who calls himself a DB fan accept this piece of dirt they threw in our face and even defend it!
Last edited by Tenshinhan-san on Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by The Tori-bot » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:08 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:No. I want something that will help me ESCAPE the sadness. Not something that'll remind me of my problems.
THIS. x1000.
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:34 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:
Yeah, except these were some of Chatku's very first lines in the movie and the most telling of anything he actually felt (for the rest of the movie he's a piece of cardboard). Anyone ever tell you how important first impressions are? The introduction of a character sets the basis for how the viewer defines them and I don't think it was any accident that they were trying to portray Chatku as the awkward, troubled teen in the first part of the movie. That's how they WANT us to see him.
This “Goku” is not brain damaged and what you expect from a teenage kid that feels different but does not exactly know who or what he is and has a grandfather figure that prevents him from being himself because of how unique he is in comparison to other teenagers. Because he has to withdraw and is different his peers appears to make fun of him and he cannot get the attention of the girl he likes. That is a lot to deal with so of course he wants to be “normal”. Yet as was mentioned earlier when he found out who he really was and received the attention he wanted from Chi-Chi he stopped thinking that way and embraced his destiny. To me that shows progression of his character. Apparently, you walked into the theatre looking for faults and you let a line that many feel “bastardized Goku” prevent you from seeing the growth of the character.
Also in response to Saiyan-Professor, what is wrong about a happy-go-lucky attitude in a cartoon? The reason people are drawn to characters like Gokuh and Luffy in the first place is because despite the hardships and corruption in their worlds they don't it get them down and keep a positive attitude. It may not be super realistic but it's easy enough to understand why it's an admirable quality. Life isn't all doom and gloom either, man. I can relate a hundred times more to the just chilling with friends and having a good time that you see in Dragonball or One Piece than I can to any of Chatku's ridiculous, cliche high school drama. I mean, not everyone in this country is some miserable loser.
Yeah, yeah and then there is the thought that you are not the only one that is going through certain things. That you are not the one that is different or cursed by the gods or however one looks at it. Everyone throws the word “emo” around but there is a reason why those kids hang together.

Personally, when I am upset, I do not want some annoying idiotic clown up in my face grinning ear to ear. I want to know that I am not the only one that is going through whatever it is I am going through and that others have been through it and made it out. Telling me it is going to be okay when that person’s life is perfect is easy when they never had to go through some things.
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Post by The Tori-bot » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:40 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Personally, when I am upset, I do not want some annoying idiotic clown up in my face grinning ear to ear.
Don't watch shows where some annoying idiotic clown is up in your face grinning ear to ear when you're upset, then. Problem solved.
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I want to know that I am not the only one that is going through whatever it is I am going through and that others have been through it and made it out.
A cartoon intended to entertain 10-year-old boys isn't the best place to know it.
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Telling me it is going to be okay when that person’s life is perfect is easy when they never had to go through some things.
Has your best friend ever been blown to pieces right in front of you?
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:45 pm

The Tori-bot wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Personally, when I am upset, I do not want some annoying idiotic clown up in my face grinning ear to ear.
Don't watch shows where some annoying idiotic clown is up in your face grinning ear to ear when you're upset, then. Problem solved.
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I want to know that I am not the only one that is going through whatever it is I am going through and that others have been through it and made it out.
A cartoon intended to entertain 10-year-old boys isn't the best place to know it.
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Telling me it is going to be okay when that person’s life is perfect is easy when they never had to go through some things.
Has your best friend ever been blown to pieces right in front of you?
I was speaking in general about life at that point not the show. I was attempting to demonstrate that not everyone sees life the way she sees it and vice versa. People are all different; in light of the nature and spirit of the shows and movies, here in America the majority seems to like the “emo/angst” stuff.
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Post by Dr. Casey » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:47 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Personally, when I am upset, I do not want some annoying idiotic clown up in my face grinning ear to ear.
Normally, that sort of feeling is usually reserved for real people being incessantly cheerful when you're not in the mood (Ie, being around someone alert and chipper right after you're woken up if you're not a morning person). Usually doesn't extend to TV characters. Not much you can do about it if that's not the case for you, so this is probably just an instance of different strokes, agree to disagree, etc. etc.

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