Censorship in Kai: How Do You Feel About It?

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:31 pm

Last night godofchaos mentioned that the hole in Goku's chest looked more like a burn. I thought it was funny, and so I made this little comic:

(Reads from left to right like a normal American comic would)

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:53 pm

I don't really care about censorship.

ssjcj · Post by **ssjcj** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:39 pm

Watching the first episode again, I noticed the clip with Piccolo Daimao. They did not sensor out the hole in his body (though its only on for a short time). However, they censored Goku's hole against Ma-Junior but still left in some blood.

My opinion on Kai censoring is that it isn't terrible as long as I have the original on DVD. Is it better than the original? Probably not. I enjoy it for what it is and I do believe it will be better than Z in parts. Hopefully they will cut Garlic Jr and the Frieza fight won't be so dull.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:56 pm

Censorship is wrong. End of story.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon May 04, 2009 6:05 pm

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:16 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
I totally get where you're coming from, but as I see it, Kai is far from being the primary way I enjoy Dragonball-related things. The first thing that comes to mind when I want some Dragonball blaring through my TV is Super DBZ. If Kai somehow manages to make Super DBZ no longer exist due to a time paradox, then I might get mad.
It's not my primary way either, but that's not the point, really. If there is an otherwise awesome new Dragonball product that is a fun diversion for me, then I wouldn't be happy if they superimposed pink ponies all over the thing.

I get your point. As I said, I see where you're coming from. I was just offering up my viewpoint. Based on yours, though, I don't like that I can't have the Japanese voices in my American copy of Super DBZ. However, it doesn't bother me so much that I refuse to play it and it doesn't alter the experience too much for me. Same goes for Kai. No penis. No giant holes in torsos. Not necessarily "no problem" but it doesn't affect my overall viewing experience enough for me to take real issue with it.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. Feel free to take issue with it. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there while we have a thread exclusively for that purpose and I'm still interested in typing something up.

Yes, the originals exist. This isn't a discussion of censorship as it pertains to making the originals disappear. It's a discussion of censorship and how it affects Kai, and I think it's fairly legitimate to say "Censorship in Kai is making Kai less enjoyable to me", even if the original is still around.

I understand completely and you're free to do so. But, the first thought that comes to my mind when seeing, "Well, the original isn't censored," is, "Well, if I take issue with it I'll go back to the original and it'll solve my particular problem." Maybe it won't help you, but I'm not telling you, "Go watch the original," to fix your problems. The reason I even came to that conclusion for myself is that I generally take issue with the very slow pacing of Dragonball Z. So, to fix this problem, I go to the manga. Now that we have Dragonball Kai, I don't have to deal with pacing issues that I really do have a problem with.

Raditz and Goku haven't been getting holes in each other in the games for years. Also, I've never seen a 3D rendering of Gohan's wang... especially on the PS2. If a game branded "Kai" suddenly had no nudity and no bloody holes just remember that it isn't so sudden of a thing. It happened long before Kai.
Now that I think about it, I actually wouldn't know. The last console game I played was the first "Budokai" game, which was beautifully uncensored. Since then I've mostly been thriving on portable titles. I suppose it doesn't affect me as much as I was thinking.

From what I remember, besides Budokai 1, they really didn't go to the effort of putting wounds on them after the Makankosappo. For example, in this clip, from 1:50 onwards there's no sign of injury whatsoever. Whether this is laziness or censorship is a question, but it doesn't bother me. they at least went to the effort of showing some sort of marking (burn, bruise, whatever) to imply mortal internal injuries due to a Chi attack in Kai. I hope they have giant holes in them on the Blu-Ray, but I'm not too worried about it.

Again, this is just how I perceive it. It's not me telling you to perceive it my way. The only reason I reply to you so much compared to other people on the topic of censorship is because your posts catch my attention before others do and you leave interesting replies.

Nothing, really. But I'm not gonna miss it.
It bothers me for a lot of reasons, though. Whenever I see it and know it's there, I know the thought process behind it. It stinks of Saban, too. By pushing them out after-the-fact, they're saying these things are "wrong". Etc etc, I could go on. But essentially, I think you can see what it boils down to.

Yeah. The principle of the matter. I'm just not as principled on the topic of censorship in children's shows that I watch as other people are. I found it amazing that in the Saban version they even left the halos in to imply death to an older audience in the first place. This coming from a guy who grew up worshipping a TV show where four green brothers used slapstick to fight off two mutant illigitimate retarded step-children of an implied old married gay couple who bicker about petty stuff while attempting their next plot to become world dictators.

"Put it in... gently..." -- The Shredder (in the episode "Cowabunga Shredhead")

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:34 pm

Kendamu wrote: I'm not saying that you're wrong. Feel free to take issue with it. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there while we have a thread exclusively for that purpose and I'm still interested in typing something up.

Yeah, of course. I can understand the opinion and respect it and all that. I'm just bouncing my ideas off your ideas, hence creating "discussion".

I understand completely and you're free to do so. But, the first thought that comes to my mind when seeing, "Well, the original isn't censored," is, "Well, if I take issue with it I'll go back to the original and it'll solve my particular problem." Maybe it won't help you, but I'm not telling you, "Go watch the original," to fix your problems. The reason I even came to that conclusion for myself is that I generally take issue with the very slow pacing of Dragonball Z. So, to fix this problem, I go to the manga. Now that we have Dragonball Kai, I don't have to deal with pacing issues that I really do have a problem with.

I can't really ignore the faults of one product because they don't exist in another. In fact, I actually don't understand how other people do. Not saying it's invalid, I just don't get it.

From what I remember, besides Budokai 1, they really didn't go to the effort of putting wounds on them after the Makankosappo.

Then I stopped at just the right time. =p

Again, this is just how I perceive it. It's not me telling you to perceive it my way. The only reason I reply to you so much compared to other people on the topic of censorship is because your posts catch my attention before others do and you leave interesting replies.

I'll take that as a compliment, definitely. Same to you, though. You're very down-to-earth, and that makes a conversation viable.

Yeah. The principle of the matter.

I actually don't usually think of myself as all that principled. It just bugs me, though, when I see it. It sticks out about as bad as if they put a huge "NUDITY IS BAD" block over the screen during those scenes. It's not even principle so much as I know what was there and why it's being covered up, and it almost feels as though Dragon Ball is being used to say that nudity is a terrible dirty thing regardless of context.

...I guess that's a bit principled. I dunno. It just irritates me when I see it.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:06 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:I can't really ignore the faults of one product because they don't exist in another. In fact, I actually don't understand how other people do. Not saying it's invalid, I just don't get it.

If I had to try to explain it, I don't think it's that people like me and Kendamu don't acknowledge the faults of Kai. It's just that we see the faults, and don't particularly care one way or the other. The most I care is to say, "Hey, they changed this. That's interesting."

I guess it's because I'm watching Kai out of curiosity rather than to enjoy it as a show. If I were trying to enjoy it I might feel differently. The only thing I think I really like about it as a show is the pacing.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:13 pm

obiwan23s · Post by **obiwan23s** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:17 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote: Censoring alcohol/drugs/tobacco? THANK YOU TOEI.

I remember my first beer. And my first joint. And my first cigarette. WHERE WERE YOU THEN, TOEI? I blame all my addictions on you!

I don't really care about the censorship. Kai was a cool idea at first but now that it's cutting scenes that were in the manga, I'd rather just watch my Dragon Boxes and fast forward thru the filler. The censorship sucks with regard to blood and injuries, etc. I really hope we still get to see Freeza put through the ringer by Trunks instead of just vaporized.

Ramoro-san · Post by **Ramoro-san** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:26 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
sangofe wrote:I don't mind censoring tobacco products because they do nobody good at all
Then again, neither do punches or kicks.

Ooohhhh SNAP.

I hate censorship. It compromises art. I already went off on it in the discussion about Episode 3.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:25 am

I don't think it's the censorship that is actually bothering people. I think it's that originally stuff was there and now it's not and it just dosen't make sence. In the following show, "One Piece" they have a slew of blood and smoking like it's nothing.

I think it would be a different situation if this was a totally new animated series but when they are re-touching up the old animation and taking stuff out, then yea, it's gonna bother people. I'am sure the people that are upset about this aren't necessarily for smoking or blood thirsty its just that, why take it out if it was originally there, then have a show following it that contradicts all the censor ship in DragonBall Kai.

Is it cause that's how the manga was? I don't belive that. I know some people here might, but I don't. What they are doing is censoring. They show penis's in the manga but in Kai it's cut out, that's why I don't think the blood\manga excuse works for me.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

I don't think they're allowed to show penises on Japanese television anymore.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:35 am

I think the violence censorship is stupid. DBZ was never really that bloody, so now that they are censoring what little blood there is, the show is now completely tame. I just don't see the point. I don't care about them censoring Gohan and Goku penis, cause honestly who cares about that?

I am not extremely upset about the censoring, I just think it's pointless.

I actually like the new music though.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:37 am

I don't think they're allowed to show penises on Japanese television anymore.

Really? Wow, I didn't know that. Hmm, Japan has changed... Oh well.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:50 am

Well, standards are obviously going to be different after 20 years. That's why I think the people saying that these changes are unnecessary are being a little silly. I don't think Toei would just censor things for fun.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:59 am

I don't think Toei would just censor things for fun.

Yea, I don't think they would. But I would! I used to censor things for fun... I used to get pictures off the internet and cover up the blood on them. I don't know why I just thought it was so much fun. Iam dead serious...

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:20 pm

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
I don't think Toei would just censor things for fun.
Yea, I don't think they would. But I would! I used to censor things for fun... I used to get pictures off the internet and cover up the blood on them. I don't know why I just thought it was so much fun. Iam dead serious...

Hahaha, I used to remove blood too, but only to see if I could, and because I used to think blood ruined the picture...

Danjoan · Post by **Danjoan** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:02 pm

I do believe the Kai censorship is only for the TV broadcast. Having watched shows such as Code Geass R2, even it was edited for TV because of the timeslot. Kai airs on a Sunday morning over there, which may or may not contribute a bit to the censorship (actually now that I think about it that probably has no affect whatsoever, but I digress). I never watched much of Gegege no Kitaro 2007 despite being somewhat of a fan, but I did watch Digimon Savers, and while it wasn't a reair of a show, it was toned down even though it was meant to be for an "older" demographic than previous Digimon series. For those who don't know, it was in the same block.

Watching Kai on the weekends is a fun experience, because we're getting to see something "new" yet... not so new. No one in this day and age would want to wait six years for a full broadcast now that the manga isn't running, and the edits? Kids don't really know much about the original unless they were influenced somewhere along the line by a parent or sibling. It's fun to point out the things they might've removed or edited, just as something to look forward to? I mean afterall, most of us have seen the entirety of 291 episodes, so it's not like we're... missing something if such and such isn't here or whatnot. Just pop in a good ol' DVD and see it.... I've never been an avid supporter of editing myself, but having grown up on the edited dub, I think it's kind of interesting to see the uncut episodes now and then or find comparisons anyways, so things like what Kanzentai does are rather interesting even for Kai.

I don't know, it seems like the editing should be the least of anyone's worries. Toei is rereleasing this as a 20th anniversary sort of thing; to spark interest again and at best, keep their one hour 9 block or w/e at a good rating for the next two years.

Toei's not perfect either. The new animation in the OP & ED proves that, but I don't see near as many qualms about it. Toei tends to edit their crappy animation in OPs & EDs alike soon after the original is released. I wish I were lying. But Lovely Complex, Powerpuff Girls Z, and Digimon Savers were all alike in that field. If they never fix the horrible animation (Gohan falling out of the helicopter, anyone?) then I will then and only then have serious doubts about this production.

I'll say it again, I'm not a fan of the edits. They do seem rather time consuming to do considering I'm sure the DVDs will hold true to the uncut (let's just assume positive), but hey, Toei is Toei.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:25 pm

Ok, that Majin Vegeta image is ridiculous.

Raditz' Mouth was full of blood, and when Son disappeared there was a big blood stain on the ground. They aren't Removing Blood, stop that.
The ONLY thing that got censored was BIG GAPING HOLE. Blood only got removed because, Logically, there wouldn't be any if it's a burn now.

I'm sorry Japanese TV standards have changed, and I'm sorry DBK has a Sunday Morning timeslot, but that's just how this works. Saban was never wrong editing the Violence (it was HOW they edited it, and the Other edits that were terrible...) but you NEED to do this. If TV standards say you have to do one thing to get something on-air, then you have to or it doesn't air. If they wanted to Re-air DBZ in HD, they had to Edit it.
Saban was never wrong to Edit it. (yes, you Read that right) the problem was that Pioneer (Now Geneon) only released that Edited TV version on DVD.
Also, STOP saying Toei is now "As Bad as" or "Worse than" Saban. I mean, I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part where Son Fell into HFIL, Also, can't wait to see Nappa destroy that Cargo Robot. On, NOT TO MENTION Tenshinhan's Arm growing back. Oh, I'm sorry, Tien. Because if Toei is as bad as Saban, he has to become Tien.
And about the violence, Sure they handled this one Edit funny, It should look worse than a Burn, but at least it looks clean. The edit wasn't sloppily done. Meanwhile, most of Saban's Edits were REALLY sloppily done, not to mention that they removed EVERY DROP Of blood, Eve-ry-sin-gle-drop. Radtiz' Mouth full of blood already means Toei is NOWHERE NEAR Saban. STOP SAYING THAT!!

Kanzenshuu

Censorship in Kai: How Do You Feel About It?

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