Do you take GT as canon?

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:07 pm

I take GT the way I take everything else- if it fits (in this case, with anime continuity) then yes it is canon. Contradictions are to be discarded. It is not to be brought up if the discussion is specifically about the manga. In multi-format multi-creator franchises, I prefer to go by a Star Wars sort of model.

I also don't care about Toriyama's intentions aside from the general principle of story consistency. For example- Toriyama never gave a level for Piccolo's second makkankosappo, but the anime did. It doesn't contradict anything, so I don't mind it. Toriyama gave Vegeta a power of 20k when squaring off against Rikum, all other sources give 30k. Since the Ginyu actually looked shocked/concerned, I go by the 30k and assume Toriyama made a typo. Piccolo having to go to hell forever in order to help Goku escape Freeza and Cell is not only inconsistent with the manga's description of the afterlife, but with Toei's own post-Cell saga filler- that's an example of something I discard.

Since Toriyama in general seemed to be on good terms with the anime staff, contributed notes and character designs frequently, and can't really be found anywhere going all Alan Moore about any of the other adaptations, I think it's fair to say that he didn't feel his integrity or that of his story has been harmed. I think he even went on record saying he liked many GT concepts and likely would have taken the story in a similar direction if he had continued writing it. Not to mention, it's a comic. I started heavily reading X-Men comics with "X-Men" (not Uncanny), but it isn't like I disregarded all stories not written by Chris Claremont (or if one wants to delve, Stan Lee or Roy Thomas).

If Toriyama were to write a new post Z series that went in a different direction than GT, we'd just have a Rurouni Kenshin situation (more or less). If they later animated it, *then* I would just refer to GT as an alternate universe thing. Kinda like how Radical Dreamers was the sequal to Chrono Trigger until Chrono Cross came around and rendered it AU at best.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:35 pm

Rocketman wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Oh gosh. Not you again.... You know where to look. Ask other GT fans and they will tell you what the greatest moments are in DBGT.
Alright then.

Hey GT fans! Besides the ending of episode 64, what are GT's "greatest moments in the history of DB franchise"?

The closing credits! DOOO HOO HOO HOO

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:58 pm

Rocketman wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Oh gosh. Not you again.... You know where to look. Ask other GT fans and they will tell you what the greatest moments are in DBGT.
Alright then.

Hey GT fans! Besides the ending of episode 64, what are GT's "greatest moments in the history of DB franchise"?

I can sum it with, Vegeta finally catching up with Kakarrot and leaving Son Gohan’s godly power from Z in the dust.

Then Toei screwed him again by making him lose the tail.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:01 pm

Fine, for your sake, I will list GT's best moments in DB franchise.

1. Goku transformed to SSJ3 in front of Baby's servants

2. 2nd time Goku transformed to SSJ3

3. Goku becoming Golden Oozaru

4. First Transformation of SSJ4

5. 2 #17s merged to become Super 17

6. 18 and Goku teamworked to beat Super 17

7. Goku vs Qi Xing Long

8. Vegeta's memories

9. Goku vs Si Xing Long

10. Revival of SSJ4 Goku vs Yi Xing Long

11. Vegeta Becomes SSJ4

12. SSJ4 Gogeta

13. Yi Xing Long kills Si Xing Long once again (sad moment. Si Xing Long could have been Goku's fighting partner in place of Vegeta after the death of Yi Xing Long.

14. Super Genki Dama

15. Goku Jr vs Vegeta Jr

16 AND FINALLY GT's ending

IMO Goku leaving Earth's fate entriely on Vegeta's shoulder. This is the sign that Goku is Vegeta's best friend. Touch moment, really. It's like Vegeta's feeling a bit sad to see his best friend take off forever, never to see him again. Goku will probably see him again in afterlife.

Rocketman, you happy now?

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:06 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Oh gosh. Not you again.... You know where to look. Ask other GT fans and they will tell you what the greatest moments are in DBGT.
Alright then.

Hey GT fans! Besides the ending of episode 64, what are GT's "greatest moments in the history of DB franchise"?
I can sum it with, Vegeta finally catching up with Kakarrot and leaving Son Gohan’s godly power from Z in the dust. :D

Look on the bright side, Professor. Vegeta was leagues beyond Goku until the latter was 24 years of age. Two and a half decades of absolute, astronomical dominance is a long time.

B · Post by B » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:10 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Oh gosh. Not you again.... You know where to look. Ask other GT fans and they will tell you what the greatest moments are in DBGT.
Alright then.

Hey GT fans! Besides the ending of episode 64, what are GT's "greatest moments in the history of DB franchise"?
The closing credits! DOOO HOO HOO HOO

Literally, the four GT endings are awesome.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:12 pm

Indeed.

Well, the first three are, anyway. The first half of Blast On Through With A Sawed-off Machine Gun, or whatever the last ending song's called, was incredibly bland animation-wise for over half the song.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:19 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:...Blast On Through With A Sawed-off Machine Gun, or whatever the last ending song's called...

One word: classic

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:31 pm

I love Sabitsuita Machine Gun, but that was awesome

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 pm

I love Don't You See! I like listening to Blue Velvet too.

Is Goku afraid of Chi Chi or afraid of her wild driving skills?

[/img]

Shineman · Post by **Shineman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:43 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I love Don't You See! I like listening to Blue Velvet too.

Is Goku afraid of Chi Chi or afraid of her wild driving skills?
[/img]

Both?

Shineman · Post by **Shineman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:50 pm

Best Moments in GT? That easy

Goku going Golden Ape
Vegeta is finally up there with Son Goku's level
Ssj4 transformation
Ssj4 Gogeta vs Omega shenron (yes i using the dub names)
Vegeta getting owned by his daugther Bra
Vegeta saying moostache
The universal spirit bomb
The para para brothers (i think that what they are called)
Goku and 18 working together to beat Super 17 (that something you will never expect to see lol)
uub turning into Super Uub
Ssj4 only to pure blooded

Edit:
GT Music (i forgot about that). Seriously, Dan Dan (Japanese still beat the english verison), and many others.
Piccolo killing himself to protect the earth from BSDB, it really show how much Piccolo has change over the years.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:47 am

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:23 am

Travis Touchdown wrote:This is one of those touchy subjects that the wrong person gets pissed about. I took Akira Toriyama's farewell as literal as possible which allows for everyone to have their own canon. Something about him saying there will definitely be trouble in the future, but this is all he can show you and to see what happens next, you have to use your own eyes.

Between that and the "I'll try to live my life with as much energy as Son Goku! You should, too!" line that he put in near the end I always took that whole "seeing into their world with your eyes" as more of a way of saying that you've been reading about their adventures for so long and now they're over; so go have your own adventures and keep the spirit of Dragonball in mind.

SaiyanBlood · Post by **SaiyanBlood** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:11 am

By the way its going here it seems like many people like GT actually.

Hmm. maybe our generation's just different.

GT is great. There are many silly parts but equally interesting and amazing scenes on the line.

How many people here like GT?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:47 am

Kendamu wrote:
Travis Touchdown wrote:This is one of those touchy subjects that the wrong person gets pissed about. I took Akira Toriyama's farewell as literal as possible which allows for everyone to have their own canon. Something about him saying there will definitely be trouble in the future, but this is all he can show you and to see what happens next, you have to use your own eyes.
Between that and the "I'll try to live my life with as much energy as Son Goku! You should, too!" line that he put in near the end I always took that whole "seeing into their world with your eyes" as more of a way of saying that you've been reading about their adventures for so long and now they're over; so go have your own adventures and keep the spirit of Dragonball in mind.

Or Toriyama’s ending was a huge middle finger to all the fans.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:56 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Travis Touchdown wrote:This is one of those touchy subjects that the wrong person gets pissed about. I took Akira Toriyama's farewell as literal as possible which allows for everyone to have their own canon. Something about him saying there will definitely be trouble in the future, but this is all he can show you and to see what happens next, you have to use your own eyes.
Between that and the "I'll try to live my life with as much energy as Son Goku! You should, too!" line that he put in near the end I always took that whole "seeing into their world with your eyes" as more of a way of saying that you've been reading about their adventures for so long and now they're over; so go have your own adventures and keep the spirit of Dragonball in mind.
Or Toriyama’s ending was a huge middle finger to all the fans.

*img snip*

I always considered it more of a middle finger to his editors, actually. A humble and respectful stereotypical Japanese style middle finger, but still a middle finger.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:39 pm

Vegeta is finally up there with Son Goku's level

SSJ2 Vegeta can't budge Super 17.
SSJ Kid Goku knocks Super 17 across half the planet.

Vegeta was equal or superior to Goku for most of Z. In GT, he only reaches that when he goes SSJ4, and then he is immediately knocked down again because his tail goes away.

The universal spirit bomb

Rip-off of the end of Z.

Pfah, I say to all y'all.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:45 pm

Ever prefer to think #17 was just rolling with Gokû's punches?

...or that his tail would come back if he tried transforming??

...or that a Genki Dama powered by all of Gokû's friends across the Dragon World would be a good idea to try and eradicate the minus energy their actions have created over the years???

*Maybe not so much with that last one, but alas...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:06 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Ever prefer to think #17 was just rolling with Gokû's punches?

Why would he suddenly roll for this one punch when he hadn't rolled for anyone else's, even Uub or Vegeta, who should be stronger than Goku?

...or that his tail would come back if he tried transforming??

1. Goku's doesn't vanish.

2. Vegeta gets the shit beat out of him shortly afterwards. If he could go SSJ4, he would have.

...or that a Genki Dama powered by all of Gokû's friends across the Dragon World would be a good idea to try and eradicate the minus energy their actions have created over the years???

*Maybe not so much with that last one, but alas...

No, because the Spirit Bomb is the most overused finishing attack in the whole series.