Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[jjgp1112]

...UGH. You totally missed my point. The dialogue we've seen implies this Pan probably won't even go SSJ2. Pan is 14 here and trained longer and under a more powerful trainer. Gohan is what, 12, when he went SSJ? Goten and Trunks were under 7. All we know about Pan from the manga is that she has great potential. Even GT Pan going SSJ between the series and special isn't out of the question at all, so why not a stronger version of Pan?

Look I get what you are saying but its Pan, I am sorry but the Pan from GT is etched invariably into my mind for life, so to me she is just that weak annoying daughter of Son Gohan and Kakarrot’s granddaughter.

But they still had the strength to knock him back over 146 MILLION kilometers! If you can accept the possibility that either this Broly can be stronger than that, or that this Vegetto can be weaker than our Vegetto, why do you assume that the likely possibility of a stronger Pan can actually be any strong at all?

That is nothing new villains and heroes get thrown far distances all the time, remember the Chibi Kakarrot and Jinzôningen Super #17 fight in GT? Either way, is fine it does not matter whether Broli is stronger or Vegetto is weaker my point is that it is more believable than some of the stuff that has been going on lately especially the Super Saiyan Pan incident. Hell, the video games present Broli as a monster (which it should).

Look, it doesn't matter how strong Broly could be if he came in at a certain point. It's a well-known fact that Broly<Cell, and that Broly in DBM was found after he got fucked up in Movie 8. And Vegetto has a godly amount of strength so he would kill Broly with a freaking weak blast if he cared. You're considering all of these possibilities with Broly even though it's factually impossible given the situation in DBM, yet this new universe Pan has a whole bunch of plausible scenarios as to why she is a Super Saiyan, yet you're denying them because you don't like her. She's Gohan's daughter. She recieved training FROM VEGETTO. What other explanation do you need?

[Victator Supreme]

It's a well-known fact that Broly<Cell,

No its not. Its an opinon that a few fans came to. Neither side has been able to produce anything to make it a fact.

[Kaboom]

It's a well-known fact that Broly<Cell,

No its not. Its an opinon that a few fans came to. Neither side has been able to produce anything to make it a fact.

Movie 10 Broly is debatable, but Movie 8 Broly is definitely a good deal weaker than Perfect Cell.

In movie 8, the compared powers of the heroes don't peg them as their Cell Games selves, despite Gohan being a Super Saiyan. If they were, Gohan would be stronger than everyone, but he's not; Goku is. The other heroes would be far behind Goku and Gohan, but their not. Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo all do no better or worse against Broly than the two Sons do.

Last nail in the coffin comes from movie 10. Teen Gohan makes an annoyed remark when Broly is giving him so much trouble, citing that he (Gohan) "has powered up considerably since then," then being the last time he fought Broly. Gohan never "powered up" between the Cell Games and the beginning of the Buu arc; in fact, he got weaker. So since Gohan evidently got a lot stronger between movies 8 and 10, movie 8 Gohan can't be his Cell Games self. If he's not, then nobody else is.

[Rocketman]

Yeah but how would that Gogeta fare against Bebi-Vegeta/Golden Ôzaru-Bebi, Jinzôningen Super #17, Si Xing Long, or Yi Xing Long?

He'd beat the shit out of them. Janemba was tearing the universe apart and Gogeta smacked him around like a crack whore.


The only being stronger than Gogeta/Vegetto is SSJ4 Gogeta.

[Victator Supreme]

It's a well-known fact that Broly<Cell,

No its not. Its an opinon that a few fans came to. Neither side has been able to produce anything to make it a fact.

Movie 10 Broly is debatable, but Movie 8 Broly is definitely a good deal weaker than Perfect Cell.

In movie 8, the compared powers of the heroes don't peg them as their Cell Games selves, despite Gohan being a Super Saiyan. If they were, Gohan would be stronger than everyone, but he's not; Goku is. The other heroes would be far behind Goku and Gohan, but their not. Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo all do no better or worse against Broly than the two Sons do.

Last nail in the coffin comes from movie 10. Teen Gohan makes an annoyed remark when Broly is giving him so much trouble, citing that he (Gohan) "has powered up considerably since then," then being the last time he fought Broly. Gohan never "powered up" between the Cell Games and the beginning of the Buu arc; in fact, he got weaker. So since Gohan evidently got a lot stronger between movies 8 and 10, movie 8 Gohan can't be his Cell Games self. If he's not, then nobody else is.

Gohan was never stronger than Goku pre Super Saiyan 2 in the fight with Cell. He had the potential to be but thats about it. Unless Broly managed to piss him off, Gohan is a non factor. That final nail requires a whole lot of twisting and streching to make it work. Sorry I'm not buying it. In fact it actually supports the point that Broly was much more powerful than Cell.

[Xyex]

Time to play catch-up again!

I know, but they go on this rant about not liking GT and how they are going to stick with Z and then they go and pull a stunt like this. I would have not had a problem if they considered GT because of Goku Jr. going Super Saiyan. Nevertheless, they make Pan a Super Saiyan when her blood is diluted (according to the Daizenshuu).

What does Pan going SSJ have to do with GT? Considering that Pan DIDN'T go SSJ in GT and GT is the only thing that says she doesn't... it has nothing to do with it. You mention the Daizenshuu. Well, the Daizenshuu isn't DBZ either. It's the Daizenshuu. And, as I said earlier in this thread: It was just Toriyama's staff making up an excuse for him. 'sides, if they're ignoring GT there's no reason not to ignore the guide books as well~

They said that they ignored GT altogether and stuck with Z

And, again, Z never said anything about Pan not being able to transform.

That's GT~

In light of this, Saligir and the gang should have just stated that they were pulling stuff out of their collective asses and to hell with anything official. Instead of the we are above GT blah, blah, blah, we are sticking with Z stuff.

.....

Wow.

Just... wow.

They're not pulling anything 'out of their asses' in this. They are use characters from the DBZ era and after, but not including GT characters. I seriously don't see what the issue is.

It all comes down to fan service, after all Pan is Son Gohan’s daughter and Kakarrot’s granddaughter so naturally she has to achieve the impossible. I am switching my vote to DB:AF, seeing a Super Saiyan 4 Son Gohan is a lot more bearable than what has been going on lately. At least we know Toyble is pulling stuff out of his ass.

...............................................

And yet I get the distinct feeling that if Bra were Trunks daughter instead of sister, and thus 1/4th like Pan, and went SSJ you'd have absolutely no complaints.

Yeah, but how does Human blood and Saiyan blood work together to create something stronger? By the time the Saiyans are introduced, an average human, such as Chi-Chi or Bulma, is about as the equivalent of a house fly as far as overall strength. How does their blood react with Saiyan blood to produce a child who's able to go from being weaker than Freeza at one point then emerge a year later stronger than anybody in the known universe?

1 + 2 ≠ 10

Chi-Chi's almost as strong as Roshi when the Saiya-jins are introduced. So sayeth the SEG.

And if you want me to get into fantasy biology then I shall, since I enjoy doing such. The following section between the *'s can be skipped by those not interested.

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Fantasy Biological Explanation Why Human/Saiya-jin Hybrids Are Stronger Than Pure Blood Saiya-jins

Saiya-jins lack the hormone adrenaline, their bodies simply do not produce it. A similar hormone does exist in their system, a Saiya-jin version of adrenaline which we will call SZH, but it is not the same as that as found in humans. SZH is responsible for the power increases following recovery from injury and also responsible for the initital activation of Super Saiya-jin. The greater the amount of SZH released into the body prior to injury the greater the power increase after recovery, and activation of Super Saiya-jin requires excessive amounts of SZH far beyond what is normally produced. SZH is also a key hormone in regulating a Saiya-jin's power. Exposure to SZH is one of the main causes of Saiya-jin power growth, even outside of recover and transformation. SZH does not, however, produce the same 'fight or flight' response that adrenaline does. While released during combat its effects are for after battle, not before.

However, within Saiya-jin/human hyrbids, no matter the dillution of the Saiya-jin DNA in the combonation, both SZH and adrenaline are present. Within a hybrid adrenaline functions much as it would within a human, being released prior to battle and activating a similar flight or fight response. However, adrenaline is similar enough in composition to SZH that it also has a moderate compatability with the SZH receptors thoroughout a Saiya-jin body. This causes a boost in the effect of SZH on the hybrid as adrenaline can be almost perfectly substitued for it within the body which results in the hybrid always effectively having a higher than average SZH concentration. This can result in greater power growth after injury than is normal, easier access to the Super Saiya-jin transformation, and greater power in general thanks its role as a power regulator. SZH also has an effect on the human end of hybrid biology, much like adrenaline does on the Saiya-jin end. Just as adrenaline can activate the SZH receptors in a Saiya-jin's body SZH can activate the adrenaline receptors. This results in a far stronger flight or fight response than is found within a normal person which results in greater power, awareness, and in increased release of the body's energy.

In rare ocassions, during gestation of the fetus, the adrenal gland and the SZH gland will form so close together that the two will merge by the time of birth forming a single gland. In such cases the singal glad will produce both hormones but also a third hormone that is a combonation of both which we shall call SZH-A. Where as the other two hormone's are only near matches for the opposite receptor, close enough for a partial activation, SZH-A can perfectly activate either receptor. And unlike the other two hormones which, even in a merged gland, are only released at their normal times, SZH-A is released during the release both adrenaline and SZH enabling the active effect of both hormones at almost any given time. This can lead to large temporary boost of power when large amounts of SZH-A, though still below transfromational levels, are released into the body.
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Well, that was just slapped together in about 15 minutes, so there might be some holes or something, but meh. It was just a for fun example anyway~ A less fantasy biology reasoning:

We know that humans are indeed capable of pretty impressive levels of power. I doubt there are many people who would argue that Tien, at his strongest, would be unabale to defeat Recoome. Recoome, one of the most powerful individuals in the entire universe prior to the fall of the Cold Empire. So humans have the potential to be one of the strongest races in the universe and what mostly holds them back is their lack of inate ki abilities. However, Saiya-jins are inately able to use and control their ki. Adding this ability on to a human would overcome the need for the human to learn and master ki, it would just be natural to the hybrid like it is with the Saiya-jin. Humans have a power growth rate very close to that of Saiya-jins, when the zenkai is left ouf of the equation, and thus mixing of those natures would of course result in something even greater. All you'd need is just a small portion of DNA, less than 1% of their total compisition, to over come this barrier and even to pass along Super Saiya-jin.

If she turns Super Saiyan 2 I am officially done with this manga until the Broli versus Vegetto fight. This is getting ridiculous Bojack has to actually put forth some effort against a Super Saiyan Pan of all things.

What's so ridiculous about that? This Pan trained with Vegetto, first and foremost. Secondly, I believe that if Pan, just at the end of Z, was already about twice as strong as base Goten or Trunks had been in the Buu Saga. Consider that this is now 10 years after the period of Z and she could, concievably, be even with or stronger than Cell Games SSJ Gohan. Let's not forget that Pan is both older AND from 'stronger stock' than Gohan at the Cell games.

Besides, Gohan's already said that Bojack is stronger than her.

Look I get what you are saying but its Pan, I am sorry but the Pan from GT is etched invariably into my mind for life, so to me she is just that weak annoying daughter of Son Gohan and Kakarrot’s granddaughter.

Then for this very reason, any instance of Vegeta going Super Saiya-jin or beating anyone stronger than Saiya-jin Saga Goku is impossible. Because Vegeta was just a weak and annoying ass-hat when he first appeared~

That is the situation right now but Saligir and the gang will do something that is totally ridiculous like with the Cell versus Dabra fight.

And what, exactly, was ridiculous about that? Was it the fact that someone who was already stronger than someone else 27 years ago, then trained for 27 years, beat the weaker person?

No its not. Its an opinon that a few fans came to. Neither side has been able to produce anything to make it a fact.

Movie 10 Broly is debatable, but Movie 8 Broly is definitely a good deal weaker than Perfect Cell.

In movie 8, the compared powers of the heroes don't peg them as their Cell Games selves, despite Gohan being a Super Saiyan. If they were, Gohan would be stronger than everyone, but he's not; Goku is. The other heroes would be far behind Goku and Gohan, but their not. Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo all do no better or worse against Broly than the two Sons do.

Last nail in the coffin comes from movie 10. Teen Gohan makes an annoyed remark when Broly is giving him so much trouble, citing that he (Gohan) "has powered up considerably since then," then being the last time he fought Broly. Gohan never "powered up" between the Cell Games and the beginning of the Buu arc; in fact, he got weaker. So since Gohan evidently got a lot stronger between movies 8 and 10, movie 8 Gohan can't be his Cell Games self. If he's not, then nobody else is.

Gohan was never stronger than Goku pre Super Saiyan 2 in the fight with Cell. He had the potential to be but thats about it. Unless Broly managed to piss him off, Gohan is a non factor. That final nail requires a whole lot of twisting and streching to make it work. Sorry I'm not buying it. In fact it actually supports the point that Broly was much more powerful than Cell.

Umm, actually, Gohan was a good deal stronger than Goku just in SSJ. Both Goku and Gohan directly commented on it. Goku even stated that Gohan though Goku was holding back because Gohan knew that he himself was stronger and didn't think he'd surpassed his father.

So, yes, SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku at the Cell Games.

[JulieYBM]

Just want to say I wouldn't place Pan at the end of the series proper to be more mighty than Goten. I don't really think he was taking any sort of fight they might have had deadly seriously.

[Victator Supreme]

Time to play catch-up again!

So, yes, SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku at the Cell Games.

Yet he had far more difficulty with Cell than his father did.

[jjgp1112]

Time to play catch-up again!

So, yes, SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku at the Cell Games.

Yet he had far more difficulty with Cell than his father did.

Because Cell decided to go all-out on Gohan. He had trouble keeping up with Gohan, and then he decided to use his full-power, which he didn't even do with Goku. And then after that, Gohan was reluctant to fight, so he naturally had a hard time.

[Victator Supreme]

Time to play catch-up again! Yet he had far more difficulty with Cell than his father did.

Because Cell decided to go all-out on Gohan. He had trouble keeping up with Gohan, and then he decided to use his full-power, which he didn't even do with Goku. And then after that, Gohan was reluctant to fight, so he naturally had a hard time.

And Gohan would of not been reluctant to fight Broly?

[Xyex]

Just want to say I wouldn't place Pan at the end of the series proper to be more mighty than Goten. I don't really think he was taking any sort of fight they might have had deadly seriously.

And what, exactly, does this have to do with him laying unconcious on the floor? He can sense ki, he knows how strong she is. Throwing the fight for his niece would not result in a KO. Also, Goten's been slacking off for quite a few years. He was already starting to slack in the new special. So there goes a good deal of the power he had in the Buu Saga. Considering that Goten and Trunks had the power they did in the Buu saga it's not that hard to see Pan being stronger than that. Goten was stronger as a kid then Gohan, nothing says the same wouldn't be true with Pan and Goten.

Yet he had far more difficulty with Cell than his father did.

And of course you ignore the fact that Gohan was never even really trying in that fight.

And Gohan would of not been reluctant to fight Broly?

In movie 10? Absolutely not. The only reluctance there is his reluctance and/or inability to use SSJ2 at will. By the Buu era he fought when he had to and knew that some times there was no choice.

[Bussani]

As much as I like Pan and agree that there's no reason for her not to be very strong, going by the manga (she was already racing herself around the world at age 4), I can imagine the fight with Goten simply being him underestimating her, letting her 'go first' (not that it's necessary, but it's the sort of thing these characters do) and being smacked in the face when she suddenly raised her ki and attacked in an instant.

I'm not saying it's a complete fluke, but I wouldn't be surprised if he went down that quickly due to a dumb miscalculation.

By the way, didn't the sign above them say 'tournament canceled'? So it wasn't an official match, if that means anything.

[JulieYBM]

He doesn't look unconcious to me. Who's to say she didn't give him a good kick, he fell flat on his face and Trunks was playing along to make her feel special? She's four for goodness sake, adults do those sorts of things.

And again, the tournament was canceled. They're just messing around on the platform.

[Kaboom]

When/Why was it cancelled? Just because Goku and Uub left? I'm sure they'd be able to work around that...

[Bussani]

When/Why was it cancelled? Just because Goku and Uub left? I'm sure they'd be able to work around that...

If that picture was scrolled out further, you'd be able to see the banner that says it above them, if I remember right. Why? No idea.

[JulieYBM]

When/Why was it cancelled? Just because Goku and Uub left? I'm sure they'd be able to work around that...

Captain Chicken and Knock also left.

Still, a little odd. But whatever...

[The Tori-bot]

When/Why was it cancelled? Just because Goku and Uub left? I'm sure they'd be able to work around that...

Captain Chicken and Knock also left.

Still, a little odd. But whatever...

Maybe they just had another Battle Royale?

[Dayspring]

Would they even need to? It's only 3 fighters missing. And when did Pan fight Goten? How much of the budokai was shown in filler?

[SSJ2bardock]

For all we know this Pan may actually go Super Saiyan 2 or 3 and if that happens I might have to take a break form DB:M until they get to something more realistic (for Dragonball that is).

Why does something tell me that if Broly ends up beating Vegetto you won't be "taking a break" from this fan manga?

[Rocketman]

if Broly ends up beating Vegetto

*foams at the mouth*