Most overrated and underrated fights

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:21 am

In your opinion, which fights don't get enough praise? And which get too much?

My takes:

Underrated:

Goku vs. "Jackie Chun." This is, hands down, one of my favorite fights in the entire franchise. When I first began to read downloaded, fanlated copies of the manga (at the time, not yet being published in the USA), I was expecting Dragonball to be mostly humorous adventure with some mild action, but nothing overwhelming. But the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai final match sure proved me wrong. The humor is great, I love the way the match keeps tilting back and forth in each fighter's favor, and the various techniques each introduce feel natural, without the sheer "pulled out of ye olde rear end" factor that crops up occasionally later on. The choreography is superb, and that finale with the two opponents each struggling to rise...wonderfully tense.

Dr. Wheelo vs. Earth. It almost feels like the "Vegeta vs. Earth" fight trimmed down with all the best bits kept in (well, except Yajirobe's blitzkriegs), with the bonus of Kamesen'nin and Piccolo taking part.

Overrated:

Goku vs. Majin Vegeta. Especially in the manga. This is the only fight I can think of where the anime really improved it a lot. But in the manga? Gone the clever strategizing and pure desperation of fights past; this wasn't much more complicated than the two of them basically standing there and hitting each other. "Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Saiyans."

Gohan vs. Cell. I would have had no problem with Toriyama wanting to make Gohan the new main character. But there had to have been a better way to try it than this. I was never a fan of the fights where the hero becomes massively more powerful than everyone else, even the villain (Goku's rematch against Taopaipai should have been equal, not one-sided; and at least Freeza still made him work for it). Thankfully, the Great Saiyaman came along, which definitely redeemed Gohan in my eyes (I love Gohan except during this Cell Saga bit).

So, those are my thoughts. Yours?

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:17 am

Overrated

Piccolo vs 17

I honestly don't know why people like this fight so much but I always see it brought up in conversations. Yeah Piccolo was getting was getting his shine on and was pulling his weight as one of the good guys at this point but the actual fight wasn't that cool to me. I don't think it's a bad fight I just think it's overrated.

Underrated

Goku vs Cell

I NEVER hear anyone talk about this fight. This fight was incredible in the anime. It's one of the only fights in the anime that comes close to matching the style used in movies 1 and 2. It's not a fight that's dragged out over a long stretch of episodes. It's just a really intense fight between two evenly matched fighters (something that rarely happens in Dragon Ball Z) and even better they don't spend the whole thing hurling ki blasts at each other. It's just a really great battle.

Piccolo vs Imperfect Cell

I don't know why but there is just something really cool about this fight. The anime version of course. Maybe it's because I like Imperfect Cell but this fight rarely gets talked about either.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:34 am

Underrated

Goku vs. Ma Jr. (23rd Budokai) -- It's not that nobody likes it, it's just that it never seems brought up in conversation when bringing up memorable fights. To me, this fight has everything I love about Dragonball and everything I love about Dragonball Z all rolled into one, making it a favorite fight of mine. If this fight were at the beginning of Dragonball Z and not the end of Dragonball, more people would know and appreciate it.

Goku vs. Recoome, Jeese, and Baata -- Again, it's not that nobody likes it. It's just something that's oft overlooked in favor of fights like "Vegeta vs. #19" or "Broli vs. a Potato: The Chess Edition." This was actually the segment of the series that I saw when discovering Dragonball and so it holds a special place in my heart. I really like how it shows that, like with Nappa, Goku generally plays the "defense and counter" game when he severely outmatches his opponents rather than annihilating them like many people would if they had that much power.

Overrated

Broli vs. anyone -- I'm just not a big Broli fan so I don't tend to see the appeal. But it seems that such a big deal is made about him in various releases. Heck, even Saiyajin Raishuu on the DS has Broli as a secret boss. Why not Tullece or someone more relevant to the time period the game takes place? I understand that "HE HAS MAXIMUM POWER" and all of that, but I just think he's a horrible villain compared to guys like Dr. Wheelo.

B · Post by B » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:41 am

Overrated- Gohan VS Cell. Too much deus ex machina for me. Looking back, the concept of higher levels of Super Saiyan weren't executed all that well. At least, not here. Typical shounen angry power-up.

Underrated- Goku VS Krillin at the 22nd Tournament. Being Dragon Ball pre-Z plus gag moves is probably what does this one in with the "mainstream."

(I hate that fucking m-word, but I'm an idiot with a low vocabulary.)

Post by **Herms** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:45 am

I second the Goku vs. Jacky Chun and Goku vs. Ma Junior fights for underrated, and I think I'd add Goku vs. Tenshinhan. All the final fights for the classic Tenkaichi Budoukais are great.

For overrated...I guess Goku vs. Freeza. It's not that I hate this fight by any means, but I don't see it as being the pinnacle of the series as some do. It starts out good (in fact, I actually quite prefer the pre-SSJ portion), but it just goes on and on for so long, even in the manga, during which time Goku somehow goes from "Freeza, I'm gonna kill you in the name of all those you've murdered!!!" and "DO YOU MEAN KURIRIN?!?!?!?" to "Well, you're pretty beat up and humiliated, so I guess I'll let you off the hook". What the hell?

Though I guess I could also nominate the Goku/Freeza fight as being underrated, since while I don't personally consider it a favorite, it does get a lot of crap based purely on it's awful anime adaptation, which it doesn't deserve.

Kendamu wrote:I understand that "HE HAS MAXIMUM POWER" and all of that, but I just think he's a horrible villain compared to guys like Dr. Wheelo.

Hmmm...Dr. Uiro's brain in Broli's body, now that would be something. Not something good, but something.

B wrote:Overrated- Gohan VS Cell. Too much deus ex machina for me. Looking back, the concept of higher levels of Super Saiyan weren't executed all that well. At least, not here. Typical shounen

I don't know how much of a deus ex machine it is. Gohan getting super-powerful when angry was established since way back in the Raditz fight, and was used repeatedly ever since. If anything, the Cell fight suffers not from having an improbable solution come out of nowhere, but rather from re-using the same well established solution for the n-th time.

And not to rag on the Goku/Freeza fight some more, but I don't think the original Super Saiyan level/transformation was done all that well. We get 3 or so volumes of Vegeta going on and on about who is or isn't the legendary Super Saiyan, as if there was ever any real suspense about who it would be. And then Goku finally becomes it, becomes, as Kaio says, "not even Son Goku anymore, but the warrior of rage"...and then goes on to let Freeza go because, well, the fight was getting kinda dull, and Freeza's probably learned his lesson, and it's not like he killed Goku's best friend, killed his rival, killed his parents and race, almost kill his ex-rival (endanging the resurrection of all his other friends in the process), threatened to kill his son, and killed just about everybody else on the planet they happened to be on. Jesus, if anything becoming a Super Saiyan had a pacifying effect on Goku.

derefed · Post by **derefed** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:16 am

Underrated: I second the Goku vs. Cell fight, for the same reasons given above; just some great, fast-paced animation of a battle between two equally-matched fighters. Thankfully they used the good animators for it too! I think this will always be the best DB fight in my mind.

Overrated: Goku vs. Burter and Jeice. Before a few weeks ago, it had been years since I'd seen this fight. Here on the forums, I always hear this one talked up a lot, so my expectations were high going into it. Now having recently watched it, I'm thinking, what's the big deal? Goku doesn't even really do much. Perhaps I missed the point. Yeah, it is cool how he comes in and saves the day and puts his 100x gravity training to the test, but the actual fight just wasn't that remarkable to me. The Goku vs. Cell fight really set the bar high for me.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:39 am

GotenZ1 · Post by **GotenZ1** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:56 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Son Goku vs Piccolo Ma Junior (Best. Fight. In. Whole. Franchise.)

Kendamu wrote: Underrated

Goku vs. Ma Jr. (23rd Budokai) -- It's not that nobody likes it, it's just that it never seems brought up in conversation when bringing up memorable fights. To me, this fight has everything I love about Dragonball and everything I love about Dragonball Z all rolled into one, making it a favorite fight of mine. If this fight were at the beginning of Dragonball Z and not the end of Dragonball, more people would know and appreciate it.

I do not have much more to add to theses opinions. I just feel like I have to let it be known that I COMPLETELY AGREE. This might have been one of the last fights I ever saw in regards to all three of the animated series and it blew me away. THis was after I had read the entire manga. I was at the edge of my seat and cheering. It's that good. Anyone who has not seen this fight should do so NOW.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:05 am

Goku VS Jackie Chun is the best fight in the whole series. I see it up there a bit, so perhaps it's not as underated as we think, but I can't think of a better fight anywhere in the Dragon Ball franchise. If I want to watch a fight specifically for the sake of watching a fight, it's Goku VS Jackie Chun that I pop in.

Overrated? Gohan VS Perfect Cell is...not a good fight at all for me. The events leading up to it are great, but the actual fight is certainly a let-down. Especially after the excellent match that was Goku VS Perfect Cell. I'm not sure if the fight is actually liked, but it's just not interesting to watch.

Patient-mental · Post by **Patient-mental** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:32 am

I always wished the frieza v goku fight was more like the Gohan V Cell fight exactly to make the fight shorter to say the least

Also I always wanted the Gohan Vs Cell fight to be like Goku Vs Cell but much more ridiculous showing us a "you saw the Goku fight... that was okay, but check this one out" style of fight one-up-manship, but Gohan should have been toying with Cell. Cell gets physical torture for his work, eventually pushing Cell to try and blow up the planet etc etc.

Underated - Krillin Vs Jackie Chun; only because the complete gag anime/manga style of the explaination of the fight for the audience has me in stitches whenever i watch it. Its just so unrealistic its really ingenious.

Overrated? - Broly in movies 10 and 11, their terrible and Toei could have used that money to make a new and interesting movie story...

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:05 am

Underrated

Goku vs Fish

This was the battle that showed Goku wasn't an ordinary boy and sometimes even gets overlooked as being a fight. It made me want to turn the pages whilst reading through Dragonball though and it certainly was entertaining.

Gohan vs Recoome

This fight really showed how much stronger Gohan had become, and how much he had changed since the start of the series. He becomes a gutsy little kid who starts to fight for his own beliefs.

Overrated

SSJ 2/3/4 vs anyone..

SSJ was brilliant, it got introduced into the series perfectly, it was the ''ultimate form''. Then basically as the opponents got stronger a new form of SSJ was introduced to go and face it.

Cell = SSJ2
Boo = SSJ3
Baby = SSJ4

Omega = SSJ4 x2

I mean, sure. Some of the fights were awesome, and i've missed the point a little, but I just hated how these new forms took over and made everything else that previously happened seem irrelevant and everybody else look weak. They missed out on making moves and techniques the way they used too and relied on new transformations to take care of everything. Though back on topic, i'm going to say the most overrated fight was ,

Vegeta vs Semi-Perfect Cell

Vegeta was just to smug. I got bored and grew tired of Cell complaining about, ''oh, it wouldn't be like this if I was perfect'', and Vegeta just acting all macho thinking he was the ultimate warrior.

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:30 am

Overrated

Gohan vs Cell

Underrated

Goku vs Piccolo Daimao (old)

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:05 pm

chibi_goten wrote:Overrated

SSJ 2/3/4 vs anyone..

SSJ was brilliant, it got introduced into the series perfectly, it was the ''ultimate form''. Then basically as the opponents got stronger a new form of SSJ was introduced to go and face it.

Cell = SSJ2
Boo = SSJ3
Baby = SSJ4

Omega = SSJ4 x2

I mean, sure. Some of the fights were awesome, and i've missed the point a little, but I just hated how these new forms took over and made everything else that previously happened seem irrelevant and everybody else look weak. They missed out on making moves and techniques the way they used too and relied on new transformations to take care of everything.

In the defense of transformations...

Super Saiyan 2 wasn't something just anyone could do. Gohan did it by accident, but it's questionable as to if he used it in the Boo arc and we know that he wasn't as powerful as he was at the Cell Game by that point. Goku learned it in the Afterlife while he was dead, where apparently maintaining transformations is easier to do. And Vegeta, as far as I can tell, only got it as part of the power boost he got from becoming Majin Vegeta. I'm not even sure if he maintained the ability to go SSj2 or used it much after he blew himself up and came back.

Super Saiyan 3 was a mistake and Goku learned that after he tried using it while alive. So, it's not like it was the magical answer to all of our problems and the only other character who learned to do it was too wild and inefficient about fighting tactics to ever put some serious hurt on Boo.

I can't say anything about Super Saiyan 4, though, because my GT knowledge is sparse at best. To me, it doesn't even count. Sorry.

In the end, regular Super Saiyan was best and and was what was used the majority of the time. Even after 2 and 3 came into the picture. I do agree that the clever tactics and improvised techniques of the old days was something that was missing around the time that those transformations came about, but I don't blame the transformations themselves.

Oolong215 · Post by **Oolong215** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm

Overated: Piccolo vs. 17, Goku vs. Majin Vegeta (both of these have been mentioned)

Underated: Vegeta vs. Zarbon (second time) I love this fight. I don't know why, but it kicks ass.

Xell · Post by **Xell** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:15 pm

Overrated:

SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta

I can't understand why everyone enjoyed this fight so much. Yeah, so it expanded on the manga like everyone wanted it to, but it honestly bored the living hell out of me. It didn't even come close to their first fight.

Underrated:

Kuririn vs. Anyone

People seem to have this strange idea that Kuririn is a weak character, and they're right if they compare him to the Saiyajin characters. But, Kuririn really does come through in hard times (Nappa for example! He held his own right there). I guess I'm just a sucker for the underdog.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:23 pm

Underrated: Goku vs. Cell
Overrated: Gohan vs. Cell

Jackal puFF · Post by **Jackal puFF** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:32 pm

overrated

Everybody versus Frieza.

I seriously hate him and all the fights with him. I got so bored looking at the green sky.

underrated

Goku vs majunior in dragonball.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:33 pm

chibi_goten wrote:Gohan vs Recoome

This fight really showed how much stronger Gohan had become, and how much he had changed since the start of the series. He becomes a gutsy little kid who starts to fight for his own beliefs.

Didn't he just get his neck broken?

Kendamu wrote:And Vegeta, as far as I can tell, only got it as part of the power boost he got from becoming Majin Vegeta. I'm not even sure if he maintained the ability to go SSj2 or used it much after he blew himself up and came back.

While it's debatable if Vegeta got SSJ2 on his own (I think he did during the seven years), he did indeed use it after coming back to life. The sparks are missing in the anime, but when Vegeta powers up to fight Kid Buu in the manga, he's surrounded by sparks.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:35 pm

Overrated: Uh...can't I just say I'm too bias?

Underrated: Pretty much anything from the first 16 volumes, espicially those that couple of fights. The final of the 23rd Tenka'ichi is just an amazement to watch, a perfect mixed of hand to hand with ki blasts.

kusakun004 · Post by **kusakun004** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:36 pm

Overrated

Goku vs. Freeza

Underrated

Anything in the Buu arc and GT

Kanzenshuu

Most overrated and underrated fights

Most overrated and underrated fights

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