Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:42 pm

This isn't the GT Pan, this Pan is just an older version of the Pan from the end of the Manga and DBZ Anime. Besides, Naruto isn't the only Shônen character to earn strength through hard work, you know.

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jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:40 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Pan is not Naruto and she is far from a nice she is annoying. Kuririn’s and #18’s daughter is a nice girl. Now that would have been an interesting twist if they had made Maron (sp?) a fighter.

What, is Naruto the measuring stick for shonen characters or something? Tons of characters in shonen manga got better from trying hard - Yusuke, Kuwabara, Luffy, etc.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:08 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:She does not deserve it because First the official material says that she cannot achieve that form, if Saligir and the gang had recognized GT then they could have gotten away with it but as we know they do not. Second, she is a member of the Son family who get all the cool stuff and she is annoying. Concerning those fights the Saiyan “Kakarrot” does not count as a member of the Son family.

This logic doesn't make much sense to me. You're saying that by not including GT in their fan story, they shouldn't be allowed to do something that goes against the Daizenshuu. That makes some sense to me, except that it's a fan comic and they can do whatever they want. But if they had included GT, then it would be completely okay?

So GT is allowed to break the rules, but a fan comic isn't?

and she is far from a nice she is annoying.

Vegeta is far from nice, but you always say that he 'deserved' more, even though all things considered he got a lot. Besides that, if GT isn't taken into account, then are you saying she's 'annoying' based completely on her appearance at the end of Z?

Kuririn’s and #18’s daughter is a nice girl. Now that would have been an interesting twist if they had made Maron (sp?) a fighter.

This I agree with.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:09 am

Bussani wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:She does not deserve it because First the official material says that she cannot achieve that form, if Saligir and the gang had recognized GT then they could have gotten away with it but as we know they do not. Second, she is a member of the Son family who get all the cool stuff and she is annoying. Concerning those fights the Saiyan “Kakarrot” does not count as a member of the Son family.
This logic doesn't make much sense to me. You're saying that by not including GT in their fan story, they shouldn't be allowed to do something that goes against the Daizenshuu. That makes some sense to me, except that it's a fan comic and they can do whatever they want. But if they had included GT, then it would be completely okay?

So GT is allowed to break the rules, but a fan comic isn't?

and she is far from a nice she is annoying.

Vegeta is far from nice, but you always say that he 'deserved' more, even though all things considered he got a lot. Besides that, if GT isn't taken into account, then are you saying she's 'annoying' based completely on her appearance at the end of Z?

Kuririn’s and #18’s daughter is a nice girl. Now that would have been an interesting twist if they had made Maron (sp?) a fighter.
This I agree with.

This is the way I see it, when you insert movie characters into the main continuity all you have is a personality to work with. The setting and plot can go into any direction, yet when working with main continuity characters it is different. You have certain aspects of the character such as character development, limitations and so forth that the creative team set in place. You cannot just do anything all willy nilly, you have to keep those things in mind in order to be consistent. In this situation, the creative team limited themselves by rejecting GT. All reference material has to be confined with the Z framework. The sources they can appeal to is the manga, the anime and data books such as the Daizenshuu and SEG etc.

Take my story for example in it Pan, transforms but it is not a full Super Saiyan. In it, she turns Gigi-Super Saiyan. The Daizenshuu states that she cannot turn Super Saiyan it does not state that she cannot go Gigi-Super Saiyan. Since the Saiyan blood is weak one can still access some of that power, then if you borrow something from Yu Yu Hakusho along the lines of the Saiyan blood reawakens every so many generations you can have a Super Saiyan Goku Jr. I borrowed from elsewhere but I did not violate pre-existing rules.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:39 am

I still don't see why it's okay for GT to violate the 'pre existing rules', but not okay for a fan story to do the same. If anything it should be more acceptable for a 'what if' fan comic to do it. You're saying that it was okay for GT to do it, but if fans want to do it, they have to include GT. Or maybe you're saying that fans can't do it at all, and that they can only include things that go against the guides if they're things that GT itself came up with? Why does GT get off the hook?

Saiyan-Professor wrote:In this situation, the creative team limited themselves by rejecting GT. All reference material has to be confined with the Z framework. The sources they can appeal to is the manga, the anime and data books such as the Daizenshuu and SEG etc.

I think you're the only one that thinks that by 'rejecting' GT they've said that they're bound by this specific set of rules. Isn't this just their own version of GT, in a way?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:45 am

Bussani wrote:I still don't see why it's okay for GT to violate the 'pre existing rules', but not okay for a fan story to do the same. If anything it should be more acceptable for a 'what if' fan comic to do it. You're saying that it was okay for GT to do it, but if fans want to do it, they have to include GT. Or maybe you're saying that fans can't do it at all, and that they can only include things that go against the guides if they're things that GT itself came up with? Why does GT get off the hook?

Saiyan-Professor wrote:In this situation, the creative team limited themselves by rejecting GT. All reference material has to be confined with the Z framework. The sources they can appeal to is the manga, the anime and data books such as the Daizenshuu and SEG etc.
I think you're the only one that thinks that by 'rejecting' GT they've said that they're bound by this specific set of rules. Isn't this just their own version of GT, in a way?

Technically GT did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred during the period between when Kakarrot left with Shen Long and the GT Television Special. Anything could have happened some other Saiyans could have came to earth and Pan got with one and the Saiyan blood was strengthened or it could have been something like I imagined in my story.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:09 am

Actually I forgot the Daizenshuu said she could not become SSJ. Still I do not see everything in the Daizenshuu as "gospel". I forget, which Daizenshuu said this?

Anyway on Pan's character, this is a very different Pan then the one from GT as GT is being ignored for this series. I for one enjoy the fact that a female protagonist is getting the spotlight for once. Just enjoy the story!

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:42 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Technically GT did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred during the period between when Kakarrot left with Shen Long and the GT Television Special. Anything could have happened some other Saiyans could have came to earth and Pan got with one and the Saiyan blood was strengthened or it could have been something like I imagined in my story.

I'll fix that:

Technically DB:M did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred after the period between when Kakarrot left with Oob (especially if DBGT is not included in the storyline). Anything could have happened.
So there. For you finding all these possibilites and "plausible" reasons for things going the way they did in GT is because of that you like it, simply, whilst the differences can be explained way easier in DB:M.

There is nothing "crazy" with Pan going SSJ. It's in the blood, and if you go by science, a trait can be inherited if it's dominant, so in DB:M, the Super Saiya-jin gene is dominant, which is why all the Saiya-jins were capable of reaching it.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:36 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Bussani wrote:I still don't see why it's okay for GT to violate the 'pre existing rules', but not okay for a fan story to do the same. If anything it should be more acceptable for a 'what if' fan comic to do it. You're saying that it was okay for GT to do it, but if fans want to do it, they have to include GT. Or maybe you're saying that fans can't do it at all, and that they can only include things that go against the guides if they're things that GT itself came up with? Why does GT get off the hook?

Saiyan-Professor wrote:In this situation, the creative team limited themselves by rejecting GT. All reference material has to be confined with the Z framework. The sources they can appeal to is the manga, the anime and data books such as the Daizenshuu and SEG etc.
I think you're the only one that thinks that by 'rejecting' GT they've said that they're bound by this specific set of rules. Isn't this just their own version of GT, in a way?
Technically GT did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred during the period between when Kakarrot left with Shen Long and the GT Television Special. Anything could have happened some other Saiyans could have came to earth and Pan got with one and the Saiyan blood was strengthened or it could have been something like I imagined in my story.

Fffff-

That's a huge stretch, but I guess it's possible. Vegeta Jr would have to be in the same boat, of course. And there would have to be more than just 1 Saiyajin in the blood line, or it would have to be introduced in a generation further down the line, or Goku Jr would still be less than 1/4 Saiyajin.

Of course, that has nothing to do with them including GT or not.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:30 am

Not to mention that, since this is a Pan from another universe, it is entirely possible for her to be able to reach SSJ and our Pan not be able to, since things are a bit different.

That alone succeeds in making the manga not break any rules.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:32 am

Wojak wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Technically GT did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred during the period between when Kakarrot left with Shen Long and the GT Television Special. Anything could have happened some other Saiyans could have came to earth and Pan got with one and the Saiyan blood was strengthened or it could have been something like I imagined in my story.
I'll fix that:

Technically DB:M did not out right break a rule; we do not know what occurred after the period between when Kakarrot left with Oob (especially if DBGT is not included in the storyline).

There is no Oob. This is the Pan of Vegetto's timeline, where Vegetto killed Majin Boo himself instead of freeing everyone else. Therefore we don't know what happened since that fight. Maybe Gohan got himself a Saiyan girlfriend instead of Videl? Sure, unlikely, but hey, anything's possible

EDIT: Also, the shocked look that "our" Pan had when that Pan turned Super Saiyan pretty much shows that "our" Pan can't transform.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:05 am

Puto wrote:There is no Oob. This is the Pan of Vegetto's timeline, where Vegetto killed Majin Boo himself instead of freeing everyone else. Therefore we don't know what happened since that fight. Maybe Gohan got himself a Saiyan girlfriend instead of Videl? Sure, unlikely, but hey, anything's possible

EDIT: Also, the shocked look that "our" Pan had when that Pan turned Super Saiyan pretty much shows that "our" Pan can't transform.

Well we already know that Gohan and Videl are Pan's parents in that universe so obviously Son Gohan did not get "a Saiyan girlfriend". I also which know exactly what Daizenshuu Akira Toriyama said that Pan could not become SSJ. I heard Mr. Toriyama admitted that the answer he gave was simply to hid the real reason he never drew a female Super Saiyan . . . because he did not know how to.

Also remember how hard it was for Gohan to become a Super Saiyan? Perhaps "our" Pan cannot yet transform in DB: Multiverse. Again, not because it is beyond her potential but because unlike her counterpart, "our" Pan never trained enough.

Again, this is all very interesting but the issue was never set in stone according to the source material (manga OR anime). It's a what-if many fans have dreamed about, which is exactly what this doujinshi is all about. It is not beyond the realm of possibility unlike say . . . Piccolo turning into an Oozaru.

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:56 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
KaiserNeko wrote:Personally, I find absolutely *nothing wrong* with Pan going SSJ.

Why? Because ultimately, there should be absolutely no reason she shouldn't be allowed to besides the Daizenshuu. While they are official info books, it's a single detail that most people don't ever pay attention to and, further, it's still debatable on whether or not Toriyama really acknowledges the "quarter-Saiyan" argument as fact.

Pan deserves this, plain and simple.

May I ask why she deserves this?

Because she's the one of the two only female Saiyan in the ENTIRE show, yet she can't be up there with the boys because of some lame factoid about quarter-blood Saiyans? I'm sorry, no, she deserves it. Especially since, unlike Bra, she actually did focus on learning martial arts. Of course, I am curious to see fighting-Bra in action as well.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm

Bussani wrote:...
Fffff-

That's a huge stretch, but I guess it's possible. Vegeta Jr would have to be in the same boat, of course. And there would have to be more than just 1 Saiyajin in the blood line, or it would have to be introduced in a generation further down the line, or Goku Jr would still be less than 1/4 Saiyajin.

Of course, that has nothing to do with them including GT or not.

Well if you go by that rumor about Toriyama’s position on the matter of where Vegeta Jr., came from that Herms and others discussed awhile ago you have Trunk’s and Tenshinhan’s daughter’s descendents getting together with Bra’s descendents to produce Vegeta Jr. Now if some more Saiyan blood was introduced on Pan’s side then Goku Jr., turning Super Saiyan could have happened without Pan getting the transformation.

Maphisto86 wrote:...I also which know exactly what Daizenshuu Akira Toriyama said that Pan could not become SSJ. I heard Mr. Toriyama admitted that the answer he gave was simply to hid the real reason he never drew a female Super Saiyan . . . because he did not know how to. ...

There are two questions that have to asked, which comment proceeded the other and which is more official? The real world answer is that Toriyama could not figure how a female Super Saiyan would look but the official in universe answer is that her blood is too diluted, since we are focusing on in universe things that one holds sway.

KaiserNeko wrote:...Because she's the one of the two only female Saiyan in the ENTIRE show, yet she can't be up there with the boys because of some lame factoid about quarter-blood Saiyans? I'm sorry, no, she deserves it. Especially since, unlike Bra, she actually did focus on learning martial arts. Of course, I am curious to see fighting-Bra in action as well.

Hmm, she focused on it because of that nut job grandfather of her’s most likely influenced her, when Son Gohan was young and he did not have that influence around him because of Chi-Chi he did not go all ‘I want to be Bruce Lee’ on them. The Daizenshuu itself states that ½ Saiyans are not all that enthused about fighting. Therefore, what do you think a 3 or 4 year old ¼ Saiyan would want to do? At the end of the day, a Super Saiyan Bra is more believable than Pan.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:31 pm

I dunno, Pan seemed pretty happy to be training with Goku and entering the Budokai to me.

Pan was set up at the end of the manga as essentially a female mini-Goku. Even in just the two short chapters we saw her, it was easy to tell she found martial arts a LOT more fun than her dad or Goten ever did.

And this foolishness about the Daizenshuu is pointless. The lame "diluted blood" excuse was referring to GT Pan, to make up for Toei's stupid writing. DBM is ignoring GT, and basing their characters strictly off the manga and movies. GT has nothing to do with it.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:04 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:At the end of the day, a Super Saiyan Bra is more believable than Pan.

Except for the fact that Bra shows absolutely no interest in fighting whatsoever and, were an event so cataclysmic as to be able to cause the SSJ transformation, she would have nowhere near the required Ki to transform.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:55 pm

NEW PAGE:

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:06 pm

Oh hell yeah.

This is finally showing more promise...

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:16 pm

Oh wow.

This Pan kicks ass.

No wonder, either. Just a natural side effect of being from Vegetto's universe. All that constantly-radiated essence of "raw awesome" starts rubbing off on you.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:16 pm

Meh, I've never cared for the Daizenhuu, sure they have some nice art and stuff, but I never took it as official. Plus nothing in the manga is stated so, to me she can become a SSJ