Let's have 7 disks instead of 6...email FUNi!

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:04 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Now I know that this is tailored for sub fans, but you have to realize that they're still advertising in America, so making sure that everything can still be understood by fans without needing to go to subs is necessary. So I think they should still use alternate angles, with the Dub angle as secondary, obviously.

Or they could just implement two sub tracks. One for the titles and vocals and one for both titles/vocals and the dialogue.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:09 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Now I know that this is tailored for sub fans, but you have to realize that they're still advertising in America, so making sure that everything can still be understood by fans without needing to go to subs is necessary. So I think they should still use alternate angles, with the Dub angle as secondary, obviously.
Or they could just implement two sub tracks. One for the titles and vocals and one for both titles/vocals and the dialogue.

That would be good. I'd love to see something as close to, "We didn't change a damn thing," as possible.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:11 pm

Kendamu wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Now I know that this is tailored for sub fans, but you have to realize that they're still advertising in America, so making sure that everything can still be understood by fans without needing to go to subs is necessary. So I think they should still use alternate angles, with the Dub angle as secondary, obviously.
Or they could just implement two sub tracks. One for the titles and vocals and one for both titles/vocals and the dialogue.
That would be good. I'd love to see something as close to, "We didn't change a damn thing," as possible.

You're taking it literally again. Adding an alternate angle so people watching the dub can see the dub title card =/= changing it.

In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:13 pm

They are talking video wise.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:14 pm

And how is adding an alternate angle changing the video?

I mean, hell, for the Cha-La intro they can just use the textless master as an alternate angle, although wouldn't be as necessary as the title cards.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:20 pm

But why make an alternate angle when a secondary subtitle track with subs only for the cards and vocals would be less space?

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:25 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better

You mean like the subs have been screwed with english title cards in the GT season sets to save space and preserve the bitrate?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:28 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better

Well... It kinda would...

But yes, no Alternate Angles at all. That is more information that they have to stick on the discs and it's Against the Idea of "Not changing a damn thing".

Japanese Title cards plus a "Sign-Subtitle" only track that shows what the Title cards and signs show.

Sorry, but we're getting to the point where getting a good solid bitrate on these discs is a MUST.
Alternate Angles and three Audio tracks really screws that. The only data on these discs that doesn't take up an epic amount of discspace is a subtitles track, so if they can accomplish this with that, it'd be better.

Besides, the Japanese episode titles trump the English ones anyway.''

Sorry, but Sub-fans have been getting Limbs chopped off by FUNi for 13 Years now and we've been gritting our teeth through it all.

Now, the dub fans are getting skimmed Knees and are crying about it.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:29 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better

That's because we either don't like the dub or we just don't care about it. The majority of us would be completely happy if they just gave us the episodes with subs and called it a day. That's why we don't see eye-to-eye with you about things like having two dub tracks.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:33 pm

DemonRin wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better
Well... It kinda would...

But yes, no Alternate Angles at all. That is more information that they have to stick on the discs and it's Against the Idea of "Not changing a damn thing".

Japanese Title cards plus a "Sign-Subtitle" only track that shows what the Title cards and signs show.

Sorry, but we're getting to the point where getting a good solid bitrate on these discs is a MUST.
Alternate Angles and three Audio tracks really screws that. The only data on these discs that doesn't take up an epic amount of discspace is a subtitles track, so if they can accomplish this with that, it'd be better.

Besides, the Japanese episode titles trump the English ones anyway.

Yeah, I'm thinking original Japanese with sub alone should be enough. I have never understood the concept of alternate angle for Dragon Ball TV series. I was so disappointed that GT Season sets didn't have proper Japanese title cards and next episode previews. Since, they said they "aren't going to change a darn thing", I really hope they stick it to their word and do it.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:34 pm

Kendamu wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better
That's because we either don't like the dub or we just don't care about it. The majority of us would be completely happy if they just gave us the episodes with subs and called it a day. That's why we don't see eye-to-eye with you about things like having two dub tracks.

Exactly, two dub tracks is dumb to me. It takes up unnecessary space on the disc that could be used to make the video Bitrate better.

Sorry, but Take EVERY SINGLE OTHER SERIES that FUNimation has dubbed. Here's 4 Examples.
Yu Yu Hakusho
Fullmetal Alchemist
Dragon Ball (Not Z or GT)
and One Piece

What do they all have in common? They KEEP THE ORIGINAL JAPANESE SCORE!!

That's industry standard nowadays, changing a score is seen as taboo, and is only done on Series' that are only getting an edited Dub-only release.

FUNimation is obviously trying to bring DBZ up to the industry Standard by making the 5.1 Mixed track the Japanese Music Track.
Plus, lets think about this Logically.

They have 2 Dub tracks currently mixed and ready to roll out
One is Already done and mixed in 5.1 in the can. It's the Japanese Music track
The other is only in 2.0 Stereo, it's the Faulconer track.

If they only use one Dub track, the one that's already mixed and set in 5.1 is the obvious choice. not from a Preference standpoint, but from an ease of production standpoint.

Sorry, but FUNi is finally fixing the mistakes they made with DBZ. LET THEM!

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:46 pm

DemonRin wrote:Besides, the Japanese episode titles trump the English ones anyway.

Opinions don't count as fact.

While I personally think that the Japanese title cards suit the show much better, there's definitely something to be said for the brevity that their English counterparts provide. Sometimes the theme of an episode is demonstrated more clearly and effectively with a to-the-point title like "Freeza Defeated" or "Spirit Bomb Triumphant" when compared to the original's (charming) "Exclamatory remark!! Additional sentence to elaborate on it" format . . . although mind you, this is only when the English cards don't take strange liberties with the original titles.

~Da Lemmy

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:49 pm

My letter to FUNi

Dear FUNimation,

First let me say, I'm a big fan of yours. With the exception of one of your properties, I think you've always handled every single series you've ever gotten with the best possible care and detail. In fact, when you guys got One Piece and did such an Amazing Job on it, I went out and bought the first FUNimation DVD I could find, since One Piece was airing on TV and no DVDs were out for it, JUST to thank you for the wonderful Job you guys were doing on One Piece.

But again, I mentioned that One of your properties I've been severely disappointed with over the years, and that's the Dragon Ball Franchise. for some reason, it seemed impossible for you guys to release a Dragon Ball DVD release that didn't fundamentally anger at least one part of the Fanbase. Whether it be canceling the 4:3 Singles release before anyone could finish their collection, or the "widescreen" treatment that the Season sets got.

Finally however, it appears with the Dragon Boxes, you guys may very well erase that black spot on your record! and it has me excited... a Bit sad I have to buy this whole series AGAIN, but still very very happy. But something a few of us in the fanbase are a bit fearful of is the video Bitrate. The Japanese version of the Dragon Box has the first 42 Episodes on Seven Discs rather than the Seven Episodes on Six discs that you guys are set to offer. This is what they felt preserved the quality of the video properly, and they didn't have to worry about fitting multiple audio tracks, subtitles, or Angles onto their discs.

We DB fans see this as being your chance to FINALLY do a perfect release of Dragon Ball, so I was hoping we could convince you to simply up the disc count per set to Seven instead of Six. It's only one disc, and it would make a WORLD of difference I think. plus, that makes the disc count fall in line EXACTLY with the Japanese release, which adds to the whole promise made at Otakon of "We Didn't change a damn thing!".

Thank you for your time,
A DB fan.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:49 pm

Yeah, but the fact that those title cards being more clear and such is just your opinion. My opinion is that the longer title cards give a more descriptive idea of what's going on and, because of that, they're more clear.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:52 pm

DemonRin wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:In the past few days, I'm noticing that all of you are pretty much implying that completely screwing the dub would make this release better
Well... It kinda would...

But yes, no Alternate Angles at all. That is more information that they have to stick on the discs and it's Against the Idea of "Not changing a damn thing".

Japanese Title cards plus a "Sign-Subtitle" only track that shows what the Title cards and signs show.

Sorry, but we're getting to the point where getting a good solid bitrate on these discs is a MUST.
Alternate Angles and three Audio tracks really screws that. The only data on these discs that doesn't take up an epic amount of discspace is a subtitles track, so if they can accomplish this with that, it'd be better.

Besides, the Japanese episode titles trump the English ones anyway.''

Sorry, but Sub-fans have been getting Limbs chopped off by FUNi for 13 Years now and we've been gritting our teeth through it all.

Now, the dub fans are getting skimmed Knees and are crying about it.

You guys used to cry about the old releases all the time and we were never this condescending to you.

ALL of the previous DBZ releases had alternate angles and two title cards. That includes the last 3 season sets, which had excellent quality.

ALL of them had the Japanese audio.

ALL of them had subtitles.

You guys weren't slighted at all when it came to the Japanese version. It's just that there was also a dub that you didn't like alongside of it. And now since Funi isn't giving it as much attention, you're acting like it's some big victory. As far as video quality goes, you suffered as much as we did. Quit acting like you guys have been victims for the past few years.

US DUB FANS HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS RELEASE FOR YEARS TOO.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:54 pm

Kendamu wrote:Yeah, but the fact that those title cards being more clear and such is just your opinion. My opinion is that the longer title cards give a more descriptive idea of what's going on and, because of that, they're more clear.

True. It's all very subjective.

On a similar note (and not that I'm blaming you personally for this, Kendamu), I'm troubled by the fact that this became yet another instance of sub vs. dub so friggin' quickly. I can see where it came from, but at the same time a lot of this feel like padding. Isn't there a way to keep opinions out of it and argue pure facts?

~Da Lemmy

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:55 pm

Kendamu wrote:Yeah, but the fact that those title cards being more clear and such is just your opinion. My opinion is that the longer title cards give a more descriptive idea of what's going on and, because of that, they're more clear.

Original Dragon Ball title cards did not have more than one sentence until DBZ started. I know DB has had the two sentence title cards much later in the series but the two-sentence title cards were more familiar in DBZ than DB.

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:57 pm

Why stop at one extra disc? Why not demand blu-ray?

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:00 pm

Commander_Red wrote:Why stop at one extra disc? Why not demand blu-ray?

More expensive. I'm sure most of them can't afford Blu-Ray version of Dragon Box. Some hardcore fans don't own Blu-Ray player.

kusakun004 · Post by **kusakun004** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:01 pm

I'm not so sure if adding ONE 25 minute episode to a disc will make that much of a difference, as long as FUNi makes these dual-layered DVDs. Pioneer/Geneon's old Tenchi Muyo OVA set included discs that are about the same, if not longer, amount of time as these new sets and those sets looked great. No visual or audio problems at all with its two audio tracks and two subtitle tracks. If FUNi does this right it might even work out with the six disc sets. However, I don't want a six month delay because they had to scrap the DVDs they already made and have to recreate them.