Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:01 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:
Pain wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote: If Super Saiyan 3 put strain on Gotenks, who was fused via Potara and then defused, it could have adverse effects on Vegetto. Vegetto's fusion won't run out of time like Gotenks, so is it possible that he would just tire drastically quick, perhaps faster than Gotenks. Plus, his Super Saiyan 3 transformation would be much stronger, so could it mean death?
Gotenks? Via Patora? Whatever you say, captain.
It's not my fault! I was thinking about 2 different people fused different ways. I got them mixed up.

Don't worry, Toriyama would do the same.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:02 pm

I don't understand why it would put any more of a strain on Vegetto than it did Goku. Yeah, both Goku and Gotenks had a hard time staying that way for a while, but they weren't as powerful or smart as Vegetto. Why would it cause Vegetto more trouble than Goku?

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:10 pm

Vegetto's Super Saiyan 3 would have considerably more energy than either Gotenks' or Goku's version. Based on comments by charcters like Freeza, Goku, and Gotenks, I take it that bodies can only handle so much power for a long time. Specifically in the case of Freeza, it seems as though too much power for a long time can be harmful, if the being isn't suited to it.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:15 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:Vegetto's Super Saiyan 3 would have considerably more energy than either Gotenks' or Goku's version. Based on comments by charcters like Freeza, Goku, and Gotenks, I take it that bodies can only handle so much power for a long time. Specifically in the case of Freeza, it seems as though too much power for a long time can be harmful, if the being isn't suited to it.

That's what I'm saying though. Vegetto is suited because he's the most powerful character in the series. He has more strength, knowledge, and experience than Goku. If the transformation has a consistent multiplier and isn't based on individual variables, then how can Vegetto's take more energy than Goku's? I don't think it can.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:26 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:Vegetto's Super Saiyan 3 would have considerably more energy than either Gotenks' or Goku's version. Based on comments by charcters like Freeza, Goku, and Gotenks, I take it that bodies can only handle so much power for a long time. Specifically in the case of Freeza, it seems as though too much power for a long time can be harmful, if the being isn't suited to it.
That's what I'm saying though. Vegetto is suited because he's the most powerful character in the series. He has more strength, knowledge, and experience than Goku. If the transformation has a consistent multiplier and isn't based on individual variables, then how can Vegetto's take more energy than Goku's? I don't think it can.

Vegetto still only has a Saiyan body, and half of it is Vegeta. I don't mean to belittle Vegeta, but his body never even experienced Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta is the weakest link in the chain when it comes to that transformation. Initially, I think that the transformation would be too much for Vegetto. Though, after time, I do think that he could grow to fully master it and withstand it for hours.

mattymoron · Post by **mattymoron** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:28 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:Vegetto's Super Saiyan 3 would have considerably more energy than either Gotenks' or Goku's version. Based on comments by charcters like Freeza, Goku, and Gotenks, I take it that bodies can only handle so much power for a long time. Specifically in the case of Freeza, it seems as though too much power for a long time can be harmful, if the being isn't suited to it.
That's what I'm saying though. Vegetto is suited because he's the most powerful character in the series. He has more strength, knowledge, and experience than Goku. If the transformation has a consistent multiplier and isn't based on individual variables, then how can Vegetto's take more energy than Goku's? I don't think it can.
Vegetto still only has a Saiyan body, and half of it is Vegeta. I don't mean to belittle Vegeta, but his body never even experienced Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta is the weakest link in the chain when it comes to that transformation. Initially, I think that the transformation would be too much for Vegetto. Though, after time, I do think that he could grow to fully master it and withstand it for hours.

Yes, but, Vegeta is also DEAD. His body still has those unlimited energy stores to go on, so I doubt it would take too much getting used to for him.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:31 pm

Freeza Heika wrote: Vegetto still only has a Saiyan body, and half of it is Vegeta. I don't mean to belittle Vegeta, but his body never even experienced Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta is the weakest link in the chain when it comes to that transformation. Initially, I think that the transformation would be too much for Vegetto. Though, after time, I do think that he could grow to fully master it and withstand it for hours.

Vegetto is a new entity, I don't think things from his previous... (I don't know, can I call them "hosts"?) hosts will effect him that drastically. To quote Gogeta, "I am neither Goku nor Vegeta".

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:34 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote: Vegetto still only has a Saiyan body, and half of it is Vegeta. I don't mean to belittle Vegeta, but his body never even experienced Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta is the weakest link in the chain when it comes to that transformation. Initially, I think that the transformation would be too much for Vegetto. Though, after time, I do think that he could grow to fully master it and withstand it for hours.
Vegetto is a new entity, I don't think things from his previous... (I don't know, can I call them "hosts"?) hosts will effect him that drastically. To quote Gogeta, "I am neither Goku nor Vegeta".

Well it is fusion. To cite a real world application of fusion, you don't fuse two hydrogen atoms and get something with the properties of lead. That was a nerdy example, but it does get the point across.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:35 pm

mattymoron wrote:Yes, but, Vegeta is also DEAD. His body still has those unlimited energy stores to go on, so I doubt it would take too much getting used to for him.

I'm not sure it actually works this way. There's no evidence. And I don't see half a halo above Vegetto's head. To me it seems more like, "well, Vegeta's dead. But you're not Vegeta, you're someone new. So you're not dead."

But keep in mind that fusion isn't the sum of the two characters, it's far greater. SSJ3 Vegetto wouldn't surprise me. He seems to have the ki, strength and focus to pull it off. Even if he couldn't do it right off the bat, I doubt it would take him long to get to a point where he could.

Edit:

Freeza Heika wrote:Well it is fusion. To cite a real world application of fusion, you don't fuse two hydrogen atoms and get something with the properties of lead. That was a nerdy example, but it does get the point across.

You might if you fuse the hydrogen atoms using magic. Fusion doesn't follow simple logic. If it did we wouldn't end up with characters stronger than the sum of 2 characters.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:54 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:Well it is fusion. To cite a real world application of fusion, you don't fuse two hydrogen atoms and get something with the properties of lead. That was a nerdy example, but it does get the point across.

Toriyama himself stated that Fusion works as a multiplier not an addition. It's not Vegeta + Goku. It's Vegeta X Goku. Even if Vegeta is a weak link, it'd be irrelevant.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:02 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Hell GT Chibi Kakarrot could fight evenly with Vegerot.
I agree with everything you said except for this here. GT itself may be one giant plothole excuse for all kinds of crazy shit to happen, but even considering this, there's just no way in hell that chibi Goku would be any sort of a match for Vegetto-- not even if he transformed all the way to Super Saiyan 3.

If you can provide me with evidence to the contrary, I'd sure as hell like to see it.

~Da Lemmy

Chibi Kakarrot said that Rilld was stronger than Majin Boo, and I seriously doubt he meant the fat one. At the very least Kidd Boo and Rilld was not even at full power at that point anyway. So if Chibi Kakarrot’s base was somewhere along Super Boo or Kidd Boo combat strength then I know for sure that his Super Saiyan 1 at the most 2 could go toe to toe with Z-level Vegerot or even beat him.

Rocketman wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:It all depends on whether you hold to the manga or anime.
If you get to gush over movie-only Broli, I get to use Base Vegetto's complete dominance of Super Buu.

And what the fuck, man. Vegetto is shown in both manga and anime to be so far beyond Buu fused with Mystic Gohan that he bats him around like a cat with a dead mouse.

How can Broly compare with that AT ALL other than you sticking your fingers in your ears and going LA LA LA LA? If you get to just make up a version of Broly who's that strong, then why do you insist on Vegetto being the canon version instead of a made-p form that's way stronger than your bullshit Broly?

Movie #8, 10 and 11 Brolis at best can be looked at as alternate time line Brolis, we never got to see a main continuity Broli. If he was introduced in the main timeline he would be a wild card. His combat strength could be anywhere so that is why it is not strange for him to show up and give Vegerot a hard time. That is why I do not freak out when he does that with Gogeta in the intros to video games.

Innagadadavida wrote:...What about Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto? It's debatable, but I believe that Vegetto can reach that level of transformation. He has both the knowledge and strength.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that Vegerot is not as strong as many make him out to be; in arguments, everyone always brings up the fact that he could go Super Saiyan 2 or 3. However, there is no evidence that he could unless Herms can provide a quote saying that he could from one of the data books. I know that Vegeta and Kakarrot has the ability to do so but we do not know if the fusion allows them to only go so far as far as transformations are concerned.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:08 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:I know that Vegeta and Kakarrot has the ability to do so but we do not know if the fusion allows them to only go so far as far as transformations are concerned.

We know that potara is better than the fusion dance.
Now, Goten and Trunks reached SSJ3, a state they hadn't reached by themselves, and didn't reach later either. But when fused, they could.
Alas, to think that Vegetto wouldn't reach SSJ3, by knowing how to do so by Goku's memories, would be bizarre.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:21 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:This is one of the reasons why I believe that Vegerot is not as strong as many make him out to be; in arguments, everyone always brings up the fact that he could go Super Saiyan 2 or 3. However, there is no evidence that he could unless Herms can provide a quote saying that he could from one of the data books. I know that Vegeta and Kakarrot has the ability to do so but we do not know if the fusion allows them to only go so far as far as transformations are concerned.

Basic in-universe logic and deductive reasoning is enough. There is no evidence that contradicts his potential other than the fact that he didn't use it. He never needed to.

The same can be said about your Broly.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:34 pm

Well I am waiting for Herms to tell me different until then I am going with he could not go those levels. We are dealing with a form of fusion that only showed one form. As for Broli he is still a wild card, we do not know what he would be like in main continuity that is why I am not saying it is right or wrong to have him go head up with Vegerot.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:36 pm

Main-continuity Broly would probably be 40-year-old space dust.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:46 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Chibi Kakarrot said that Rilld was stronger than Majin Boo, and I seriously doubt he meant the fat one. At the very least Kidd Boo and Rilld was not even at full power at that point anyway. So if Chibi Kakarrot’s base was somewhere along Super Boo or Kidd Boo combat strength then I know for sure that his Super Saiyan 1 at the most 2 could go toe to toe with Z-level Vegerot or even beat him.

There's a huge, huge HUUUUUUUUGE gap between even the strongest form of Buu (Gohan-absorbed) and Vegetto. If Goku was referring to Kid or Fat Buu, or even Mister Buu, the gap widens even more.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that Vegerot is not as strong as many make him out to be; in arguments, everyone always brings up the fact that he could go Super Saiyan 2 or 3.

That's because of twits like you who can't accept a standard Super Saiyan as the most powerful being in all of Dragonball (save for SSJ4 Gogeta).

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:11 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Chibi Kakarrot said that Rilld was stronger than Majin Boo, and I seriously doubt he meant the fat one. At the very least Kidd Boo and Rilld was not even at full power at that point anyway. So if Chibi Kakarrot’s base was somewhere along Super Boo or Kidd Boo combat strength then I know for sure that his Super Saiyan 1 at the most 2 could go toe to toe with Z-level Vegerot or even beat him.
There's a huge, huge HUUUUUUUUGE gap between even the strongest form of Buu (Gohan-absorbed) and Vegetto. If Goku was referring to Kid or Fat Buu, or even Mister Buu, the gap widens even more.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that Vegerot is not as strong as many make him out to be; in arguments, everyone always brings up the fact that he could go Super Saiyan 2 or 3.
That's because of twits like you who can't accept a standard Super Saiyan as the most powerful being in all of Dragonball (save for SSJ4 Gogeta).

I still believe that base Chibi Kakarrot and even base Vegeta can go toe to toe with Boo’s strongest form. Then in turn, they could beat him when they would transform, one of the points expressed in GT was they the main characters surpassed all the stuff we saw in Z. Oh yeah I will let you pass on the “twit” comment this time but if it happens, again I will just go ahead and call you an ignoramus.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:20 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote: I still believe that base Chibi Kakarrot and even base Vegeta can go toe to toe with Boo’s strongest form. Then in turn, they could beat him when they would transform, one of the points expressed in GT was they the main characters surpassed all the stuff we saw in Z. Oh yeah I will let you pass on the “twit” comment this time but if it happens, again I will just go ahead and call you an ignoramus.

According to GT, Krillin could defeat Buu with ease!

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:28 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Oh yeah I will let you pass on the “twit” comment this time but if it happens, again I will just go ahead and call you an ignoramus.

Aw hecksy na, shit just got real!!

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:31 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Oh yeah I will let you pass on the “twit” comment this time but if it happens, again I will just go ahead and call you an ignoramus.
Aw hecksy na, shit just got real!!

Who brought the popcorn?