Question To People Who Prefer The Original Japanese Version

[DOOODGE]

Before I say anything, I want to emphasize that this question is not cynnical nor confrontational. Just some curiosity that would like to be satisfied. Also, I'm very familiar with both the English and the Japanese dubs of Dragon Ball Z, so feel free to make any references to either that you wish.

My question is for people who prefer the original Japanese version: why do you care about the English dub?

It's easy to read that question cynically, so I want to stress again that this isn't me being confrontational, merely curious. I'm curious because, since the the Japanese version, legally subtitled in English, is now widely available on DVD (and has been for some time)...why do you care about the English dub? Why do you care about blasting it? The version you like is available to you, so shouldn't that be the end of the rather hostile reactions I've seen towards the dub? Also, if I may go into "Assumption Mode," I have a feeling that even if the original music was used from the get-go, and a loyal script was put in place a la the three uncut movies done by Geneon...that you guys would still say the dub is terrible and just watch the Japanese version.

I could very easily be wrong, though. Am I? Please discuss in as civil a manner as possible.

PS: Sorry about a grammar error that I have just corrected...we'll just pretend it never happened...lol.

[Raki]

If the dub was more faithful to the original and it had the original score, I'd probably watch that. But all things aside, I care nothing about the English dub. My only problem with it is that it's how the the rest of the world(anime fans and non fans alike) see Dragonball Z.

[Freeza Heika]

First off, I like both versions; the dub purely for nostalgia and the original for the quality. Though, I do slightly prefer the original. With that said, I think the reason that most people who prefer the original dislike the dub is best explained by the metaphor that I'm about to pull out of my ass:

Let's say you live an a very affluent neighborhood, and your house and the adjacent houses are all worth millions of dollars. Then, after living there for a few years, someone moves in next door. They seem like a nice guy, but you soon discover that they aren't "all there". They decide that they want to paint their house lime green and put out Christmas decorations in July. You kindly ask them not to do so. They agree; the next day, you look outside to see a bright yellow house with Halloween decorations. How do you think that this affects your property value?

That was a little convoluted, but I think the meaning is there.

Essentially Funimation's less than perfect dub gives a bad image to the series as a whole. Just look for instances of people only vaguely familiar with the show discussing its faults. Many of the common points are purely from the dub.

[VegettoEX]

(1) I care about FUNimation's English dub because its existence affects the way I receive domestic releases of the product... which includes the original Japanese version. While you can separate "their dub" from "their production", the fact remains that FUNimation is the distributor in the country I live in, and the cheapest version of the series available to me is theirs. What they produce affects me in every way (directly and indirectly).

(We covered this a little bit more in personal detail on the most recent podcast episode, as well as our big feature.)

(2) I like to fight the good fight. People deserve an honest, accurate, and faithful version of the show... don't they?

(3) Its mis-information (intentional or otherwise) affects everyone. We constantly have to deal with correcting falsities that almost always come from a FUNimation-dub-influenced fan. That's not to say that fans and producers of other versions don't give us the same problem (France and its "twins" line, for example)... but in all honesty, it's the FUNimation dub that poses the biggest series of problems.

Also, if I may go into "Assumption Mode," I have a feeling that even if the original music was used from the get-go, and a loyal script was put in place a la the three uncut movies done by Geneon...that you guys would still say the dub is terrible and just watch the Japanese version.

False.

We did receive that accurate dub at one point in time, and those of us from that era continue to hold up that production as what we would have loved to have continued to receive and hold up alongside the original Japanese version as at least a somewhat comparable version:

The FUNimation/Pioneer joint production of DBZ movies 1-3.

Exactly like you just said.

There would be a significantly less-split, English-speaking fanbase if this just continued as-is. It would have succeeded on its own merits... just as it did in nearly every other country it became a sensation in.

At the end of the day, though, you're right. FUNimation and their English dub does absolutely nothing to replace the original Japanese version. It will always be there. I will always love it. Nothing can take it away from me.

At the same time... we should be allowed to discuss and theorize about these types of things, just as you've started up, and from all sides. That's what makes fandom so intriguing...!

[TheGreatness25]

I personally look at it as two different series really. I mean the animation is the same, and like it or not, the dialog is practically the same. The only times the dub really strays from the original is in either jokes or little scenes that wouldn't affect anything anyway. Other than that, the dub is generally faithful, aside from throwing in some American pop culture stuff like "bro" and things like that.

The dub kind of made it their own show though with the music dictating a different direction than the original Japanese, but there has to be an understanding as to why they did that to begin with I think.

It isn't a secret that the rules for television when DBZ was first brought over to the US were different than now. That's why we had the blood and stuff like that taken out. Not just because FUNimation was crazy and so ridiculously kid-friendly, but because that was what was required from them. Children's programing was not allowed to show or make references towards death, couldn't have blood, etc. And like it or not, that was the way that DBZ was brought over to begin with, as a children's show. If not, then there would be no DBZ in the US. And if it wasn't so ridiculously censored, it would not be shown anywhere and again, no DBZ in the US. Now, why the music and American adjustments to the characters? To draw audiences' attention. Dragon Ball miserably flopped in the US. Now they changed the music, but you don't know what their basis for doing that was. Maybe Toei didn't even give them the rights to the audio, we'll never know. But as far as DBZ went, they needed to grab an audiences attention, so they did the fast-paced music and things like that. And DBZ took off. But had it not been for all of those things, there would be no DBZ in the US and subsequently, in many places that it later spurred to. And if there was no DBZ in the US, we wouldn't be having ANY conversations over it. Oh, and DBZ was kind of the guinea pig of Anime to see if it would fly in the US. If it wasn't for this show becoming popular in the US many of the Animes that people enjoy today would also not come here because people would see that Anime doesn't work in this country. That's why I can appreciate it for what it was, FUNimation doing everything it can to have the show survive and prosper. Those were the things that made it so.

Now because of its popularity in the US, people looked to the original Japanese and found it to be more heart-warming and deeper (for whatever reason). Many people just have a nostalgia for it, all those years of looking for Japanese things because most of the series didn't even come to the US. I know, I was the same way. I had the Japanese games, I saw a bunch of Japanese stuff and I started really liking that version. But again, FUNimation did what it had to do. Had it not, this Forum wouldn't even exist. I guarantee you that not many people could say that they discovered Japanese DBZ before it came to the US. That would be a stone-faced lie.

So I just look at it as two different shows, one being a heart-warming story which is more mystical, and the other just being a really cool action cartoon show. Did the dub do some things that were wrong? Yes. Did the dub do things that didn't make sense when it came to the original? Yes. But was it all worth it? Oh freaking hell yes. Because now they are basically saying, "hey, you don't like what we did? We're not going to redo the entire show, but here, have what you want, have the original." And that's all I could really ask for.

[VegettoEX]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... TheGreatness25... aren't you a die-hard FUNimation-version fan? I don't know that you can actually answer the question at hand.

You've also gone off with wild speculation and assumptions that don't make any sense...

This forum wouldn't exist if it weren't for FUNimation...? What...? I... guess... you might be able to make some crazy stretch of an argument about that...? That's like saying I wouldn't be "Mike" if my parents didn't get married, though...

[Saiyavenger2941]

(1) I care about FUNimation's English dub because its existence affects the way I receive domestic releases of the product... which includes the original Japanese version. While you can separate "their dub" from "their production", the fact remains that FUNimation is the distributor in the country I live in, and the cheapest version of the series available to me is theirs. What they produce affects me in every way (directly and indirectly).

(We covered this a little bit more in personal detail on the most recent podcast episode, as well as our big feature.)

(2) I like to fight the good fight. People deserve an honest, accurate, and faithful version of the show... don't they?

(3) Its mis-information (intentional or otherwise) affects everyone. We constantly have to deal with correcting falsities that almost always come from a FUNimation-dub-influenced fan. That's not to say that fans and producers of other versions don't give us the same problem (France and its "twins" line, for example)... but in all honesty, it's the FUNimation dub that poses the biggest series of problems.

Also, if I may go into "Assumption Mode," I have a feeling that even if the original music was used from the get-go, and a loyal script was put in place a la the three uncut movies done by Geneon...that you guys would still say the dub is terrible and just watch the Japanese version.

False.

We did receive that accurate dub at one point in time, and those of us from that era continue to hold up that production as what we would have loved to have continued to receive and hold up alongside the original Japanese version as at least a somewhat comparable version:

The FUNimation/Pioneer joint production of DBZ movies 1-3.

Exactly like you just said.

There would be a significantly less-split, English-speaking fanbase if this just continued as-is. It would have succeeded on its own merits... just as it did in nearly every other country it became a sensation in.

At the end of the day, though, you're right. FUNimation and their English dub does absolutely nothing to replace the original Japanese version. It will always be there. I will always love it. Nothing can take it away from me.

At the same time... we should be allowed to discuss and theorize about these types of things, just as you've started up, and from all sides. That's what makes fandom so intriguing...!

Oh man, did you have to link to the rumor guide? That's like a DB TVTropes! I go in for one thing, and end up spending an hour or two soaking up the info. (Despite already reading it before!)

[TheGreatness25]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... TheGreatness25... aren't you a die-hard FUNimation-version fan? I don't know that you can actually answer the question at hand.

Well I like both versions. I just used to really defend the FUNimation version because I still liked it and a lot of people were always kind of tearing it down. That's not to say that I didn't like the original. I wouldn't call myself a Dragon Ball fan if that was the case.

You've also gone off with wild speculation and assumptions that don't make any sense...

What part doesn't make sense? That's basically what it was. Any cartoon from back then dodged death references, blood, etc. Batman, Superman, X-Men, Spider-Man, any shows that came out during that time, despite the fact that those would have a lot of death references if going completely by the comics. It's just basically the history of TV. And why did Dragon Ball flop then? One theory could definitely be because it didn't excite its audience. So they made it more exciting with the music, etc.

This forum wouldn't exist if it weren't for FUNimation...? What...? I... guess... you might be able to make some crazy stretch of an argument about that...? That's like saying I wouldn't be "Mike" if my parents didn't get married, though...

And yeah... A leads to B, leads to C. It makes sense. If DBZ wouldn't be around in the US, you really think that you'd be a fan of it to this extent? It's not about FUNimation, it's about the show taking off in the US. And the reason why it survived here was because of what FUNimation did to it. You look at it as defacing the series, which it did in a lot of ways, but it conformed the series to American kids cartoon standards.

[Raki]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

You've also gone off with wild speculation and assumptions that don't make any sense...

What part doesn't make sense? That's basically what it was. Any cartoon from back then dodged death references, blood, etc. Batman, Superman, X-Men, Spider-Man, any shows that came out during that time, despite the fact that those would have a lot of death references if going completely by the comics. It's just basically the history of TV. And why did Dragon Ball flop then? One theory could definitely be because it didn't excite its audience. So they made it more exciting with the music, etc.

Funimation was quite stupid to put the first 13 episodes up first. Had they shown the 21st World Tournament first, the series would have taken off. The music really didn't needed to be changed either, but that's a whole different discussion.

[Li'l Lemmy]

This forum wouldn't exist if it weren't for FUNimation...? What...? I... guess... you might be able to make some crazy stretch of an argument about that...? That's like saying I wouldn't be "Mike" if my parents didn't get married, though...

And yeah... A leads to B, leads to C. It makes sense. If DBZ wouldn't be around in the US, you really think that you'd be a fan of it to this extent? It's not about FUNimation, it's about the show taking off in the US. And the reason why it survived here was because of what FUNimation did to it. You look at it as defacing the series, which it did in a lot of ways, but it conformed the series to American kids cartoon standards.

You're confusing one thing for another.

The existence of this forum is not necessarily predicated on how much of a success DragonBall Z was in our country. The show could have been a total flop, ended up dubbed only partway through and never had a release beyond the original FUNimation DVD singles, and we would still exist. Fans of a series will always converge with other fans, and super-fans of the Japanese version won't necessarily have less of an enthusiasm for the show if its accompanying dub is/isn't faithful, successful, etc-- hell, there's even a chance that it would have strengthened our alliance with the material even moreso.

For these people, the dub is entirely irrelevant toward their affection for the original. It's only necessity for them is how it affects A) domestic releases and B) the overall image of the series.

Someone feel free to call me off on this if I'm wrong.


~Da Lemmy

[TheGreatness25]

You can't be fans of the original if you don't know about the one shown in your country. If you didn't like DBZ in the US, would you really go and look up the Japanese version? And fans today have much more access to the Japanese shows that didn't even come to the US yet. First there's more access, second there is more interest in seeking out gems like that before they even get to the US. But had DBZ been a total disaster, I doubt anyone would go, "Hey! Let's check out the Japanese version! WOW! It's soo good!"

[Freeza Heika]

You can't be fans of the original if you don't know about the one shown in your country. If you didn't like DBZ in the US, would you really go and look up the Japanese version? And fans today have much more access to the Japanese shows that didn't even come to the US yet. First there's more access, second there is more interest in seeking out gems like that before they even get to the US. But had DBZ been a total disaster, I doubt anyone would go, "Hey! Let's check out the Japanese version! WOW! It's soo good!"

Regardless of whether or not DBZ was popular in the US, the internet would still have come into vogue and it still would have been hugely successful in Japan and many other countries. Eventually, many of us would have found the original or maybe another countries dub, and we would have formed a strong fan base. Funimation just made everything speed up.

[Raki]

You can't be fans of the original if you don't know about the one shown in your country. If you didn't like DBZ in the US, would you really go and look up the Japanese version? And fans today have much more access to the Japanese shows that didn't even come to the US yet. First there's more access, second there is more interest in seeking out gems like that before they even get to the US. But had DBZ been a total disaster, I doubt anyone would go, "Hey! Let's check out the Japanese version! WOW! It's soo good!"

For many of the fans on here, that is the case. I doubt I would have looked up DBZ's Japanese version had I not been a viewer of the Toonami airings. But that isn't the case for people who saw the show via fansubs in the early 90's.

[Li'l Lemmy]

You can't be fans of the original if you don't know about the one shown in your country. If you didn't like DBZ in the US, would you really go and look up the Japanese version? And fans today have much more access to the Japanese shows that didn't even come to the US yet. First there's more access, second there is more interest in seeking out gems like that before they even get to the US. But had DBZ been a total disaster, I doubt anyone would go, "Hey! Let's check out the Japanese version! WOW! It's soo good!"

How does this even make any sense? Yes, FUNimation was pivotal in bringing the brand over, but that doesn't mean it's the only reason people like the show. The FUNimation version, whether it was successful or not, was a disaster, and particularly in the beginning-- the editing was obvious, the performances were subpar and the script was atrocious with or without comparison to the original Japanese! But for those of us who managed to like the show despite these flaws, we researched the original version anyway in researching more about the show. FUNimation didn't come out and say to us, "A better version is out there if you look for it"; we found it ourselves through curiosity and word-of-mouth from other fans.

How would the situation have turned out differently when these factors will always be the same?


~Da Lemmy

[JulieYBM]

I agree a lot with what Mike says. And he's right to 'fight the good fight', after all One Piece fans did and now we've got a release in line with every other release that FUNimation puts out sans the DragonBall franchise, which entails a really damn good dub, the original Japanese with awesome subtitles, and a number of episodes in the double digits per release for but $50 MSRP.

I do have my fond memories of FUNimation's dub. I remember--and thanks in part to research--the first DragonBall Z episode I saw was on Toonami in October 1998. I don't have a schedule for that year to confirm, but I know the episode was the one where Vegeta (this being the Ocean/Saban collabaration) was killing off that village of Namekians for their DragonBalls. I don't remember how my fandom grew from there, but I sure as hell remember the neighborhood kids excitedly talking about promos they saw for a DragonBall Z MOVIE to air. Bare in mind we were all 8-12 years in the nineties and this was THE SHIZZ goin' down. I remember a friend and I awaiting the usual DBZ Toonami intro the day of the film but instead we were met by--for the first time--the Rock the Dragon opening theme. Unanimously, we soiled ourselves. I still have those Ocean dub airings of the films on VHS, damn it!!

After that endless hell of seeing episode one repeat after fifty-three and never seeing what happened to Gokuu and gang on Namek I remember coming across those first two Ginyû tapes, getting the second uncut (and missing those first three episodes of Season Three) and then soiling myself all over again when I saw the violence. From then on I spent the rest of the next two or so years rushing my mom every month's first Tuesday after school to Target or Suncoast to get the new tapes. That is the early years of my fandom.

Now, in my vein attempt at surpassing Kunzait_83, I'll recollect I had dreams days in advance when I was waiting for the Majin Vegeta fight tapes to come out. For a guy who was picked on in school and didn't tend to hangout with peeps much you can call that era the happiest of my childhood. Now, admittedly my fandom died down near the end of the tapes being released (I remember getting the Karate Kid trilogy on the same day I did the first Kid Boo fight tape) and for the longest time I just fell out of DragonBall and into Yu-Gi-Oh! (as you can tell by m' username), but once again, joining this forum just completely revived my fandom, and here I am now, writing this post with a fandom never stronger. Sure, I don't buy all the merchandise, but I'd say 2,000 posts here and on other boards worth of discussing DragonBall certainly counts as something.

Anyhow, I can't stand to watch the dub much anymore. I absolutely adore the actors down as FUNimation as their con/audio commentary personalities and in other roles, but their DragonBall work is simply too dated. I do enjoy playing Sparking METEOR in English, but if I'm playing as or against Freeza I have to immediatly change to the original. Linda Chambers-Young is the bane of my DragonBall existence, as well as that terrible dialogue in the dub. The entire identity FUNimation has built DragonBall in North America is simply grotesque. Some worship it, others loath it, and frankly it's a problem for the fandom because it only further devides.

Nowadays I'm a huuuuuge One Piece fan. I watch the dub when I get each new Voyage, but I also keep up with the Japanese version too, and love it as much as I've come to love the original of DragonBall. FUNimation's record is getting closer each year to finally being perfect and consistent with their line of licenses. I would love nothing more for their dub of DB to be able to stand up there with their dubs of One Piece, FMA, and Seven Samurai, but that's almost impossible. They've got ten years of dub--and even video games--to keep 'consistent'. Not to mention there's the money factor, but even then...with the Dragon Boxes coming out at last what other reason in the next ten or twenty years will FUNimation have to release the series again--this time with a proper dub?

Maybe if dubbing costs go down (HAH!) in a few years FUNimation can advertise some sort of 'New Era' release with a different cast and accurate scripts, but we all know that's not likely. What's the properties future in North America going to look like in ten or twenty years? Will the titles still be on store shelves? Will FUNimation have lost the license to another company? With Toei simply revoke the license and NA will be without DragonBall? What if another company DOES get the title? What will the subtitles look like? Will the Japanese version even be ON a new company's release? What about the dub? Where would it be dubbed? Ocean? Blue Water? Somewhere in LA? Against better judgement, shall they go with some unknown studio in Iowa?? Heck, will it be a union dub?? Do unions even exist in Iowa for acting??!

What about Kai? Will FUNimation keep that in-line with their previous dubs of DragonBall? Will they recast, completely rewrite?? Will the actors just phone in lines they've already recorded a hundred times? How will the title be treated? Thirteen episode boxes? Full on 'saga sets'?? Will it be bare-bones? Will Son Gokû defeat Freeza and escape from Namek??! NOBODY KNOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truly, I am exhausted. Give me an accurate dub, preferably without Ms. Young as Freeza, and Brice Armstrong as narrator and Lord Kaiô, and call it a day. Chances are any future DragonBall home video releases I buy will be watched strictly in Japanese if it's the same old tired nineties Saturday morning Americanized dub. It sucks, but hey...I'll always have fond memories. Right Nappa? Nappa??

NAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAA?!!!!!!!!!!

Code: Select all

[Rod]

I don't care for the English version at all. But I try not to flame everyone who likes it

I honestly think that if growing up I got introduced to the English dub, I probably wouldn't be fan of DB, bad voice acting, and inaccurate script and mispronunciation are the biggest problems for me.

[SonEric84]

Well, I can't speak for others, but one of my main reasons for caring is that even though the original Japanese version is available to watched subbed (and is pretty awesome in itself), it would be nice to have it dubbed properly in my native language. The ocean dubs of Movies 1-3 were pretty damn good. It's unfortunate they didn't treat the whole series that way.

[Budogenkai]

I would definitely purchase the whole franchise again if it were properly dubbed with/or new voice actors and an accurate script.

[Anonymous Friend]

You can't be fans of the original if you don't know about the one shown in your country. If you didn't like DBZ in the US, would you really go and look up the Japanese version? And fans today have much more access to the Japanese shows that didn't even come to the US yet. First there's more access, second there is more interest in seeking out gems like that before they even get to the US. But had DBZ been a total disaster, I doubt anyone would go, "Hey! Let's check out the Japanese version! WOW! It's soo good!"

Regardless of whether or not DBZ was popular in the US, the internet would still have come into vogue and it still would have been hugely successful in Japan and many other countries. Eventually, many of us would have found the original or maybe another countries dub, and we would have formed a strong fan base. Funimation just made everything speed up.

I don't think that many people who were originally introduced to Dragonball Z and disliked it would have given the japanese version a chance. You usually don't give thing a second chance. Maybe if someone else strongly suggested that you do and made you aware of the various "changes".

I think that a lot of people just like to have correct information be known and because the american english dub has "mis-information" and whatnot, they feel the need to have it corrected. Plus the fact that the a lot of people feel that the gap in the quality between the dub and the sub is much wider compared to other releases from the same company really hurts the franchise as a whole. It's just that some need to calm down in their approach to the situation.

[Taku128]

I bash on the English dub (though I don't do it all that often) because people bashing on the dub is what made me give the Japanese version a try. I enjoy it much more then I ever enjoyed the English version, so I try to get other people to try the Japanese version out as well.

Oh, and those name changes affect my video games, and that pisses me off. D:<